The New American Race

[NewYork2016]

Why don't they just "borrow" the plans of a certain failed Canadian city with a similar waterfront, therefore have a technically perfect bid -- and be done with it?

The technically perfect bid from up North baron?   ::

I think it's actually more Eastern than Northern from Chicago.

Anyway, that would be a great bid from Chicago if that was the case. I just don't know how far will that go with Chicagoans as the area has just finished its construction the last time I was there. And the money, where will they get that from? Lake Shore Dr was like Roxas Blvd in the Philippines, and I've heard it was the same architect or architectural company that did those 2 places. It's a nice place to relax, without the great sunset view in Manila from the water though...  ::  :wwww:

[baron-pierreIV]

Sailing:

Milwaukee, to please Wisconsin.

Just supposing: 1. the USOC would consider CHicago and

2. Chicago could get a viable bid together:

WHy would they place sailing in Milwaukee to placate Wisconsin?  I would think this scenic sport would be right at home on Lake Michigan using the Chicago skyline as a backdrop.  Why Milwaukee?  Give say, a field hockey or a basketball prelim to Milwaukee.  

Anyway, all this is pure conjecture at this point.

[ChicagoFan90]

Why don't they just "borrow" the plans of a certain failed Canadian city with a similar waterfront, therefore have a technically perfect bid -- and be done with it?

The technically perfect bid from up North baron?   ::

I think it's actually more Eastern than Northern from Chicago.

Anyway, that would be a great bid from Chicago if that was the case. I just don't know how far will that go with Chicagoans as the area has just finished its construction the last time I was there. And the money, where will they get that from? Lake Shore Dr was like Roxas Blvd in the Philippines, and I've heard it was the same architect or architectural company that did those 2 places. It's a nice place to relax, without the great sunset view in Manila from the water though...  ::  :wwww:

That "perfect bid", used in 2008, could remerge in Chicago using Grant Park, where Soccer, Aquatics at Northerly Island, and many different sports at McCormick Place.

The only rock in the road for this, is where to place the Olympic Stadium, otherwise I'd say probably 85% of the venues could be within 1 mile of the coast.

But for sailing, yes it dosn't make sense for Chicago not to host them, but Milwaukee, who is spending billions to try desperatley to get tourists into the city, would have no problem building a Sailing Village, Sailing Center, and Press Center. Especially after spending over 5 years building Miller Park, and the Calatrava edition to their Art Museum.

[NewYork2016]

Why don't they just "borrow" the plans of a certain failed Canadian city with a similar waterfront, therefore have a technically perfect bid -- and be done with it?

The technically perfect bid from up North baron?   ::

I think it's actually more Eastern than Northern from Chicago.

Anyway, that would be a great bid from Chicago if that was the case. I just don't know how far will that go with Chicagoans as the area has just finished its construction the last time I was there. And the money, where will they get that from? Lake Shore Dr was like Roxas Blvd in the Philippines, and I've heard it was the same architect or architectural company that did those 2 places. It's a nice place to relax, without the great sunset view in Manila from the water though...  ::  :wwww:

That "perfect bid", used in 2008, could remerge in Chicago using Grant Park, where Soccer, Aquatics at Northerly Island, and many different sports at McCormick Place.

The only rock in the road for this, is where to place the Olympic Stadium, otherwise I'd say probably 85% of the venues could be within 1 mile of the coast.

But for sailing, yes it dosn't make sense for Chicago not to host them, but Milwaukee, who is spending billions to try desperatley to get tourists into the city, would have no problem building a Sailing Village, Sailing Center, and Press Center. Especially after spending over 5 years building Miller Park, and the Calatrava edition to their Art Museum.

It would be great for Chicago to have that plan if they'll propose that. Like what I've said on my last post and I'll emphasize it again, how will Chicago pay for that? Would there be willing investors in such a project? That's not what we're hearing from Chicago leaders with these great proposals which could very well spell the very positive impact on a Chicago bid. Instead, they're proposing venues in far flung areas, and proposing to build something on a place owned by an individual.

