Jump to content

Seperate Stadiums


Recommended Posts

  • 1 month later...
  • Replies 101
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Although Rio's venue plan is a bit bubbled it does have the benefit of having such broad support and clear goals in planning. If indeed the T&F venue is different from the opening ceremonies venue it would have one big benefit, and that's the flexibility to schedule and spread out T&F events (possibly more ticket sales?) into more days because of the time not needed to shift the stadium from ceremony mode to competition mode.

Also, if Rio wins the favelas will be as the hype over Tibet is to the Beijing games. :)

Link to post
Share on other sites
Although Rio's venue plan is a bit bubbled it does have the benefit of having such broad support and clear goals in planning. If indeed the T&F venue is different from the opening ceremonies venue it would have one big benefit, and that's the flexibility to schedule and spread out T&F events (possibly more ticket sales?) into more days because of the time not needed to shift the stadium from ceremony mode to competition mode.

Also, if Rio wins the favelas will be as the hype over Tibet is to the Beijing games. :)

What are you talking about? The reason they have chosen Maracana as the ceremonies venue was simple, it's larger capacity. The Olympic Stadium has a limit of 60,000 when upgraded, they obviously want more spectators present during the ceremonies, not to mention that Maracana is also a landmark, not just a stadium.

Flexibility? Surely it doesn't take too long to remove props, sets and what nots from the the field after the opening ceremony, to permit athletics competitions the next day (that is of course if the ceremonies venue is the same for athletics, same would also go for Winter Olympic ceremonies which are held in say the speed skating oval or ski jump).

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...
I don't care about Maracana's larger capacity or the fact that it has a circular shape. Rio may just have to make like Barcelona in 1992 and allow the bigger stadium to host the soccer final like Camp Nou.

there is no reason Marcanas could not be the Main Athletes venue either . They have the floor Space. 185 metres are required from outside radius of turn to the opposite end and they have that. I think you will still see a end zone roof removal between 2014 and 2016 at JH stadium increasing the capacity to 85000 event the end ramps outside JV look like they could be the entry to the temporary Seating.

Jim jones

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...
I notice that Rio's plans call for using seperate stadiums for the track and field competition (Joao Havelange) and the ceremonies (Maracana). This goes against the norm. Any chance this could hurt Rio's bid in the eyes of the IOC?

Not the first time it happends in a bid.

In Paris 1992 bid book, the Opening Ceremony was planned to be in the heart of the city on the "Champs Elysees"

Link to post
Share on other sites
Not the first time it happends in a bid.

In Paris 1992 bid book, the Opening Ceremony was planned to be in the heart of the city on the "Champs Elysees"

well, yeah, memorabilia, but that doesn't count because the IOC has never liked or APPROVED of Ceremonies out in the Open -- where crowds AND the event CANNOT be controlled.

A better comparison is actually the Winter Games -- Lake Placid, Sarajevo, Salt Lake City and Torino Games had their Ceremonies in regular stadia-Ceremonies-only stadia.

Link to post
Share on other sites
well, yeah, memorabilia, but that doesn't count because the IOC has never liked or APPROVED of Ceremonies out in the Open -- where crowds AND the event CANNOT be controlled.

A better comparison is actually the Winter Games -- Lake Placid, Sarajevo, Salt Lake City and Torino Games had their Ceremonies in regular stadia-Ceremonies-only stadia.

I agree, IOC doesn't like the idea for SOG. Paris 1992 lost the race (may be not the reason.... ;) ) and we will see next year for Rio 2016. Not sure it could be the point that will make the difference, but for sure IAAF will not like that, not to be in the Main Olympic Stadium with the flame.

For WOG, it's totally different. You are forced to fin a temporary venue or a stadium with high capacity. You do not have any event stadium with a high capacity of seats (generally around 7000 except some ice rink over 10000)

Link to post
Share on other sites

See for New York 1984 and Washington DC 2012, they had plans of holding the OCs down Broadway (in NYC) , and the Mall in DC. Both bids didn't even get to the Applicant stage. I mean the OCOG will lose Millions of dollars if they hold the OCs in an open, uncontrolled space; not to mention security concerns -- especially after the intense reactions against this year's Torch Relay, having an Olympic Ceremony out in the open is an invitation to chaos.

Rio will be fine w/ one stadia for Ceremonies and another for the T&F. Shouldn't be an issue. As a matter of fact, it would be less hectic for the Closing Ceremony since they will have a full 2 weeks to rehearse it onsite.

