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arwebb
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The sport of Taekwondo has probably had its worst day ever!

First the incompetence of the referee in the Women's +67kg causing an extremely embarrassing reversal of the quarter-final result - and then the +80kg Cuban competitor kicking out at another unreasonable official; although the official can't be blamed for the violence, the Cuban was given only ten seconds notice to finish taping his injured foot and get up ready to fight before being disqualified - ridiculous!

If I was the IOC I would be seriously questioning whether Taekwondo should remain an Olympic sport after today's displays.

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Regardless of the mayhem taekwondo will probably survive a cut as it attracts a lot of medallists from countries that would otherwise not likely medal at all. On top of that, the old Hollywood adage remains true: There's no such thing as bad publicity! I bet searches into taekwondo will shoot up thousands-fold just because of the face kick, sure to be a viral sensation.

Ironically, the federation should be thanking Matos along with banning him.

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The Cuban guy should be ashamed. If that guy was British I think I would be ashamed too.

It was wrong of the Cuban athlete to do that - but I must admit I enjoyed seeing it after all the stupidity in the women's event earlier.

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I just watched a taekwondo match the GB girl clearly got a strike to the head of the Chinese girl that went totally un-noticed by the judges which meant she lost. There has been too much scandellous judging and as far as im concerned its tainting an other wise great games. Are the judges just crap or is it a China bias? They are winning loads of medals without the help from bad judges so why are they doing it?

When the games are in London I dont want us scoring better just cause its a GB competitor, that just aint cricket!

You are berated the entire games because of one instance of bad judging that involves a Chinese athlete?

Somehow I was just waiting for these comments to appear, especially when China was almost sweeping all the Diving golds. I suppose those judges have "made amends" and the "games is great again" for "failing" to give the Chinese hosts the last diving gold today, denying them the first clean sweep of diving golds since 1952, and forcing them to hope for the record 50th Gold medal in this games on the last day of competition?

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You are berated the entire games because of one instance of bad judging that involves a Chinese athlete?

Somehow I was just waiting for these comments to appear, especially when China was almost sweeping all the Diving golds. I suppose those judges have "made amends" and the "games is great again" for "failing" to give the Chinese hosts the last diving gold today, denying them the first clean sweep of diving golds since 1952, and forcing them to hope for the record 50th Gold medal in this games on the last day of competition?

Don't be ridiculous - this is an attack on bad judging decisions and not China itself.

Grow up.

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I think by 2012 events such as Wrestling, Boxing, Taekwondo and Judo should have an additional official watching the match's television coverage (which can be replayed to check the points being played).

There have been far too many irregularities and often to the benefit of the Chinese - judges were obviously being swayed by partisan spectators.

And perhaps you can say the same about Diving, Gymnastics and Synchronized swimming, where manual judgement plays a significant part as well?

Blame the partisan spectators for being too partisan. I would like to see how subsequent games organisers instruct spectators to quit cheering least they influence the judges!

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Don't be ridiculous - this is an attack on bad judging decisions and not China itself.

Grow up.

Considering I just quoted you using the "C" word, I aren't so sure if I am in need of growth. I would have thought sportsmanship and racial tolerance are also qualities of mature, reasonable beings?

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Considering I just quoted you using the "C" word, I aren't so sure if I am in need of growth. I would have thought sportsmanship and racial tolerance are also qualities of mature, reasonable beings?

How is it anti-Chinese or racially intolerant to blame judges of competition for being swayed by partisan crowds? Of course overwhelmingly Chinese crowds are going to support Chinese athletes (it is the same whoever the hosts are), but it is wrong for the referees and judges of these events to be swayed by popular opinion in the venues. That's not the fault of the Chinese athletes or the spectators - it's the fault of the judges and referees.

Where is the racial intolerance in that?

If you are a regular visitor here you would know that I have been a great supporter of Beijing 2008 and China as hosts for a long time on these boards.