Specially with the City and State worrying about billions of dollars of deficit expected this fiscal year and next year and building the Most Expensive Stadium in North America, would Chicagoans and Illinois Citizens be willing to pay more taxes to fund these projects?

Like what I've said on another thread. I think almost everyone here is anxious, excited or nervous. Specially with the announcement from the USOC coming anytime soon!  

That's why, we're speculating from press conferences and statements from various City leaders in the USA.  ::

[ChicagoFan90]

It would be great for Chicago to have that plan if they'll propose that. Like what I've said on my last post and I'll emphasize it again, how will Chicago pay for that? Would there be willing investors in such a project? That's not what we're hearing from Chicago leaders with these great proposals which could very well spell the very positive impact on a Chicago bid. Instead, they're proposing venues in far flung areas, and proposing to build something on a place owned by an individual.

Specially with the City and State worrying about billions of dollars of deficit expected this fiscal year and next year and building the Most Expensive Stadium in North America, would Chicagoans and Illinois Citizens be willing to pay more taxes to fund these projects?

Like what I've said on another thread. I think almost everyone here is anxious, excited or nervous. Specially with the announcement from the USOC coming anytime soon!  

That's why, we're speculating from press conferences and statements from various City leaders in the USA.  ::

But, as this is Chicago's first bid, the hometown companies of Chicago, (United, McDonalds,Allstate, Motorola, John Hancock) are just holding their breath to see the bid plan, before they invest in a billion dollar project.

[ChicagoFan90]

Sorry bout the mixup, most of that previous post, is from the post above it, computer error.

[NewYork2016]

But, as this is Chicago's first bid, the hometown companies of Chicago, (United, McDonalds,Allstate, Motorola, John Hancock) are just holding their breath to see the bid plan, before they invest in a billion dollar project.

See that's the problem. It's Chicago's first time to bid and it shows how inexperienced they are.

Would United spend $500 million on an arena by the lake, when they just came out of bankruptcy and already have an arena in Chicago? Would McDonalds be willing to spend $1B on an Olympic Stadium without any use after the games?

The way it worked and still continues to work with NYC, is that the City and State will spend in infrastructure, and NY Metro Area Sports Teams spend for the facility. The facilities itself will cost around $7 billion. Infrastructure will be around $3 billion. Now, where would the City of Chicago and State of Illinois get that money? That's what I'm pointing out.

The facility itself will be paid by corporate sponsors of course, that's the way we finance sports facilities in our country. But the rest will be paid by the corresponding City and State governments. In NY's case, they have and will issue City and State bonds to finance the infrastructure needed. You can basically borrow money if you have the capability of paying it, i.e. budget surpluses and booming economy. Now, Chicago and Illinois will be doing what the Federal Government is doing now if they'll build all new facilities, deficit spending. They will borrow money to cover their spending, expected budget deficit, then borrow money to build the infrastructure. Or, increase taxes.

Honestly, either way, the IOC would wants that. Deficit spending and tax increases. But, would Chicago taxpayers accept the hit, specially Chicagoans already are the highest taxed in the nation?

[NewYork2016]

Sorry bout the mixup, most of that previous post, is from the post above it, computer error.

It's ok...  

[lpatron]

I'm not sure where you're getting your info, but let me set a few things straight:

Chicago has a balanced budget, according to the City's website, where the 2006 budget can be downloaded and scrutinized.  In 2005 they had a budget surplus.  There are no "billion dollar deficits" and there hasn't been a tax increase in several years.

A look at the NYC budget website shows a 2006 and 2007 balanced budget there as well - no billions in surplus.  But they do have a projected budget deficit for 2008.

Soldier Field is not the most expensive stadium in North America.  There are several football and baseball stadiums, and even some NBA, which cost more.