Link to post
Share on other sites

^^I don't know. The IOC never usually approves of two separate stadiums for the ceremonies and Athletics. That is probably one of the primary reasons why I'm against the Rio 2016 bid. The 1900 Olympics in Paris had the Velodrome de Vincennes as the main venue, and it also served as the track cycling and gymnastics venue. Athletics was held at a different venue.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I just hope it was all held in Havelange Stadium, its Latins America most modern and way better than Maracana where the Pans ceremony took place and only soccer games would be held. Its a risky decision for Rio so i guess they shud discard it.. ;)

Link to post
Share on other sites
See for New York 1984 and Washington DC 2012, they had plans of holding the OCs down Broadway (in NYC) , and the Mall in DC. Both bids didn't even get to the Applicant stage. I mean the OCOG will lose Millions of dollars if they hold the OCs in an open, uncontrolled space; not to mention security concerns -- especially after the intense reactions against this year's Torch Relay, having an Olympic Ceremony out in the open is an invitation to chaos.

Rio will be fine w/ one stadia for Ceremonies and another for the T&F. Shouldn't be an issue. As a matter of fact, it would be less hectic for the Closing Ceremony since they will have a full 2 weeks to rehearse it onsite.

Having the Ceremonies out in the open could work, but only if key points are put into action.

Firstly, the area designated for spectators and performances should be within a secured security perimeter.

National flags to be located in or around the ceremonies venue.

Entrances, ticketing turnstiles and security checkpoints will be along the fenced area of the ceremonies zone.

Designated "gate" for athletes, performers and movement of props.

Large video screens are a must.

Spectators are expected to sit in temporary stands (individual seating ideally, with the necessary press boxes, sky boxes and camera stands).

Stands are to b separated from the actual performance area (by fencing or being elevated).

Concessions and facilities are to be located within the security area of the ceremonies venue.

Olympic torch would be inside the venue.

Essentially, it could work, though there is a lot of necessary stuff in order to make it effective, and all the ambiance is left out should the erection of stands for spectators is put in place. Alternatively, it could be like an open amphitheater showing the view as most important than the setting and location. But of course, having a designated ceremonies venue, ideally the athletics stadium or a larger venue if available (an ideal alternative to a large football stadium would be say a modified racecourse or a section of a motor race track).

Link to post
Share on other sites

:blink:

1. well, isn't that what Chicago's proposing?

2. what you're saying...and I have a hard time digesting what you write... is well...why NOT just have a regular stadium...temporary or not?

The whole point of those 'open' Ceremonies were...like a 'free' parade... and it would be free.. NO ADMISSION. The show/essentially, just the Parade of Nations would move on while the non-paying spactators just stay on the sidelines, coming AND going as they please...and hoping EVERY viewer is an upright, outstanding, disciplined goodfellow with NO NEED to present credentials or be searched.

In an open society? Yeah, right. :rolleyes:

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...
Having the Ceremonies out in the open could work, but only if key points are put into action.

Firstly, the area designated for spectators and performances should be within a secured security perimeter.

National flags to be located in or around the ceremonies venue.

Entrances, ticketing turnstiles and security checkpoints will be along the fenced area of the ceremonies zone.

Designated "gate" for athletes, performers and movement of props.

Large video screens are a must.

Spectators are expected to sit in temporary stands (individual seating ideally, with the necessary press boxes, sky boxes and camera stands).

Stands are to b separated from the actual performance area (by fencing or being elevated).

Concessions and facilities are to be located within the security area of the ceremonies venue.

Olympic torch would be inside the venue.

Essentially, it could work, though there is a lot of necessary stuff in order to make it effective, and all the ambiance is left out should the erection of stands for spectators is put in place. Alternatively, it could be like an open amphitheater showing the view as most important than the setting and location. But of course, having a designated ceremonies venue, ideally the athletics stadium or a larger venue if available (an ideal alternative to a large football stadium would be say a modified racecourse or a section of a motor race track).

Or a giant urban Park which Chicago has a few of. Certainly an opening ceremony on a terraced green which spectators could be given special Chicago 2016 Lawn chairs as souvenirs would be unique. A opening like that could involve many more spectators then the 91000 for Beijing. Who knows the security perimeter could be a wall of ITU shipping container converted to temporary Corporate Suites.

Jim jones

Link to post
Share on other sites

A month ago while I was visting London, I read in the local press that the London 2012 Comittee is planning to change the protocol of the olympic ceremonies and make something on the Thames. I'm not sure how sure is that... and unfortunately I can't quote that new now, but Baron, have you ever heard something about that for the next 2012 OC?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I heard about it. But they did something similar for Seoul and the 2006 Melbourne CWG. The one in Melbourne was nice but it really only affects one person in one place. I mean one can't be BOTH by the river and in the stadium at the same time, so...I don't know that it's really going to be a big deal. All it says is "Wow! They were abl e to stage 2 spectacular things at the same time!!" But really, so what??

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...

A recent article posted on GamesBids.com saying that the Maracana Stadium may serve as the main stadium and be the athletics venue has got be thinking about starting a poll asking which will be the main stadium for Rio 2016. The choices would be Maracana Stadium (fitted with an athletics track), or a 60k-capacity Engenhao stadium. Unfortunately, only a premium member can do this job.

