CAPE TOWN 2020

[Sir Rols 1902]

We've all discussed the negative effect of Brazil WC 2014 on Rio's 2016 bid, and also noted how South Africa are more fortunate for the ten year gap between their world cup hosting and expected bid. It's distant enough not to impact sponsorships, financing etc, yet close enough to demonstrate expertise and leave some legacy infrastructure even before the bid.

But if Abuja were to lose its 2014 Commonwealth Games bid this week, there's also expectation that Durban would bid for the 2018 CWGs. How would this affect a 2020 Olympic Bid. Could two major events of the scope of the Olympic and CW games in the same country, but in different cities, in the space of two years be as much a hindrance as WC 2014 is on Rio? If South Africa was still interested in the CWGs, would it be wiser to go with Capetown for both, using 2018 as a test event for 2020? How serious are either city's ambitions?

[baron-pierreIV 1700]

We've all discussed the negative effect of Brazil WC 2014 on Rio's 2016 bid, and also noted how South Africa are more fortunate for the ten year gap between their world cup hosting and expected bid. It's distant enough not to impact sponsorships, financing etc, yet close enough to demonstrate expertise and leave some legacy infrastructure even before the bid.

But if Abuja were to lose its 2014 Commonwealth Games bid this week, there's also expectation that Durban would bid for the 2018 CWGs. How would this affect a 2020 Olympic Bid. Could two major events of the scope of the Olympic and CW games in the same country, but in different cities, in the space of two years be as much a hindrance as WC 2014 is on Rio? If South Africa was still interested in the CWGs, would it be wiser to go with Capetown for both, using 2018 as a test event for 2020? How serious are either city's ambitions?

If the 2010 WC is a bang-up job (and 2016 goes to the North -- not to the South), then it doesn't matter whether Durban or Capetown gets the 2018 CWG. (However, of course, if Abuja gets 2014, then that kills any RSA 2018 CWG hopes). If Capetown went for CWG 2018 and SOG 2020, I don't think the CWG would be a hindrance in the way WC 2014 will be for Rio's bid. A Capetown 2018 CWG would be a perfect warm-up for a 2020 WOG. So 2010 will be CT's passport to 2020 (altho form what Mo says, the finals will be in Jo'burg rather than Capetown).

But the all important thing for the RSA is that Rio MUST not get 2016 because that will virtually kill a Capetown 2020 SOGs.

[Sir Rols 1902]

If the 2010 WC is a bang-up job (and 2016 goes to the North -- not to the South), then it doesn't matter whether Durban or Capetown gets the 2018 CWG. (However, of course, if Abuja gets 2014, then that kills any RSA 2018 CWG hopes). If Capetown went for CWG 2018 and SOG 2020, I don't think the CWG would be a hindrance in the way WC 2014 will be for Rio's bid. A Capetown 2018 CWG would be a perfect warm-up for a 2020 WOG. So 2010 will be CT's passport to 2020 (altho form what Mo says, the finals will be in Jo'burg rather than Capetown).

But the all important thing for the RSA is that Rio MUST not get 2016 because that will virtually kill a Capetown 2020 SOGs.

I certainly agree that that's the case if CAPETOWN were to bid for the 2018 CWGs and 2020 SOGs (depending, of course, on all the other contingencies). But it does seem Durban is making the loudest noises re a 2018 CWGs. I can't see that doubling up and reinventing the wheel in two separate cities for two major tournaments two years apart could be that good.

[baron-pierreIV 1700]

I certainly agree that that's the case if CAPETOWN were to bid for the 2018 CWGs and 2020 SOGs (depending, of course, on all the other contingencies). But it does seem Durban is making the loudest noises re a 2018 CWGs. I can't see that doubling up and reinventing the wheel in two separate cities for two major tournaments two years apart could be that good.

How many CWG sports overly the SOG slate? Maybe that will determine whether Pretoria willl back a 2018 CWG Durban bid or Capetown (and of course, which province will also contribute more to the budget). But maybe the 2014 announcement will lay any 2018 RSA CWG hopes to rest.

[Sir Rols 1902]

But maybe the 2014 announcement will lay any 2018 RSA CWG hopes to rest.

Yeah, true, getting ahead of myself thinking of the various implications depending on how the 2014 vote goes next week.

I suppose for once we are having a CWGs vote where the results will have some sort of implications on the 2020 race, and South Africa's chances in it.

How many CWG sports overly the SOG slate?

A fair majority of them _ certainly the most high profile events _ athletics, swiming, cycling, gymnastics etc. There's probably only about half a dozen Commonwealth Specific sports, including the core compulsory sports of netball, lawn bowls, rugby and ... and ... another one that slips my mind at the moment.

[Rafa 43]

I don't think Cape Town should bid for the CWG. I also think we all know which city will get the backing of the private sector.

Durban is very ambitious, so much so that an important person part of the 2010 team for the city said that Durban would "Definitely" bid for the 2016 games. That does say a lot about what goes on in her head and how much she understands the various phases of bidding.

