1 Report From The Ny Times

[mpkwokgsb]

For the records, this article from the NY Times, in my very own personal opinion, is not giving the fair share of credits for all the soldiers and medical workers who have been working around the clock for the last few days and have tried their very best in rescuing people.

There is another AP report saying Premier Wen Jiabao does all this rescue directing effort as a show before the Olympics. Come on, for Christ/Budda's sake, stop all this politisizing reporting. They are dealing with an enormous natural disaster that has killed 20,000 people at the minimum. It would be interesting to ask these reporters what they would do if it happens in their own country, and stop this kind of demonizing and irresponsible reporting.

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‘No Hope’ for Children Buried in Earthquake

By EDWARD WONG

DUJIANGYAN, China — The children who were considered fortunate escaped with a broken bone or a severed limb. The others, hundreds of them, were carried out to be buried, and their remaining classmates lay crushed beneath the rubble of the schoolhouse.

Little remained of the original structure of the school. No standing beams, no fragments of walls. The rubble lay low against the wet earth. Dozens of people gathered around in the schoolyard, clawing at the debris, kicking it, screaming at it. Soldiers kept others from entering.

A man and woman walked away from the rubble together. He sheltered her under an umbrella as she wailed, “My child is dead! Dead!”

As dawn crept across this shattered town on Tuesday, it illuminated rows and rows of apartment blocks collapsed into piles, bodies wedged among the debris, homeless families and their neighbors clustered on the roadside, shielding themselves from the downpour with plastic tarps.

The earthquake originated here in the lush farm fields and river valleys of Sichuan Province, killing almost 10,000 people and trapping thousands more.

One of the most jarring tragedies of the disaster was the school collapse in a suburb of Dujiangyan. At least several hundred children were killed, perhaps as many as 900. Prime Minister Wen Jiabao flew here on Monday to survey the destruction, but he was powerless to ease the suffering of the survivors.

In the center of town, a woman said she had called local government officials 10 times to plead for help in rescuing her son and mother, but no one had come.

So on Tuesday morning, she stood crying before the remains of her apartment building. Her 5-month-old son was still buried in there, as was her 56-year-old mother.

“I was outside when the earthquake hit,” said the woman, Wang Xiaoni, 26. “I ran back even while the ground was still shaking.”

She shook her head. “Who’s going to help them now?”

People wandered up and down the street taking photos with cell phones and digital cameras. “This isn’t even the worst-off area,” one man said.

One block over, the façade of a white six-story residential building had sheared off, leaving one side of the apartments open to the air. Each living room had a television set untouched by the earthquake. But in the cascade of rubble at the foot of the building, a lifeless head and arm stuck out of the debris, and another body could be seen on the other side of the mound of rubble.

Across the street, a young man and his older sister walked out of an apartment building with a red duffel bag and armloads of bedding they stacked on the sidewalk.

“Everything in the apartment was destroyed,” said the man, Ji Yongtao, 27, waving a hand up at the second floor. “We need to find a place to live. We’ll spend the night in a building that was recently built, or on the first floor somewhere. We’re not going back up there.”

Dozens of people had gathered on the sidewalk by a major intersection down the street. They were constructing a huge tent, pulling a tarp over upright wooden poles they had lashed together. This would be their home for the day, and maybe the night, and maybe the next few days and nights.

Busloads of soldiers rode past in the street. But there was no immediate help for the people.

“We left with nothing but the clothes we’re wearing,” said Hu Huojin, 38, cradling her 6-year-old son in her arms. “We don’t dare stay in our homes. We’ll return when we’re told it’s safe to go back. Otherwise, we don’t dare live there.”

She gazed out at the wet street.

“I can’t even remember how long the ground shook,” she said. “It was enormous.”

An elderly couple stood under a store awning on the edge of the tent village. The man held the family dog, Chou Mer, but they had not seen their son, a cab driver, since he left home hours before the earthquake.

“We still haven’t heard from him,” said the mother, Yang Limei, 58. “Last night, we kept calling him, but we couldn’t get through. I don’t know what to do. We can’t even wait for him at home.”

Her husband, Chui Xianchao, 63, said, “The walls are still standing, but everything else fell to the ground.”

Ambulances roared by on the way to the hospitals in Chengdu, the provincial capital. Another bus rolled past carrying soldiers.

The army had appropriated public buses throughout the region, and men wearing green fatigues peered out the windows at the homeless in the street.

“No one’s come to help us yet,” Mr. Chui said. “Those soldiers are going somewhere else.”

A few miles to the south, in front of the collapsed school, a half-dozen soldiers linked hands to form a human blockade in front of the rubble. Two women tried to push their way through. The soldiers did not budge.