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The sport of Taekwondo has probably had its worst day ever!

First the incompetence of the referee in the Women's +67kg causing an extremely embarrassing reversal of the quarter-final result - and then the +80kg Cuban competitor kicking out at another unreasonable official; although the official can't be blamed for the violence, the Cuban was given only ten seconds notice to finish taping his injured foot and get up ready to fight before being disqualified - ridiculous!

If I was the IOC I would be seriously questioning whether Taekwondo should remain an Olympic sport after today's displays.

Oh yes, this makes perfect sense! Let's just do away with a sport because one single competitor kicked an official in the face. :rolleyes:

And bad judging? Like that's never happened before, in the history of any sport. Here's an idea: better judges? :lol:

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How is it anti-Chinese or racially intolerant to blame judges of competition for being swayed by partisan crowds? Of course overwhelmingly Chinese crowds are going to support Chinese athletes (it is the same whoever the hosts are), but it is wrong for the referees and judges of these events to be swayed by popular opinion in the venues. That's not the fault of the Chinese athletes or the spectators - it's the fault of the judges and referees.

Where is the racial intolerance in that?

If you are a regular visitor here you would know that I have been a great supporter of Beijing 2008 and China as hosts for a long time on these boards.

While I of course fully agree that impartial judging is entirely expected in all sports tournaments, and that is is "wrong" for judges to be swayed by partisan crowds, could you tell us if this is a unique phenomena which doesn't happen outside China? Has bad judgement calls been as significantly problematic in these games then in the past, just because the Chinese seem to be winning to many medals in their home town?

No one needs to prove themselves as "Chinese supporters", for I hardly care about that. But what I do consider particularly disgusting, is when individuals display an obviously higher level of scrutiny in these games, seemingly out to sniff out any small signs of the infamous "Chinese cheats" rearing their ugly heads, regardless of this being their fault or not. Unless solid evidence can be provided to show that bad judgement rules the day in too many events, what remains is still an unabashed display of racial discrimination and unsportsmanlike behaviour.

Perhaps instead of growing up, some folks here needs to get a life instead and quit feeling so insecure of themselves.

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Oh yes, this makes perfect sense! Let's just do away with a sport because one single competitor kicked an official in the face. :rolleyes:

And bad judging? Like that's never happened before, in the history of any sport. Here's an idea: better judges? :lol:

Thank you. I'm glad you agree with me - better judges and ways of judging are needed for sports like Taekwando - if not, then yes Taekwando doesn't deserve the honour of being an Olympic sport.

It wasn't an isolated incident; for the integrity of the sport to continue better judgements need to be made in the future - for without the integrity there is no point.

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Thank you. I'm glad you agree with me - better judges and ways of judging are needed for sports like Taekwando - if not, then yes Taekwando doesn't deserve the honour of being an Olympic sport.

It wasn't an isolated incident; for the integrity of the sport to continue better judgements need to be made in the future - for without the integrity there is no point.

Of course everyone agrees with you on the need for good judging, as do I. So how would you propose that this be done? Affix an electronic sensor on their faces ala fencing?

As far as I remember, sports have been removed from the Olympic programme for having limited participation, limited public appeal, or lack a proper governing body. I have yet to hear of sports being removed just for having a flawed judging system or a spate of bad judgement calls.

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While I of course fully agree that impartial judging is entirely expected in all sports tournaments, and that is is "wrong" for judges to be swayed by partisan crowds, could you tell us if this is a unique phenomena which doesn't happen outside China? Has bad judgement calls been as significantly problematic in these games then in the past, just because the Chinese seem to be winning to many medals in their home town?

No one needs to prove themselves as "Chinese supporters", for I hardly care about that. But what I do consider particularly disgusting, is when individuals display an obviously higher level of scrutiny in these games, seemingly out to sniff out any small signs of the infamous "Chinese cheats" rearing their ugly heads, regardless of this being their fault or not. Unless solid evidence can be provided to show that bad judgement rules the day in too many events, what remains is still an unabashed display of racial discrimination and unsportsmanlike behaviour.

