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Sir Rols
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The Wikipedia entries of most of the Chinese gymnasts now have 'disputed' beside the date of birth entry. If Karolyi didn't go hysterical about it, would others have noticed it?

slathering on eye makeup on a twelve year old doesn't make her look 16. at least, it didn't these girls. i think the reason why they kept bringing it up was because they knew everyone would be noticing it. even before i knew you had to be SIXTEEN to compete i thought 'what is that twelve year old doing there?'

selectively following the rules for your team's benefit is blatant cheating. and i'm sure if i was saying this in china right now i'd be missing some fingers.

Edited by krow
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Anyone notice how Bob Costas had a concerned look on his face and put his hand on Bela Karolyi's back or shoulder when he started ranting about how those girls' passports were fixed?... Maybe a CPC supervisor was present in that studio. :mellow:

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The Americans did screw up. However, they should still have the gold. Unless Chinese math works differently than the rest of the world:

From today's USA Today:

This is where China's math and the rest of the world's math diverge. Yang Yilin, a medal contender in the all-around, was born Aug. 26, 1993, according to the official 2004, 2005 and 2006 national registration lists previously posted on the General Administration of Sport of China website, the Associated Press has reported. That means Yang is still 14, with her 15th birthday approaching.

But, interestingly enough, on the 2007 registration list, her birthday became Aug. 26, 1992.

How about He Kexin, a medal favorite on uneven bars? In articles and registration lists from 2005, 2006 and 2007, found by The New York Times and the Associated Press, she was born Jan. 1, 1994. Oh-oh.

But her Chinese passport says she was born Jan. 1, 1992. (Doesn't this happen with aging Hollywood actresses, only in reverse?)

And Jiang Yuyuan, another pillar of China's team? A list of competitors at a 2007 provincial competition listed an Oct. 1, 1993, birth date.

The passport? No problem. Nov. 1, 1991.

No matter how significant the other evidence, those passports, issued by the Chinese government, trump all. "The International Gymnastics Federation strictly verified their passports and confirmed that their ages met the age rules for participating in the world championship, World Cup and Olympics," the Chinese Gymnastics Association said in a statement.

<_<:angry:

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this is ridiculous. if it were any other country but china trying to pull this off it would be a full blown scandal.

i'm not even one of china's biggest detractors. i believe they should be given a fair shot at running a seamless games. but cheating your way through it to up the wow factor or the medal count is another story.

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this is ridiculous. if it were any other country but china trying to pull this off it would be a full blown scandal.

i'm not even one of china's biggest detractors. i believe they should be given a fair shot at running a seamless games. but cheating your way through it to up the wow factor or the medal count is another story.

does that mean the American team are all losers physically even they are well older but weaker than the Chinese team? What's this cheating all about?

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By the way, I don't understand a single point about How Gymnastics chould be called CHEATING as this sport generally based on team work/talent/professionalism unlike others involved heavily with strength and power....or even dopping?

And by the way, I wonder the sports like table tennis what Chinese players mostly famous for could be also considering as CHEATING, because they are just too good at it, aren't they?

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The Americans did screw up. However, they should still have the gold. Unless Chinese math works differently than the rest of the world:

From today's USA Today:

This is where China's math and the rest of the world's math diverge. Yang Yilin, a medal contender in the all-around, was born Aug. 26, 1993, according to the official 2004, 2005 and 2006 national registration lists previously posted on the General Administration of Sport of China website, the Associated Press has reported. That means Yang is still 14, with her 15th birthday approaching.

But, interestingly enough, on the 2007 registration list, her birthday became Aug. 26, 1992.

How about He Kexin, a medal favorite on uneven bars? In articles and registration lists from 2005, 2006 and 2007, found by The New York Times and the Associated Press, she was born Jan. 1, 1994. Oh-oh.

But her Chinese passport says she was born Jan. 1, 1992. (Doesn't this happen with aging Hollywood actresses, only in reverse?)

And Jiang Yuyuan, another pillar of China's team? A list of competitors at a 2007 provincial competition listed an Oct. 1, 1993, birth date.

The passport? No problem. Nov. 1, 1991.

