Jump to content

Is it safe to rule out Madrid and Moscow?


Recommended Posts

Is it just me, or does anyone else think Madrid and Moscow stand little chance, if any, of winning the 2012 bid?

For me, it`s like Moscow isnt even in this bid... and Madrid's wheels came off a long time ago. And the bomb by ETA, reinforced this for me.

If IOC "insiders" can be trusted... it does seem its a 3 horse race. Obviously Madrid and Moscow wont pull out, and fight on... but do the supporters of these two cities see any light at the end of the tunnel?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 50
  • Created
  • Last Reply

You can never really tell 100% - but I think that is a fair assessment.  I never gave much hope to Moscow.  Madrid I saw as a spoiler.  A safe alternate to the Big 3 and a contendor for surprise taking out of New York in the early rounds.  But now I don't even see it as having that dark hores luxury anymore.  A shame - I liked their bid.

But as I said, its never 100%.  There are shocks and surprises along the way.  I didn't see Atlanta having a shot at 1996, but they pulled it out of the hat with a solid victory over Athens, Toronto and Melbourne.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If IOC "insiders" can be trusted... it does seem its a 3 horse race. Obviously Madrid and Moscow wont pull out, and fight on... but do the supporters of these two cities see any light at the end of the tunnel?

I think the success of Madrid very much depends on the influence of Juan Antionio Samaranch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If IOC "insiders" can be trusted... it does seem its a 3 horse race. Obviously Madrid and Moscow wont pull out, and fight on... but do the supporters of these two cities see any light at the end of the tunnel?

I think the success of Madrid very much depends on the influence of Juan Antionio Samaranch.

Indeed. But I think his influence is limitied. Doesn`t he personally support Madrid, and then London? So if his opinion counts, this could help London.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ehhhh?  WHo knows?  The old coot might just kick the bucket before July.  

Naaah.  Madrid's outta the picture; and Samaranch pere et fils, I think, are of marginal influence now.  I mean, this dynasty thing in the IOC is so 19th century -- and the newer members are not as impressed by this as the old-timers are.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is it just me, or does anyone else think Madrid and Moscow stand little chance, if any, of winning the 2012 bid?

For me, it`s like Moscow isnt even in this bid... and Madrid's wheels came off a long time ago. And the bomb by ETA, reinforced this for me.

If IOC "insiders" can be trusted... it does seem its a 3 horse race. Obviously Madrid and Moscow wont pull out, and fight on... but do the supporters of these two cities see any light at the end of the tunnel?

i think that part of that opinion you have..is that here are more suporters of London, Paris and NY.

Moscow has been keeping a low profile..but we dont know if they will surprise the Evaluation Committe.

For madrid i dont even bother in thinking in eta..is like NY..would care of Al-Qaeda..doesnt make sense..

In 2012 the city hosting the olympics would be the safiest city in the world..it doesnt matter if is London, Paris, Moscow, Ny or Paris.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well a Moscow win would certainly surprise more than just the Eval Committee, since their presence in the Final 5 is entirely down to some "creative accounting" and juggling of the numbers in the original technical eval.

Madrid? It's still a very strong technical bid, even if some of the body-language of the Eval Comm didn't appear too positive to some observers. They still have to deal with the perception among some observers that it would be too soon after Barcelona.

I would be more inclined to say that New York is a more likely NO than Madrid ... if they haven't got the stadium site nailed down by now, the suspicion might be that the IOC won't give them the benefit of the doubt. With other very strong contenders in the field, why take the (slight) risk?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, unfortunatelly, I still have doubts that the main factor for the IOC is the technical part, transport, ect but politics, image   :( So, Moscow could win, but most of you says that is couldn't just because of its political location I guess...
Link to comment
Share on other sites

God, we keep going around and around in these fora - that each city can win.  But people, Moscow BARELY made the short list.  I think the only reason the IOC threw it in there is out of deference to the Russian Olympic Committee.  But we all know it's going to be an also-run.  

People, face reality.  THe fight is going to be between London, Paris and New York .  Jeez.   :rolleyes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

God, we keep going around and around in these fora - that each city can win.  But people, Moscow BARELY made the short list.  I think the only reason the IOC threw it in there is out of deference to the Russian Olympic Committee.  But we all know it's going to be an also-run.  