The proceeds from the sale of the Skyway could be used on some of the projects, and private financing could be used for the rest.  There is over $500 MM  in the Skyway fund and private financing has not even begun.  Millennium Park was partly financed by private donations, which amounted to several hundred million dollars.  And that was mostly wihtout corporate donations.  If Chicago's leaders want to raise the money, it's there.  They haven't started yet because the proposal is in the R&D phase.  Once the USOC makes their announcement, things might change.

[NewYork2016]

Chicago had a balanced budget after the fact that they were expecting deficits of millions of dollars. I have Chicago's 2005 budget in front of me and they only balanced it, no surplus.

What Cities and States in the USA must do is balance their budgets. Cities and States are not allowed to deficit-spend by the Federal Government.

With NYC, we were expected to incur budget deficits for the coming years up to 2008. But, 2005 was a fruitful year. Instead of billions in red ink we ended up with big budget surplus. Budget surpluses were: FY 2004 was at $2B, FY2005 was the largest since 2001 at $3.5B, and with FY 2006 we're expecting more as the short term budget at present time recorded a $1.7B surplus.

All because of an economic boom in the city and the region. Even NY State which has to balance its budget the last few years because of deficits higher than Chicago's total budget, produced a surplus of $2B in FY 2005.

Of course, you're projecting your budget ahead of time. But it's different if the collections don't match up with your projections. Chicago projected a deficit and ended up with a balanced budget after downsizing its work force, increasing cigarette taxes, privatizing some assets and a ticket blitz!

NYC did it the other way, instead of downsizing its workers, the city demanded productivity, and the workers delivered. Revenue collections from Wall Street increased, indicating a boom in that sector. NYC demanded more economic activity, against dismantling some of its assets. Instead of curbing economic activity, the City tried to increase it by investing on things needed in the city. The City's failed 2012 bid already had a positive effect on our economy. Lots of places that are neglected are now starting to be regenerated. Thanks to the attention that the proposals from the games had given to these places. The result, the city gets bigger and economy is booming. Just look at the budget and see how big is the difference. NYC's budget for FY2005 almost $50B is 10 times bigger than Chicago's at $5B.

Having the games here would benefit the City a lot. Just imagine how many worldwide companies would want to invest in an event as big as the Olympics, held in the Financial Capital of the World.

Here are the reports on NYC's budget...

NYC FY2004 Budget Surplus

NYC FY2005 and FY2006 Budget Surplus

Ok... I don't to piss anybody off with my long posts but I just feel the need to address this issue...    :unclesam:

[NewYork2016]

By the way, I'm trying to find the news about budget surplus for Chicago, but I can't seem to find it on Yahoo and Google. The Chicago City website doesn't even show me any results when I type "budget surplus" in the search bar. There were results when I typed "budget deficit".

Could you give me a news article or any press release from a City official stating a budget surplus? Thanks.  

[lpatron]

Could you give me a news article or any press release from a City official stating a budget surplus? Thanks.  

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/new...?id=18361&rel=1

Specifically, I am referring to the statement "Revenues now have returned to their pre-recession level and in fact will be more than $47 million above budgeted levels this year, Budget Director Paul Volpe said."

[NewYork2016]

Could you give me a news article or any press release from a City official stating a budget surplus? Thanks.  

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/new...?id=18361&rel=1

Specifically, I am referring to the statement "Revenues now have returned to their pre-recession level and in fact will be more than $47 million above budgeted levels this year, Budget Director Paul Volpe said."

Nice to have a balanced sheet...  

At least, NYC doesn't have a balanced budget, we have billions in surpluses...  ::  

[LA84]

Actually, Chicago does have a surplus from the sale of the Skyway in I believe 2003.  They never spent the money.  And Chicago is also looking into privatizing Midway which will bring in billions more in surplus without having to raise taxes.  

Would United spend $500 million on an arena by the lake, when they just came out of bankruptcy and already have an arena in Chicago? Would McDonalds be willing to spend $1B on an Olympic Stadium without any use after the games?

Indeed they would, much as Coca Cola spent millions of dollars of support in Atlanta.  McDonalds has been one of the biggest corporate sponsor of the Olympics for years and even built venues for the '84 Games.  To have the games in their own backyard would spur on even more investment.