No matter how significant the other evidence, those passports, issued by the Chinese government, trump all. "The International Gymnastics Federation strictly verified their passports and confirmed that their ages met the age rules for participating in the world championship, World Cup and Olympics," the Chinese Gymnastics Association said in a statement.

<_<:angry:

Whatever~I'll rather be interested in BBC than this kind of ''exclusive'', it seems like TODAY USA working for Chinese government.

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Jesus and I thought there will be some constructive discussion here over the exciting Team event results. All I see are a whole bunch of people displaying a wonderful brand of sportsmanship. Until any of those rumours are verifiable, it is completely premature to call anyone a cheat. This is a serious insult to the sportspeople who toil so hard to achieve what they have done.

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I think the Chinese gymnasts were of legal age. Like Baron said, Asian genes age more slowly (and gracefully) than the others. For example, I'm already 23 but people still think I'm younger than 20. ;)

The Wikipedia entries of most of the Chinese gymnasts now have 'disputed' beside the date of birth entry. If Karolyi didn't go hysterical about it, would others have noticed it?

In the end, it was about performance. China clearly did better than the USA team. And if it was indeed true that some of the Chinese gymnasts were below the age requirement, then their superb performance becomes even more laudable.

Here's an interesting op-ed on this 'perennial problem': http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/g...o&type=lgns

You may be right and, indeed, the voice of reason here! However, it does smack of the Soviet era where girls were force fed pills to keep them 'young' in looks and body so they could carry on competing. I am seriously worried, and I am not American! It is certainly documented that the Chinese have followed the Soviet style 'sporting factories'. I find all that extremely against the 'amateur' nature of the games!

Edited by BethnalGreen
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By the way, I don't understand a single point about How Gymnastics chould be called CHEATING as this sport generally based on team work/talent/professionalism unlike others involved heavily with strength and power....or even dopping?

You need to read a little more closely before making such posts. We were talking about what is potentially a cheating that occurred on the Chinese Ladies Gymnastics team. The International rules are that the gymnasts have to be 16. There is speculation and what appears facts evolving that show that the Chinese may not have followed the rules.

Here's a definition of "Cheating" btw:

1 a: to practice fraud or trickery b: to violate rules dishonestly <cheat at cards> <cheating on a test>

Whatever~I'll rather be interested in BBC than this kind of ''exclusive'', it seems like TODAY USA working for Chinese government.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Well feel free to surf the internet and find the source that you prefer because it is all over the news today

In the end, it was about performance. China clearly did better than the USA team. And if it was indeed true that some of the Chinese gymnasts were below the age requirement, then their superb performance becomes even more laudable.

As I said, they did do a better job than us - no question there. However IF there was cheating (and there may not have been - that will only be discovered if a protest is filed), it is not laudible when one has an age advantage over all the other teams in the competition.

Edited by LA84
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You may be right and, indeed, the voice of reason here! However, it does smack of the Soviet era where girls were force fed pills to keep them 'young' in looks and body so they could carry on competing. I am seriously worried, and I am not American! It is certainly documented that the Chinese have followed the Soviet style 'sporting factories'. I find all that extremely against the 'amateur' nature of the games!

Well~Because China has sports schools~That's one of the route for some kids to fullfill their life-time dreams~but not particularly being discribed as ''sporting factories'', Nobody one time would be able to force you to do sports if you just not showing any potentials and talents by yourself. I wonder if somebody still thinking this kind of sth came out againest 'amateur'' nature, I would rather say Iraqi athelets did train very non-amateur and hard while the time they should have all been staying at home for protecting themselves properly from roadside bombs and bullets.

Does dopping incluses the 'amateur nature'. what a contrast and concept twisting.

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You need to read a little more closely before making such posts. We were talking about what is potentially a cheating that occurred on the Chinese Ladies Gymnastics team. The International rules are that the gymnasts have to be 16. There is speculation and what appears facts evolving that show that the Chinese may not have followed the rules.

