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You would hope that the Germans don't continue at that level. All I am saying is that if they do, better teams than Poland will punish them and punish them severely.

Yes, I've understood that. But nevertheless: For God's sake, it was an opening match! And compared to other opening matches of German teams in the past, it was still a remarkable performance. Was England always in top shape in their opening matches at a tournament? So I don't understand why you draw general conclusions from that single match.

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I'm not drawing any conclusions. I've watched enough tournament football over the years to know that the teams which start tournaments the best rarely go on to win them. But, given that the Germans were the pre-tournament favourites, I did expect to see more from them.

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I watched that game twice and Germany played well in almost all positions, Metzelder wasn't the greatest but he just came back from a 6 month layoff. Podolski was considerably better than most thought he would be and Fritz and Schweinsteiger were both better than expected. The only players that need to get things going are Gomez and Metzelder. Germany controlled most of the game, maybe 25 to 30 minutes of actual Polish good play but no finishing so it was like being poked with a blunt stick.

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As for Germany they played ok, but they still don't flow the way a team should. Portugal in the last WM showed a team that flows together. Having said that the Portugal game was not that great. All the opening matches have not been that good.

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I'm not drawing any conclusions. I've watched enough tournament football over the years to know that the teams which start tournaments the best rarely go on to win them. But, given that the Germans were the pre-tournament favourites, I did expect to see more from them.

What are you actually trying to say? In your opinion, Germany didn't play well and will -- if it continues on that level -- not win the title. On the other hand, you say that usually the teams which start tournaments best rarely win them, too.

So what now? Even if Germany had had the match of its life yesterday, it wouldn't win the title in your opinion? :blink:

Anyway, I've had my share of tournaments as well and therefore know: It doesn't count what you do in the opening match, but what you do in the matches to come. Additionally, you seem not to have watched the final test matches of Germany before the EURO. Because if you had, you would have been pleasantly surprised by their performance yesterday. As I said: It was a significant improvement compared to the final test match against Serbia, and even more so the next-to-final test match against Belarus.

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And, by the way: Germany never was the pre-tournament favourite. It was one of the favourites, but with some better odds especially for Italy.

Not over here. Germany has been the pre-tournament favourite with every bookie I've seen for quite a while.

Back to the action. Not good for France. I only caught the last 10 minutes but one of our pundits claimed it was the worst match he'd seen in his life! Glad I missed most of it if that was the case!

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Just finished watching the Romania-France match, and Good Lord that was a freakin horrible match. The attacking chances were few and far between. Maybe I should have just slept in....

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Not over here. Germany has been the pre-tournament favourite with every bookie I've seen.

But bookies are not the ultimate experts in football (or at least not the only ones). I've heard and read lots of comments of football experts (coaches, sports journalists, players etc.) all around Europe, and many of them named Italy as top favourite.

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Well, I think it tells everything that I considered posting in this forum more spectacular than watching that match. ;)

But France already has experience in botching its opening match but coming back nevertheless. Although, in this group, with Romania possibly the weakest of all teams, such a goalless draw could be lethal. This time, there's no South Korea or Togo as life-saver. But let's see first whether the Netherlands and Italy are able to deliver...

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But France already has experience in botching its opening match but coming back nevertheless. Although, in this group, with Romania possibly the weakest of all teams, such a goalless draw could be lethal. This time, there's no South Korea or Togo as life-saver. But let's see first whether the Netherlands and Italy are able to deliver...

That is exactly what I have meant with "this group will become very interesting"

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But bookies are not the ultimate experts in football (or at least not the only ones). I've heard and read lots of comments of football experts (coaches, sports journalists, players etc.) all around Europe, and many of them named Italy as top favourite.

Well, you're the one who brought up the odds! I just thought I'd mention that it varies from country to country. I'm not getting involved in your argument with Arwebb. ;)

But France already has experience in botching its opening match but coming back nevertheless

True, but they also have experience of botching their first match and then botching ever other match after that (WC 2002)! They're an ageing group of players and it may be possible that that's showing (as I say, I didn't see the match; tell me otherwise if you think I'm wrong)

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Well, you're the one who brought up the odds! I just thought I'd mention that it varies from country to country. I'm not getting involved in your argument with Arwebb. ;)

I always thought that "odds" is (although certainly originating from betting) a rather general term for "winning chance". But that's the result if you try to sound skilful in a non-native language. :lol:

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The odds at set by 3 things, the likelihood of winning, the probability of that selection getting bet on and the amount that outcome is bet on. This is all to limit payouts.

Anyways

Go Nederland!!!!

Its unfortunate that van Persie and Robben are not present.

Anyways I was wrong about the score but right about the outcome, I fell proud.

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He was offside. Bullshiit goal

Typically Italian, excuses, excuses, excuses.

Yea it was offside, but oh well, sh!t happens. Just think of it as karma.

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Typically Italian, excuses, excuses, excuses.

Yea it was offside, but oh well, sh!t happens. Just think of it as karma.

Whatever, even the commentators were saying it was offside dumbass.

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