“There are still children in there, and we can’t help them if you keep trying to get in,” one soldier said.

The only people allowed in were teams of rescue workers and doctors. A group of doctors in white lab coats sat in a bus, waiting their turn to help. Some slept. They said no one had been brought out alive in hours.

[Maryjane]

I meant some of the people, they could blame Communist, Chinese all those stuff whatever they wish, but for this moment, we're all human beings. Where are the brains here? Who have been brain-washed as gone that far? I am feeling so sad for those children and rescuers.

[Sir Rols]

Personally, I think most of the coverage, at least here in Oz, has been very complimentary about the Chinese response, from both the Government and the army. Much has been made in the media about how swift and open the response has been _ lots of kudos to them!

[Olympian2004]

And once again, only the negative reports from Western media are picked out -- while the huge number of positive reports is (deliberately?) ignored.

Anyway, I can confirm that also the German media are mostly very complimentary about the Chinese handling of the crisis and also about the transparency in the Chinese media coverage about the catastrophe.

By the way: It's only natural that whenever politicians appear at the location of a catastrophe, there's the suspicion of the media that the politicians use such an opportunity also to improve their personal or their country's image. The same was the case, for example, shortly before the German parliamentary election 2002 when we had terrible, enormous floods in Eastern Germany. Very soon, then-chancellor Gerhard Schröder appeared at the different locations in wellington boots and consoled the inhabitants who had lost their homes. His opponent Edmund Stoiber (coming from his summer holiday) arrived not earlier than one or two days later at the scene. The German journalists monitored the two candidates' behaviour towards the flood victims closely and later on mostly agreed that chancellor Schröder had received an advantage for the election by presenting himself as a "crisis manager" with fast reactions. Later on, he won the election indeed. The German media are always very attentive to politicians' behaviour after castastrophes -- no matter whether those politicians are German, Chinese or whatever.

So stop that constant "There's an anti-Chinese conspiracy" sniffing. Better face the complete facts and not only selective fragments of them.

[mpkwokgsb]

Personally, I think most of the coverage, at least here in Oz, has been very complimentary about the Chinese response, from both the Government and the army. Much has been made in the media about how swift and open the response has been _ lots of kudos to them!

Dear Sir, agree and point definitely taken. I acknowledge there has been fair reporting but I do want to point out this particular reporting that to my very personal opinion goes off tangent a bit. (big note to other readers on this post: again i respect there are other people who hold different standards and opinions, but please do not take it too personal and go too personal. It's just a discussion forum.)

[mpkwokgsb]

And once again, only the negative reports from Western media are picked out -- while the huge number of positive reports is (deliberately?) ignored.

Anyway, I can confirm that also the German media are mostly very complimentary about the Chinese handling of the crisis and also about the transparency in the Chinese media coverage about the catastrophe.

By the way: It's only natural that whenever politicians appear at the location of a catastrophe, there's the suspicion of the media that the politicians use such an opportunity also to improve their personal or their country's image. The same was the case, for example, shortly before the German parliamentary election 2002 when we had terrible, enormous floods in Eastern Germany. Very soon, then-chancellor Gerhard Schröder appeared at the different locations in wellington boots and consoled the inhabitants who had lost their homes. His opponent Edmund Stoiber (coming from his summer holiday) arrived not earlier than one or two days later at the scene. The German journalists monitored the two candidates' behaviour towards the flood victims closely and later on mostly agreed that chancellor Schröder had received an advantage for the election by presenting himself as a "crisis manager" with fast reactions. Later on, he won the election indeed. The German media are always very attentive to politicians' behaviour after castastrophes -- no matter whether those politicians are German, Chinese or whatever.

So stop that constant "There's an anti-Chinese conspiracy" sniffing. Better face the complete facts and not only selective fragments of them.

Sure, good reporters have every right to question one's motive, but there is a difference between speculation and assertion. You can speculate on one's mind however your want but good and responsible reporting does not assert on one's thinking without injecting some level of subjectivity. I tried looking up this AP article but cannot locate it, but will share if I can find it later.

[Olympian2004]

Sure, good reporters have every right to question one's motive, but there is a difference between speculation and assertion. You can speculate on one's mind however your want but good and responsible reporting does not assert on one's thinking without injecting some level of subjectivity. I tried looking up this AP article but cannot locate it, but will share if I can find it later.

Have you actually understood what I've written? I didn't defend the AP or the New York Times reporter -- but I said that you're talking about only two out of thousands of articles from Western media just to start your "Western media bashing" again. And that's plainly ignorant.