People, face reality.  THe fight is going to be between London, Paris and New York .  Jeez.   :rolleyes:

Yeah, yeah and the German NOC is not deferenced by IOC in your opinion?  :cool:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mulder, I'm afraid Baron's argument is spot on. The German NOC's view was not deferenced, because the IOC took one look at Leipzig, and despite its technical credentials (better than Moscow's), took one look at its commercial attractiveness relative to anywhere else and said "Guys, come back to us when you want to present Berlin!"

In that sense, it's little different from what happened with the UK and Manchester and Birmingham, neither attracted much support because a) they were up against stronger commercial options (Barcelona, Atlanta, Sydney) and B) the IOC wanted London.

I fully suspect that the Germans will come back to the table with Berlin and will get the games eventually (although the list of strong European candidates after London/Paris means that they may have to wait a while)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mulder, I'm afraid Baron's argument is spot on. The German NOC's view was not deferenced, because the IOC took one look at Leipzig, and despite its technical credentials (better than Moscow's), took one look at its commercial attractiveness relative to anywhere else and said "Guys, come back to us when you want to present Berlin!"

In that sense, it's little different from what happened with the UK and Manchester and Birmingham, neither attracted much support because a) they were up against stronger commercial options (Barcelona, Atlanta, Sydney) and B) the IOC wanted London.

I fully suspect that the Germans will come back to the table with Berlin and will get the games eventually (although the list of strong European candidates after London/Paris means that they may have to wait a while)

h, I know his argumants... "Hmm, Moscow sucks..."  :( I donn't agree that Leipzig had better bid than Moscow, u know, its technical stuff is NOT better than Moscow, God, thay said that even transport is better than in Moscow - that's nonsence!! It's so easy so say that Moscow is suck if you have never been to it!!  :rolleyes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mulder, don't give up.  The IOC is still full of old 'East Europeans' and those who answer to despots in North Africa and East Africa.

Lets look at it from an IOCs members point of view.  You are 60 or 70 - you had an awesome time at the 2001 IOC meeting in Moscow where Beijing was given the nod.  The Russians were awesome hosts, made sure no pesky protesters got in the way and the organisers treated you all like royalty.

Whether or not the venues are the best, or who has the more political points to score by staging the Games, in the eyes and short memories of the ever ageing IOC, Moscow has already proven they can look after the IOC very, very well.

On paper, Moscow looks weaker - but in the end it is 100+ votes from old men and a few women who will decide - and Moscow may have an edge that most people are not comprehending.

Frankly I think Madrid could still surprise as well - very strong technical bid.  NYC, London and Paris likewise - but Moscow has more ready right now then any of the others.  And after Athens the IOC may look at that as a deciding factor.

Moscow would be a surprise - but not surprising of you know what I mean.

For me, it's Moscow or NYC - but any could win and I'd still shrug and look forward to the far more interesting 2014 bids.

2012 is really quite blah for me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mulder, don't give up.  The IOC is still full of old 'East Europeans' and those who answer to despots in North Africa and East Africa.

Lets look at it from an IOCs members point of view.  You are 60 or 70 - you had an awesome time at the 2001 IOC meeting in Moscow where Beijing was given the nod.  The Russians were awesome hosts, made sure no pesky protesters got in the way and the organisers treated you all like royalty.

Whether or not the venues are the best, or who has the more political points to score by staging the Games, in the eyes and short memories of the ever ageing IOC, Moscow has already proven they can look after the IOC very, very well.

On paper, Moscow looks weaker - but in the end it is 100+ votes from old men and a few women who will decide - and Moscow may have an edge that most people are not comprehending.

Frankly I think Madrid could still surprise as well - very strong technical bid.  NYC, London and Paris likewise - but Moscow has more ready right now then any of the others.  And after Athens the IOC may look at that as a deciding factor.

Moscow would be a surprise - but not surprising of you know what I mean.

For me, it's Moscow or NYC - but any could win and I'd still shrug and look forward to the far more interesting 2014 bids.

2012 is really quite blah for me.

Well, I agree with almost all that you said... You know, I'm not waiting for such words as "Hey, Moscow is the best city for 2012...blah, blah" I'm just so tired of such unconstructive stuff as "It's sucks just because it's Moscow" if u know what I mean. I'm really tired of it..., plus you probably could visit all the cities except Moscow - it was "closed" for years and years, but now - the time has come, I wish all of you guys could see my native city, see it's sports venues... ect...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 months later...