Here's a definition of "Cheating" btw:

1 a: to practice fraud or trickery b: to violate rules dishonestly <cheat at cards> <cheating on a test>

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Well feel free to surf the internet and find the source that you prefer because it is all over the news today

Well~then to ask the Justice Court for the actual proof, that's rather more solid then a mouthpiece report only after the competition as they won it. That's just like saying ''Ouch, I might gotchya but I just enjoying bitching at you~". No wonder other newsagents discribing Chinese Teams were ultimately superb aren't giving any more valuable judgement than this kind of USA Crying Team disappointment.

AND PLUS why would I have to care about what this sort of mourning all the time, I'll rather have given more time to enjoy the replay of the competition.

I think USA Team done a great job~but it just seems they need more confidence in themselves anyway~

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oh and did everyone miss the part where the AP did their homework and came to the conclusion that these girls were not 16? i mean, sure, the AP does make mistakes, but this isn't just one girl we're talking about here. it's nearly the whole team.

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Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty - I thought these were western values!

Where in any of my posts did I declare that the Chineese cheated? However, when I go to a lunch meeting today and my staff is discussing whether the Chinese gymnasts were legal or not (without me saying anything) it kind of tells me there are questions. And the world press is questioning it. So there are questions out there.

Maryjane - you are better than that. The filing of a protest I was referring to is the same procedures that the Koreans did 4 years ago when they protested Paul Hamms gold - with the International Gymnastics Federation or whatever it is called. Apparently the U.S. is not going to file such a protest, but as good as the Chinese girls were - and they were better than the US gymnasts - there will always be a question mark whether they cheated or not.

Hey - it wouldn't be an Olympics unless there was a figure skating or gymnastics controversy! :blink:

Edited by LA84
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I think the Chinese have more to lose in fudging the girls' ages than they have to gain. They have hundreds of candidates to choose from. The Chinese gymnastics officials would not risk this kind of trickery ONLY to have it blow up on their faces later on -- AND THEN GET SANCTIONED from their bosses in the Politburo. They would lose their careers, their special perks, maybe even their lives.

ANd I did read somewhere that the Chinese purged their ranks of all druggies, etc., at least 2 years ago to ensure that their participation and sweep of their Games would be squeaky and legitimately clean. I really don't see them risking all that with "aged' athletes. They've gotten more sophisticated than that and they know the scrutiny that the west and its press would put them through.

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I think the Chinese have more to lose in fudging the girls' ages than they have to gain. They have hundreds of candidates to choose from. The Chinese gymnastics officials would not risk this kind of trickery ONLY to have it blow up on their faces later on -- AND THEN GET SANCTIONED from their bosses in the Politburo. They would lose their careers, their special perks, maybe even their lives.

They have done it before - about 5-8 years ago I believe. Other countries have as well.

People will do anything when they are pressured to win. Remember '76 when the Soviet fencer was discovered to have a button on his epee to score points?

And of course our own Marion Jones, etc. scandals.

Edited by LA84
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They have done it before - about 5-8 years ago I believe. Other countries have as well.

People will do anything when they are pressured to win. Remember '76 when the Soviet fencer was discovered to have a button on his epee to score points?

And of course our own Marion Jones, etc. scandals.

If there is anything to be understood about the Chinese (and by extension, Eastern Asia), it is the value of face, which is of utmost importance to them. Never will the Chinese wish to be caught red-handed for something like this, when as mentioned, they have a wealth of talent to choose from. They may be pressured to win, but to win by cheating is an extremely serious lost of face, and they know it. In no way is there any credibility in trying to compare them with the Eastern side of the iron curtain for whatever the later may have done. In comparison, they have hardly anything to loose.

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Yeah, that judging was shady, but still, it's no surprise that we went 1 and 2.

Kind of harsh if not pointless to say this on my part, but I wonder why Nastia wasn't in one single NBC promo (that I can remember at least), but Shawn was like in every single one.

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Yeah, that judging was shady, but still, it's no surprise that we went 1 and 2.

Kind of harsh if not pointless to say this on my part, but I wonder why Nastia wasn't in one single NBC promo (that I can remember at least), but Shawn was like in every single one.

Nastia (I hate that name -- almost like Cruella!) was in one NBC promo.

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