[mpkwokgsb]

Have you actually understood what I've written? I didn't defend the AP or the New York Times reporter -- but I said that you're talking about only two out of thousands of articles from Western media just to start your "Western media bashing" again. And that's plainly ignorant.

sure, whatever, and that's how your logic usually works:

1. pls refer to my response to Sir, where in my whole

2. you might not notice yourself, and I call for comments from other people in this forum. At first I thought it's stand-alone incidents but time has proven it's not. Your tone of comments and the way you put through your comments to other people who are nothing less superior and inferior to yourself just show your plain arrogance. It's just a forum to discuss issues, not a platform for personal accusation. (calling another person having mental problems in other posting? I mean)

For the records, I have enough from you since I join the forum, and I am sure a lot of people share the same feeling. I won't respond to any of your comments, and I hope you won't respond to mine either.

[Olympian2004]

sure, whatever, and that's how your logic usually works:

1. pls refer to my response to Sir, where in my whole

2. you might not notice yourself, and I call for comments from other people in this forum. At first I thought it's stand-alone incidents but time has proven it's not. Your tone of comments and the way you put through your comments to other people who are nothing less superior and inferior to yourself just show your plain arrogance. It's just a forum to discuss issues, not a platform for personal accusation. (calling another person having mental problems in other posting? I mean)

For the records, I have enough from you since I join the forum, and I am sure a lot of people share the same feeling. I won't respond to any of your comments, and I hope you won't respond to mine either.

I won't do you that favour.

Who's actually the real arrogant person here? You use only singular examples as "proof" for your own crude prejudices. All I did was criticising that generalising attitude. I've never denied that there are flawed reports in Western media. But I'm also against starting a witch-hunt because of every single unpleasant article. If we'd start that for every piece of crap said and written by Chinese in the past few months and weeks, the forum would be full of it.

If you find my attitude arrogant -- well, that shows a lot about your ability to take justified criticism. You can't expect to unload your bile in this forum and be applauded for that. Because that's how a forum really works -- criticise others, but also expect yourself to be criticised. But of course, now you'll say that it's the "arrogant Westerner" speaking. It's only funny that also non-Westerners like james recognise the problem with prejudiced people like you.

[mpkwokgsb]

Again, for the records, while I respect the freedom of speech in this forum, I would like to express my right of wish to be not bothered by the constantly rude and personal comments not targeting at the issues but at the persons. I respect your right to express your thoughts, but please at the same time respect my right of wish for having my thread and comments free from rude and personal comments with authoritative and inflicting tone. I am not here to prove I am better or worse than you as a person, and I hope other people won't. You have every right to start your own thread to talk about whatever and however you wish, but please respect my right of wish and leave my threads alone.

Moderator, in every civilizied society with freedom of speech, there are also etiquette and principles to serve and follow. When a majority of the forummers are sitting in a meeting room discussing issues and sharing viewpoints, and there is a few who shout and yell with rude tone and make personal attacks. I would like to express that these comments are not welcome, at least in my meeting room in a meeting I initiated. When there are rude tone like "Have you tried understanding what I have written?" "Prove it!" "Try it again!""That's plain stupid/ignorant!", don't disguise it under the freedom of speech or ability to take criticism, it's about the basic etiquette among people, inside and outside of the forum. Some people don't have it, and I express my right to not welcome them and don't want to be bothered by them.

[Olympian2004]

You perceive simple requests like "Give proof for your allegations" already as a rude, personal attack? Well, then that's a personal problem of yours, and none of the moderator. Actually you yourself shouldn't pretend being a saint -- if you react to criticism by calling other members "arrogant" and alleging that they act as if they're "something superior".

Additionally, this isn't your thread. You opened it, but everyone has the right to take part in the discussion. So it practically "belongs" to everyone on this forum. The opener of a thread has no exclusive rights here.

[mpkwokgsb]

whatever you like ... i am so tired of dealing with you and try to make some sense out of it. Continue living in your world and justify however you want the way you talk to people in this forum. It's not the first time anyone feel the same way I feel anyway. I won't bother any of your comments going-forward, as long as you don't call me having mental problem like what you did to another forumer in another posting.

[Maryjane]

whatever you like ... i am so tired of dealing with you and try to make some sense out of it. Continue living in your world and justify however you want the way you talk to people in this forum. It's not the first time anyone feel the same way I feel anyway. I won't bother any of your comments going-forward, as long as you don't call me having mental problem like what you did to another forumer in another posting.

Don't be upset about it, somebody always thinks he's leading the moral highground and rules of this forum. I don't me mean in a ironic way, but it's killing other people's desire to express some positive opinions rather provoking political gaps.