United is now out of bankruptcy and much leaner and are projected to return or profitability.  Again, a game in their own backyard and the opportunity of becoming the official carrier of the 2016 Games - lots of financial support there.

But that is just the tip of the iceburg.  Motorola, Sears, Boeing, Kraft, etc. - all former corporate sponsors for other Olympics will indeed open their pocketbooks wide for a 2016 Chicago Olympics.

BTW - I was reminded again yesterday how Chicago is already pretty much ready to host a games over New York.  

I was supposed to go to New York for an arbitration this week with my work but couldn't (actually, I got myself out of it because I wasn't in the mood to deal with the cold! I've become such a baby since moving to the west coast!   )  So I sent my assistant out.

He got back yesterday and was bitching, as most everyone does, about the nightmare of getting in and out of New York.  He flew into LaGuardia and of course, got caught on FDR Drive for a very long time.  Same thing when going back to LaGuardia to get home.

That is one huge advantage Chicago has over New York and something I am sure the IOC is going to be interested in.  Chicagos "L" system already goes all the way to O'Hare and Midway, providing easy access to and from the airports to the Loop within a short amount of time.  Not to mention it is much cleaner and with the rebuilding of all the loop subway stations already pretty much done, much more inviting and a less threatening feeling to foreign visitors.  :unclesam:

[NewYork2016]

Actually, Chicago does have a surplus from the sale of the Skyway in I believe 2003.  They never spent the money.  And Chicago is also looking into privatizing Midway which will bring in billions more in surplus without having to raise taxes.

But that's the end of the surplus. It's just the total opposite here in NYC. The City keeps on investing on its future by encouraging growth. With it comes more revenue. I guess that's one reason why Chicago is already left behind by NYC and other cities, it didn't invest more on its growth.

"Everything they do is aimed at chasing business out of Chicago. It's like we have a building boom, and all the steps they take are to kill the building boom," said Ald. Bernard Stone (50th). Ald. Brian Doherty (41st) added, "People are going to be in an uproar if they're hit with higher taxes in light of all of the corruption that has transpired."

Chicago Sun Times excerpts

One more thing, Chicago never incurred close to a billion budget surplus. The city balanced its budget for FY2005 and an almost $50 million surplus. IMO, that's not going to get you anywhere. You'll spend that amount in the USOC and IOC race combined. While NYC has billions! As what I've already pointed out on my last post. I've also posted articles proving that.

He got back yesterday and was bitching, as most everyone does, about the nightmare of getting in and out of New York.  He flew into LaGuardia and of course, got caught on FDR Drive for a very long time.  Same thing when going back to LaGuardia to get home.

That is one huge advantage Chicago has over New York and something I am sure the IOC is going to be interested in.  Chicagos "L" system already goes all the way to O'Hare and Midway, providing easy access to and from the airports to the Loop within a short amount of time.  Not to mention it is much cleaner and with the rebuilding of all the loop subway stations already pretty much done, much more inviting and a less threatening feeling to foreign visitors.

See, you're trying to compare 2 different situations here. I believe based on Chicago area residents here are posting, Chicago's airports are more accessible by public transportation. But NYC's airports are accessible by public transportation too, as I have already mentioned on some of my novel-like posts. ::

Although you need to transfer from a train line to another from JFK or EWR, and from a train to a bus to LGA. Just ask baron where you can get the best shuttle from LGA, he used it when he visited the city.

Honestly, it's not possible to use public transportation on the FDR Drive. Commercial vehicles are not allowed there. So chances are he's driving.  

On the contrary too, I have friends who live there in Chicago who are telling me how really bad their traffic situation is there. He lived in Lake Shore Dr for 5 years, and moved to Bolingbrook 40 miles west of the City. I have a friend too who lived in LA and moved to Chicago and even stated Chicago's traffic is almost the same as Los Angeles! That's really not good of a comparison. Unlike in NYC where the traffic is always on the bottlenecks, i.e. tunnels and bridges, other than that, it's pretty much moving efficiently. Besides, more than 60% anyway use public transportation in the Metro Area.