What Cape Town needs to do is talk to IOC members at the 2010 FIFA World Cup and get itself ready. It would follow the same route as Chicago with a temporary stadium. Just looking at some of the plans during 1997 and today

1. Planned convention centre - opened in 2003, today will double in size in its first four years of operation, host 1 in every 4 international meeting in Africa, Cape Town ranked 29th best convention city, Africa's best convention centre

2. Good Hope Centre(planned to host table tennis) - just hosted the ITTF cadet challenge and junior circuit finals, cape town to host 2011 world junior champs

3. Stellenbosch(planned to host modern pentathlon) - has hosted world cup finals in biathle, touch rugby world cup, a rugby world cup match, the mountain biking venue is in regular use and hosts various competitions

4. Proposed arena(remember this was not finalized) - it opened last month, seats 6,000, the grand west casino not built in 1997 is the western capes second most popular leisure destination, coming second to our waterfront and beating out table mountain, it is also the largest casino complex in south africa

5. IOC Hotel - under construction in 1997 - today the waterfront is worth $7 billion dollars, sold to Dubaiworld and L&R and will get another $1 billion before 2010

6. Green Point Stadium(planned to host tennis) - now demolished, replaced by 68,000 seat football stadium

7. New tennis centre to be built at Green Point

8. Velodrome - hosted 1997 world junior champs, hosted a Beijing 2008 qualifier, will host world junior champs next year again, has been cape towns main concert venue for 10 years, will receive upgrade before 2010

9. Hartleyvale Hockey stadium - 1995 olympic qualifying tournament, recently resurfaced, in regular use by all hockey clubs

10. Planned olympic park site - today it sits adjacent to the fastest growing property development area in cape town(century city)

11. beach volleyball - camps bay proposed in 1997 and it has since hosted fivb world tour matches

12. athlone stadium(basic upgrade to 20,000 in 1997 bid book) - today in the final phases of construction and will seat 40,000

On a negative note:

-minor improvements to public transport(but will change before 2010)

-none of the 50m pools are Fina approved or are able to host FINA events

- no olympic stadium

[Rafa 43]

Concept

Cape Town 2020 Concept

[Alexjc 354]

With Glasgow taking the 2014 CWGs, will this open up the possibility of Port Elizabeth, Durban, Johannesburg going after the 2018 bid? This would leave Cape Town alone to gun for 2020...

This would only leave a two year gap, but we just have to look at the UK to see that this will not be a problem.

[Sir Rols 1902]

Though we are talking about a country where, rightly or wrongly, there are going to be some concerns about spreading resources too thin in going after two large-scale events in two cities in close time proximity to each other. Maybe not as bad as the Brazil WC-Oly concerns, but an issue nonetheless.

I wouldn't be surprised if South Africa sits out the 2018 CWG race again. Remember, they were strongly expected to bid for 2014 as well. I would not blame them if they decided to keep their eye on the main prize and leave their African brothers a free run again.

[james 1]

Leave SA and Nigeria out of this. Another African Commonwealth members' city can bid.

[Rafa 43]

why? because you say so?

Think ill complete a Cape Town 2020 application file by Jan before leaving for london and maybe the glasgow

[james 1]

why? because you say so?

Think ill complete a Cape Town 2020 application file by Jan before leaving for london and maybe the glasgow

Make room for others,Bro!

[NYCD 2012 3]

In English, it means "If Nigeria doesn't get the CWG , South Africa can't host anymore Major Sports festivals!"

[james 1]

In English, it means "If Nigeria doesn't get the CWG , South Africa can't host anymore Major Sports festivals!"

Of course not!

Hey! Do you ever understand what I say?

[Citius Altius Fortius 560]

@ MoRush,

I don't know if you did it in another thread before, but would you mind to post a list of the proposed venues for a 2020 bid of Cape Town, with the locations of the different venues? I do want to look into google maps and get an impression of the proposed bid.

thanks in advance

[Rafa 43]

@ MoRush,

I don't know if you did it in another thread before, but would you mind to post a list of the proposed venues for a 2020 bid of Cape Town, with the locations of the different venues? I do want to look into google maps and get an impression of the proposed bid.

thanks in advance

Venues, Existing, Planned, New and costs in 2007 (which will need to change to costs 2020!)

also some changes will be made to this, this was done a few months based on the 2016 bid

The few changes would be:

-Sailing moved to the City Centre( from Simons Town to Table Bay)

Venues under existing would exist by 2010

-Green Point Stadium

-Phillipi Stadium

-Moses Mabhida Stadium

Existing venue not to be used - Sea Point Pavillion

Planned venues

- The Cape Town Superbowl was completed last month

- The Convention Centre expansion will be complete by 2010 and should be moved to existing

- Green Point Tennis Centre would be complete by 2010 and should be moved to existing

Athlone Arena will not be permanent but will comprise of 3 different temporary pavillions adjacent to Athlone stadium

Pavillions at Phillipi be discarded. Instead volleyball will move to temporary pavillion at Athlone and Table Tennis to the Convention Centre.