Link to post
Share on other sites
A recent article posted on GamesBids.com saying that the Maracana Stadium may serve as the main stadium and be the athletics venue has got be thinking about starting a poll asking which will be the main stadium for Rio 2016. The choices would be Maracana Stadium (fitted with an athletics track), or a 60k-capacity Engenhao stadium. Unfortunately, only a premium member can do this job.

There are conflicting reports about this: it is not quite clear to me whether T&F will take place at Maracana Stadium, which would be new, or in Maracan zone, which has always been the plan. Since Maracana stadium is to host the WC final in 2014, I find it highly unlikely it will be fitted with a track.

Link to post
Share on other sites
A recent article posted on GamesBids.com saying that the Maracana Stadium may serve as the main stadium and be the athletics venue has got be thinking about starting a poll asking which will be the main stadium for Rio 2016. The choices would be Maracana Stadium (fitted with an athletics track), or a 60k-capacity Engenhao stadium. Unfortunately, only a premium member can do this job.

And how would that really matter, Jim? We are in NO position to influence what Rio 2016 will do or decide. So what's the point?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...
Fine, I hope Rio drops out of the race for the 2016 Olympics because of this issue. I hate Rio de Janeiro.

Such a good point...

In fact i´m here to make my point:

I´m carioca. I do live in Rio and i do sufer all it´s problems. I was an ablaze supporter of all the movements involving major sports events, including panam games, and it was really a great moment in the city history, it was a beautiful party. But after the party we (citzens) received the bill. And it stills unpaid. The city is broken and out off shine. And a year and a half after the party i question myself if the panam legacy is just insecurity, corruption, abandon, bumpy streets, homeless,... or is something good that i can´t realize that is really changed. The cost of the games was so high and who´s paing for? I cannot imagine the situation if it was the Olympics, that have much more complexity and so much higher costs.

So. I won´t support the olympic games in 2016, not because i hate my city, unlike. Because i love it and i don´t think Rio´s people needs it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Such a good point...

In fact i´m here to make my point:

I´m carioca. I do live in Rio and i do sufer all it´s problems. I was an ablaze supporter of all the movements involving major sports events, including panam games, and it was really a great moment in the city history, it was a beautiful party. But after the party we (citzens) received the bill. And it stills unpaid. The city is broken and out off shine. And a year and a half after the party i question myself if the panam legacy is just insecurity, corruption, abandon, bumpy streets, homeless,... or is something good that i can´t realize that is really changed. The cost of the games was so high and who´s paing for? I cannot imagine the situation if it was the Olympics, that have much more complexity and so much higher costs.

So. I won´t support the olympic games in 2016, not because i hate my city, unlike. Because i love it and i don´t think Rio´s people needs it.

/\ /\ You didn't even mention the 2014 World Cup -- which is your committed priority as of now.

Link to post
Share on other sites

no government really care about the poor and the needed, and theyll do nothign about it, itll be the same shhit 4eva. its a shame. Like in rio, chicago, all of these bad stuff is so visible, and in China id say its somewhat worse but we just cant see iguess and they hosted. But im still supporter of rio and chicago and i hope they get it..so what?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I frankly don't get why Maracana is being floated for Athletics Stadium as the plans for JV have been on the boards for years.

Madrid 2016 is bidding with a 60000 seat stadium for athletics for the final capacity. JV will be that for 2014 and then Easily take off the End roofs that are not needed for the olympics and add 10000 temporary seats on each end to get up to the 80000 capacity that is the standard for the Main Athletics Stadium for the summer Games.

Maracana's problem is not the floor Space or Capacity . it is the Area Surrounding the Stadium and whether you can get a piece of land with the 400 meter practice track . Unless Maracana was to go underground with that requirement making a basement underneath the Main Pitch ???? JH Stadium would pretty much be for Soccer which would certainly waste what they have there now.

Jim jones

Link to post
Share on other sites
There are conflicting reports about this: it is not quite clear to me whether T&F will take place at Maracana Stadium, which would be new, or in Maracan zone, which has always been the plan. Since Maracana stadium is to host the WC final in 2014, I find it highly unlikely it will be fitted with a track.
In two years post the WC 2014 a Track could be fitted in as Maracana is kind of like Melbourne's Cricket Grounds .

A huge floor Space that can have 15 million US for a Crushed Stone, Asphalt and then Rubberized top surface for the Tartan Field. 15 US was Melbourne's cost for the 2006 transformation to put in take out and returf for the main use of that stadium being cricket and Aussie Rules. in Melbourne's case it was about 4 months from start of installing to restoring to orginal condition. In two year Maracana could have a basement under the Pitch installed like the Birds nest has in Beijing.

that could possibly be the reasoning to do this.

Jim jones

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...