Add to that, the proposed Olympic Days would be the slowest days for MTA-NYCT ridership for the year. And believe me, I work all over Manhattan for a cable company and renting a room in Queens and living in New Jersey on the weekends. Traffic is the best during summer time, no school and more people on vacation. you can breeze through the Hudson River crossings easier than during school days.

I was supposed to go to New York for an arbitration this week with my work but couldn't (actually, I got myself out of it because I wasn't in the mood to deal with the cold! I've become such a baby since moving to the west coast!   )  So I sent my assistant out.

Sorry, you missed the very nice 70 degree weather!    

[LA84]

O.K. - if your friend moved off Lake Shore Drive and went to Bollingbrook he seriously needs help!  :help:  Unless, of course, he suddenly became married and had kids or his job went out there?

As far as the traffic situation, I do not see how anyone could think that it is as bad as Los Angeles.  Nevertheless, it is kind of a moot point since the trend seems to be that residents tend to leave the host city when the games starts which frees up the expressways a lot.  

See, you're trying to compare 2 different situations here. I believe based on Chicago area residents here are posting, Chicago's airports are more accessible by public transportation. But NYC's airports are accessible by public transportation too, as I have already mentioned on some of my novel-like posts.

Although you need to transfer from a train line to another from JFK or EWR, and from a train to a bus to LGA. Just ask baron where you can get the best shuttle from LGA, he used it when he visited the city.

But this is just my point.  Sure you can take transport from any of the 3 airports.  My preferred method used to be taking the Carey buses from Newark (I think that is the name of them), which always got backed up at the Holland Tunnel.  But it is a convoluted and inconvenient way of getting into the city, having to transfer from bus to subway, whereas in Chicago it is a straight shot.

And yes, my assistant took a taxi from LaGuardia which is how he had the misfortune of ending up on FDR at 4:30 in the afternoon.

But that's the end of the surplus. It's just the total opposite here in NYC. The City keeps on investing on its future by encouraging growth. With it comes more revenue. I guess that's one reason why Chicago is already left behind by NYC and other cities, it didn't invest more on its growth.

"Everything they do is aimed at chasing business out of Chicago. It's like we have a building boom, and all the steps they take are to kill the building boom," said Ald. Bernard Stone (50th). Ald. Brian Doherty (41st) added, "People are going to be in an uproar if they're hit with higher taxes in light of all of the corruption that has transpired."

Of all the aldermen to quote you chose the lone Republican (Doherty) and Bernie Stone, whose ward is notorious for corruption and always has his hand out for some project in his nasty ward.

The sale of the Skyway went for I believe around 1.5b.  Part of that was indeed used to balance the cities budget.  The rest was invested.

[NewYork2016]

O.K. - if your friend moved off Lake Shore Drive and went to Bollingbrook he seriously needs help!    Unless, of course, he suddenly became married and had kids or his job went out there?

They had kids yes and they live in a condo on 5050 Lake Shore. Moved to Bolingbrook and bought a house. Plus, they don't want to live in the city anymore. Although he still works in downtown Chicago.

As far as the traffic situation, I do not see how anyone could think that it is as bad as Los Angeles.  Nevertheless, it is kind of a moot point since the trend seems to be that residents tend to leave the host city when the games starts which frees up the expressways a lot.  

Exactly my point. So I guess we can agree that during the games, there wouldn't be that many people in the city. But what I'm trying to point to you, that in addition to the light traffic we have in NYC those days, more people can go on vacation and make the traffic lighter which would make NYC more efficient than Chicago.

But this is just my point.  Sure you can take transport from any of the 3 airports.  My preferred method used to be taking the Carey buses from Newark (I think that is the name of them), which always got backed up at the Holland Tunnel.  But it is a convoluted and inconvenient way of getting into the city, having to transfer from bus to subway, whereas in Chicago it is a straight shot.