* Changes were made to ensure that two Major clusters exist with to sub-clusters

Venues

[Citius Altius Fortius 560]

Venues, Existing, Planned, New and costs in 2007 (which will need to change to costs 2020!)

also some changes will be made to this, this was done a few months based on the 2016 bid

The few changes would be:

-Sailing moved to the City Centre( from Simons Town to Table Bay)

Venues under existing would exist by 2010

-Green Point Stadium

-Phillipi Stadium

-Moses Mabhida Stadium

Existing venue not to be used - Sea Point Pavillion

Planned venues

- The Cape Town Superbowl was completed last month

- The Convention Centre expansion will be complete by 2010 and should be moved to existing

- Green Point Tennis Centre would be complete by 2010 and should be moved to existing

Athlone Arena will not be permanent but will comprise of 3 different temporary pavillions adjacent to Athlone stadium

Pavillions at Phillipi be discarded. Instead volleyball will move to temporary pavillion at Athlone and Table Tennis to the Convention Centre.

* Changes were made to ensure that two Major clusters exist with to sub-clusters

Venues

well, thanks Mo Rush,

but I meant - that you write down the name of district or the street on which the venue is standing or will be built...

[Rafa 43]

City and Waterfront ( 10 sports)

1.Granger Bay Triathlon, Cycling (Road) 3000 - Green Point

2.Cape Town International

Convention Centre Wrestling, Badminton, Fencing, Table Tennis - City Centre

3.Table Bay Harbour Sailing 5000

4.Green Point Stadium Football

5. Good Hope Centre Boxing,Basketball - City Centre

6. Green Point Tennis Centre - Green Point

Olympic Park Zone (ill post an image)

1. Olympic Stadium

2. Aquatic Centre

3. Park Arena 1 - Handball

4. Park Arena 2 - Gymnastics

5. Rowing/Canoe Course

6. Cape Town Superbowl

7. BMX Park

Sub-clusters

Newlands

1. Newlands Stadium

2. Newlands Cricket Stadium - Archery

3. Newlands Swimming Centre - Waterpolo

Athlone

1. Athlone Stadium

2. Temporary pavillions - Volleyball, Judo, Taekwondo

Stand Alone venues

1. Modern Pentathlon and Mountain Bike - Stellenbosch

2. Hockey - Hartleyvale (Observatory)

3. Velodrome - Bellville

4. Equestrian - Kenilworth Racecourse

5. Football - Phillipi Stadium

6. Berg River - Paarl

Use Google earth community to find them or ask.

[Citius Altius Fortius 560]

thanks very very much Mo Rush,

I have already started to search for the venues - I have already a question:

1. The Convention Center is really close to the water front - is it difficult for pedestrian to walk from the convention center over the Eastern Boulevard to get to the water?

I will look further and will post some questions later of this week...

[Rafa 43]

thanks very very much Mo Rush,

I have already started to search for the venues - I have already a question:

1. The Convention Center is really close to the water front - is it difficult for pedestrian to walk from the convention center over the Eastern Boulevard to get to the water?

I will look further and will post some questions later of this week...

1. This is an image of the expansion to be complete by 2010. Basically repeating the same design on the opposite of Eastern Boulevard

The exhibition halls at the bottom left will be built, while the top set are existing.

2. In terms of access, A Canal exists linking the convention centre to the waterfront, Full access by 2010 since Sol Kerzners 7 star One&Only hotel is being built at the edge of the canal linking the ocean to the canal

http://www.flickr.com/photos/carnun/433331274/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/carnun/434880885/

3. Pedestrian access is a big issue since tourists have been killed at a very busy intersection. The city will resolve this through significant pedestrian networks from now to 2010, since the FIFA Fan mile will run from the city to the stadium, which is adjacent to the waterfront. While pavements etc. exist from the convention centre to the waterfront, bridges etc will need to be built.

Oh and Eastern boulevard is elevated so they can move under it, but they need to move around the convention centre, through the city to get to the waterfront

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&am...23453706C693855

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=6&am...95934816C478357

[Rafa 43]

Vehicle/pedestrian access in blue

Canal/ferry access in red - but will only re-open in 2010 since developments along the canal are taking place and the hotel at the part of the canal connecting the city to the ocean/waterfront

[NYCD 2012 3]

Lovely ! Thanks Mo ! Is there a helipad on the building near it ?

[Citius Altius Fortius 560]

wow - thanks very much for this information Mo Rush - it is very interesting that the waterfront in Cape Town haven't been a promenade for pedestrian so far - and I am very glad that it will be changed until 2010

[Rafa 43]

Well the waterfront has new owners, Dubaiworld and London&Regional, who bought it for $1 billion.

They will spent $1 billion over the next 3-5 years, including 6 hotels, public space upgrade, possible tram/rail link,cruise terminal.

All the information: Waterfront plans to 2010

Dubaiworld and L&R might also fund part of the boulevard linking the stadium to the waterfront.

This is the plan for the Green Point precinct

Tennis, Triathlon, Football

[Citius Altius Fortius 560]

... the olympic stadium will be build in the urban park?

I hope Dubaiworld won't built too many hotels at the waterfront - it should be a mixture between public space and hotels, shopping centers, etc, etc.