You are obviously not reading my posts properly (btw that is not a racial slur because you come from Asia).

I've already stated that crowds will obviously be bias no matter where the event is placed - which suggests that I don't believe it's a solely Chinese phenomenon. Understand?

Errors of judgement have occurred in Olympic sports in the past, however, I haven't spent a couple of hours today watching events from Sydney, or Munich, or Albertville, I've been watching the Beijing Games and commenting on a 'Beijing Games' forum about the Beijing Games.

I challenge you to find any post where I say that Chinese athletes are cheating - because I have not.

You seem to have the ability to deliberately misunderstand anything I write.

Edited by Stu
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Stu - wrestling and judo have very specific codes of points, especially judo, that is why you don't see the problems in those sports and the controversies that have dogged taekwondo and boxing with the very general scoring instructions.

Taekwondo and boxing have had bad judging since 1988, there hasn't been a games were there hasn't been some controversy.

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Unless solid evidence can be provided to show that bad judgement rules the day in too many events, what remains is still an unabashed display of racial discrimination and unsportsmanlike behaviour.

Well that's easy - we had evidence of bad judgement in todays Taekwondo. If the unprecedented step hadn't been taken to review video footage of the match and reverse the decision then the wrong competitor would have advanced into the semi-final - the decision was only reversed because of an official protest. It should not have needed an official protest to be made for the judges to at least explore the possibilities of a mistake.

Perhaps if you still believe me to be racially intolerant you should check out the 'Hot Bods of the Games' thread. ;)

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You are obviously not reading my posts properly (btw that is not a racial slur because you come from Asia).

I've already stated that crowds will obviously be bias no matter where the event is placed - which suggests that I don't believe it's a solely Chinese phenomenon. Understand?

Errors of judgement have occurred in Olympic sports in the past, however, I haven't spent a couple of hours today watching events from Sydney, or Munich, or Albertville, I've been watching the Beijing Games and commenting on a 'Beijing Games' forum about the Beijing Games.

I challenge you to find any post where I say that Chinese athletes are cheating - because I have not.

You seem to have the ability to deliberately misunderstand anything I write.

And I suppose the selective reading/comprehension phenomena goes both ways.

My responses are fully dependent on what I read and interpret. If you are actually attempting to say that "crowds will obviously be bias no matter where the event is placed", care to quote that comment for my reference and reinterpretation, for a comment like

There have been far too many irregularities and often to the benefit of the Chinese - judges were obviously being swayed by partisan spectators.

makes no such suggestion?

And speaking of "deliberate misunderstandings", care to quote any of my statements which says you called the Chinese athletes cheats?

Thus, the ball is certainly in your court to support the observations you made, failing which you are equally guilty of displaying socially inappropriate behaviour you berate the judges of, if not more, for I would consider even a tint of racism far worse than unfair judging. In fact, your comments reminds me of a much milder version of Pillan, but basically with the same personal issues to deal with! ;)

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Yes, these games have had questionable judging. So did just about every games you can think of since - forever.

Nadia got rooked in Moscow. The Koreans thought they did in Athens Mens gymnastics. Sale and Pelltier - need I say more. Heck it also goes back to the Linda Fratianne/Annete Poetsz face off in '80.

Every Olympics have them.

These games did seem to have more of a bias, however, for the Chinese. I re-watched the Canadian Tai Kwando match and that seemed extreme. As did the Swedish wrestler match (altho he ended up being a boob) <_< And now this British thing.

Sale and Pelletier was extreme as was Nadia '80. The boxing and tai kwando I put right up there in these games.

Edited by LA84
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Stu - wrestling and judo have very specific codes of points, especially judo, that is why you don't see the problems in those sports and the controversies that have dogged taekwondo and boxing with the very general scoring instructions.