Well, i'm spanish and i support Madrid of course. The topic offends me and well, some people's remarks here even more.

I hate people looking down on other people, and even more if it comes to generalize talking about a whole country o society. Many londoners, parisiens and americans do that here, talking about a race between the 3 big cities. London, Paris or New York would organize better games than Madrid or Moscow? Surely NO

Are these 3 cities perfect? New York without stadium and the lowest popular support... London with not good public transport that absolutely needs to be improved if they want to host the games... and Paris with everything inside the city, which will generate a kind of caos in the traffic.

Besides... many people think.. Madrid will win? hahaha of course not, less offer in accomodation and who cares Madrid? it has no importance in Europe...

They surely forget that Madrid's project was ranked 2 in the short list, very close to Paris and relatively far ahead from London. So if Madrid was ranked 1 in many of the points 7 out of 11 that means a strong project (and even more for a city who has never hosted olympic games). And if we think of points in which it was ranked 1 such as public trasport, general infraestructures and sport venues (83% venues needed already exist or are under construction)... Do you think London Paris or New York have improved it in a period of few months??? How can a city improve its public transport (bus, metropolitan, trains...) general infraestructures (airport, roads, motorways...) and venues (buildings that need years to be built..) in a period of few months? ahhh they may think that is more important to "promise you will have it" than "to have it"

I find all the cities able to hold games. I see strong and weak points in all the candidate cities.

At first i prefered, if not Madrid, London or Paris to win, as a european.. but i have changed completely my opinion... if not Madrid i would prefer Moscow to win and then New York (that would make Madrid possibe to bid for 2016). But surely Paris will win as it has a good project and because its the third time it bids in a short period of time (2008, lost against Pekin... and 1992, lost against Barcelona... oh my god!!! how can a french city be "defeated" by a spanish city!!!???)

Anyway in case Paris wins... if we talk about life in the cities, i have to say that Paris is a boring city, a big museum, very beatiful but without the life of Madrid, New York or London.

And one more thing... only Paris and New York have more experience than Madrid in hosting sport events... really? Madrid has hosted more sport events than London!!!??? How can a spanish city have more experience in anything thant a britthis city!!!???

Stop looking down on people when you dont have really reasons nor information enough to do it (im referring to people doing it, not to all the londoners, parisiens or americans)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

oh please, an other process of victimization

perhaps as a newbie you should read the other post before saying that everybody is against Madrid

nobody has said that Madrid cannot host very good games... the majority of people just thinks that it s too soon for madrid after 1992, and in term of "international visibility" madrid can not be at the same level than the big 3.

If Madrid wins, its would be thanks Samaranch, and I dont think you will have to be pride of that

so dont begin to bash  the other cities like ' paris is boring" and try to avoid the cliché like "paris is a museum."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

... you say... Madrid is able to host the games... and then you say... if Madrid wins it would be thanks to Samaranch... why not because of its bid? so dont tell you think Madrid could host the games in the same conditions than the 3 "big". We all know the choice won't be based on the bid but on political issues...

My remark about Paris is not a cliche, i've been there and that's what i've found. In my opinion, nor London nor New York deserve to receive more votes than Madrid if it comes to the projects. Well thats my opinion...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

... you say... Madrid is able to host the games... and then you say... if Madrid wins it would be thanks to Samaranch... why not because of its bid? so dont tell you think Madrid could host the games in the same conditions than the 3 "big". We all know the choice won't be based on the bid but on political issues...

My remark about Paris is not a cliche, i've been there and that's what i've found. In my opinion, nor London nor New York deserve to receive more votes than Madrid if it comes to the projects. Well thats my opinion...

For Paris i think you are blind..Paris a museum...what a cliché,it is your fantast that works

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In my opinion, nor London nor New York deserve to receive more votes than Madrid if it comes to the projects. Well thats my opinion...

well you know, I dont think that Barcelona would have won the games against Paris n 1992, if the project and the tecnhical evaluation had been the only criterias...

so now dont tell me that we only have to take into consideration the technical project and only that for 2012....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Barcelonas's games, one of the best games. Everyone knows it, as they know Atlanta's games were one of the worst games. Is it fair to change from continent every olympic games? YES is it fair to vote a city because of its popularity? NO Anyway, the only thing i meant with all that is this: don't look down on us cause you have NO reasons to do it, and i repeat im not refering to everyone.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...