And yes, my assistant took a taxi from LaGuardia which is how he had the misfortune of ending up on FDR at 4:30 in the afternoon.

I don't know why you guys are doing that. If you don't know what type of transportation you need to take on one of the 3 airports, you should check with the information desk.

There is a bus straight from Newark Airport to NY Penn Station and they won't take the Holland Tunnel, they take the Lincoln Tunnel. Or if you would prefer the train, take the Newark Airtrain to Newark Penn Station, then take the PATH to either Herald Square or WTC Stations. All in less than

All in one transfer. Chicago might be more accessible, but our airports are truly accessible and they're not bad as some people would want to picture it.

I'm pretty sure during the games, that won't be an issue. Of course, it won't be the regular Olympic lifestyle you're experiencing in NYC everyday for those magical 2 weeks.

[NewYork2016]

The sale of the Skyway went for I believe around 1.5b.  Part of that was indeed used to balance the cities budget.  The rest was invested.

I was trying to check where was the money invested but I can't find it anywhere in Chicago's FY2006 Budget document that I have in front of me now. Do you have a link you can provide meon where was the money invested?  

[LA84]

The sale of the Skyway went for I believe around 1.5b.  Part of that was indeed used to balance the cities budget.  The rest was invested.

I was trying to check where was the money invested but I can't find it anywhere in Chicago's FY2006 Budget document that I have in front of me now. Do you have a link you can provide meon where was the money invested?  

I'll try to find it.  I was posting mostly off memory because at the time I was living there and foolishly thought that they might cut my property taxes.   :grinning:

BTW - looks like New York is following Chicago's lead and is looking into doing something similar to address their financial situation:

Pataki Taking Cue From Chicago Skyway Sale

[NewYork2016]

BTW - looks like New York is following Chicago's lead and is looking into doing something similar to address their financial situation:

Pataki Taking Cue From Chicago Skyway Sale

I can't access the page. I think you have to be a NY Sun subscriber. Can you post the article in here?

hmm? I wonder which State properties he will sell or lease? I just don't know what will it bring to the State right now as it will take a lot of money coming in from the tolls paid in those tunnels and bridges out in the State's coffers.

Unlike Chicago which only has the Skyway, MTA operates 9 bridges and tunnels which contribute more than $1B annually to Metro-North, New York City Transit and Long Island Railroad. If they'll lease it to somebody else, then that's goodbye to the tolls and the contributions to the public transportation systems in the City and State. I'm pretty sure, you'll hear Bloomberg oppose this if Pataki will pursue the sale or lease of the bridges and tunnels.

[NewYork2016]

I'll try to find it.  I was posting mostly off memory because at the time I was living there and foolishly thought that they might cut my property taxes.    

Why don't you come over here? You'll just not get tax cuts, but property tax rebates as well.  :wwww:

[baron-pierreIV]

OK, I'm bumping up this thread because that Toronto thread is getting stupider than ever.

[LA84]

OK, I'm bumping up this thread because that Toronto thread is getting stupider than ever.

Yep.  And I had sooooo hoped that after the 20 or so threads on that topic this past summer that the topic would be dead.

Anyway - back to bids that have a chance for 2016!  :unclesam:

In a pseudo related item, the extreme religious right is now whining that the President waived the HIV/AIDS restrictions fr athletes to travel to Chicago this July for the Gay Games  

Clicky Here -

Why don't you come over here? You'll just not get tax cuts, but property tax rebates as well.

Because that would entail me having to move to New York!  :shocked:  :laugh:

[nykfan845]

Another venue has just been approved on Long Island. In a future bid the New Nassau Coliseum could be used for handball as suggested by Brian Hatch, founder of newyorkgames.org

Wang's Coliseum deal is approved

It's a big picture, so I've decided to bring you just the link:

General Layout & Plan

[NewYork2016]

Damn... Why is the New York Metro Area, so obsessed with building sports parks, 3 huge ones?

Of course, it's not because NYC is going to bid for the games as what some people would insist they believe is the case.  ::