Perhaps, but I still believe closer scrutiny, even in wrestling and judo, by an additional official viewing the same footage people can see at home, would only help judging decisions for the better should a contentious incident arise.

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Well that's easy - we had evidence of bad judgement in todays Taekwondo. If the unprecedented step hadn't been taken to review video footage of the match and reverse the decision then the wrong competitor would have advanced into the semi-final - the decision was only reversed because of an official protest. It should not have needed an official protest to be made for the judges to at least explore the possibilities of a mistake.

Perhaps if you still believe me to be racially intolerant you should check out the 'Hot Bods of the Games' thread. ;)

I would consider it bad judgement and an injustice done to the athletes concerned if the judges reject evidence presented and refuse to reverse their decision. They realise they have made a mistake, admitted it, reviewed their decision, and the games continued despite the negative reactions from the "partisan crowd". That is a display of good judgement, even if it came belatedly, compared to several sports (such as football), where once judgements are made, protests are almost ineffective.

If being able to appreciate the body of someone of a different race means someone qualifies as being racially tolerant, the world would be a much happier place long ago. :lol:

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Perhaps, but I still believe closer scrutiny, even in wrestling and judo, by an additional official viewing the same footage people can see at home, would only help judging decisions for the better should a contentious incident arise.

Leaves me wondering why they can't do it for football. The world seems to be able to see far more fouls then the referee can ever see. Consistently. :P

Perhaps we will soon have numerous sports where the results are no longer flashed immediately, for each will need a video review? Perhaps people can no longer jump up and scream each time a football score is made, for the results are still subjected to a video review afterwards? ;)

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what I do consider particularly disgusting, is when individuals display an obviously higher level of scrutiny in these games, seemingly out to sniff out any small signs of the infamous "Chinese cheats" rearing their ugly heads, regardless of this being their fault or not.

Here you go.

As for racial intolerance - it is you who are displaying those sentiments with your paranoia about any opinion from me, a westerner, must have racial overtones - this I find extremely offensive. Perhaps you're the one who resembles Pillan?

As I've said before, I have been an avid supporter of the Chinese and their Olympics throughout the months leading up to these Games and through the Games themselves and will continue to do so despite your efforts to provoke conflict.

I've had enough of this conversation, and of you - write what you will, I won't reply.

Edited by Stu
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Here you go.

As for racial intolerance - it is you who are displaying those sentiments with your paranoia about any opinion from me, a westerner, must have racial overtones - this I find extremely offensive. Perhaps you're the one who resembles Pillan?

As I've said before, I have been an avid supporter of the Chinese and their Olympics throughout the months leading up to these Games and through the Games themselves and will continue to do so despite your efforts to provoke conflict.

I've had enough of this conversation, and of you - write what you will, I won't reply.

Great, and so now tell me. Where does it say that "Stu says the Chinese athletes are cheating", when I clearly said "individuals display an obviously higher level of scrutiny in these games, seemingly out to sniff out any small signs of the infamous "Chinese cheats" rearing their ugly heads". From where did the word "athlete" appear?

It appears that you have beaten me on the "foolishness" stakes? :P

What I have pointed out are you very own words. You singled out the Chinese for benefiting from "biased judges", when you failed to provide verifiable evidence from reputable and neutral third party sources. As rightfully said by myself and several others, even if the effect of partisan crowds are true, such things happen all the time.

It is a pity that I will not be expecting a valued response from you, for even up till now, you have made zero effort to show evidence of widespread pro-Chinese judging. Not that I am too surprised anyway, for I found no widespread evidence of this in the world's media.

And what a way to cap the discussion with another touch of sheer irony. The person who tries to instigate ill-will by continuing to accuse judges of being biased towards the hosts now considers the person telling him off for a shameful display of bad sportsmanship and discrimination against the hosts as the one "provoking conflict"? ;)

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