Torch Marathon Has Killed My Olympic Spirit

[Alan in Montréal]

In today's Toronto Star:

In other Olympic torch developments yesterday, Nepalese soldiers and police guarding the slopes of Mount Everest are authorized to shoot to stop any protests during China's run to the summit, an official in Kathmandu told The Associated Press.

In order for the torch to pass, the police are now authorized to "shoot to stop" any protestors? Is this the notion of human spirit, freedom and brotherhood that the torch is supposed to inspire?

This has become a complete mockery. The IOC made a big mistake giving China the Games. They are destined to become a major failure -- a heartless event, where events are rescheduled in order to avoid the overwhelming pollution in Beijing. What a mess.

I cannot believe it. "Shoot to stop" is authorized. The Olympics have become their own monster. When things have deteriorated to this level, there is every reason to believe that this circus is about money and power, and nothing else.

They can shove the whole thing as far as I'm concerned. I have no interest in even watching the massive propaganda show that the ceremonies will be.

Edited April 21, 2008 by juan antonio

[Michelle]

If there is any direct bloodshed associated with the torch relay it will have far reaching consequences for the IOC and the movement. The Beijing games have already been tarnished, this would only escalate the crisis.

Edited April 21, 2008 by M.Tradeau

[baron-pierreIV]

Blood was already spilled in Mexico and Munich. This is just the 2008 edition. The Games will survive.

[Maryjane]

In today's Toronto Star:

In order for the torch to pass, the police are now authorized to "shoot to stop" any protestors? Is this the notion of human spirit, freedom and brotherhood that the torch is supposed to inspire?

This has become a complete mockery. The IOC made a big mistake giving China the Games. They are destined to become a major failure -- a heartless event, where events are rescheduled in order to avoid the overwhelming pollution in Beijing. What a mess.

I cannot believe it. "Shoot to stop" is authorized. The Olympics have become their own monster. When things have deteriorated to this level, there is every reason to believe that this circus is about money and power, and nothing else.

They can shove the whole thing as far as I'm concerned. I have no interest in even watching the massive propaganda show that the ceremonies will be.

well, you havn't heard about the YOUTH TIBETAN ASS declaring they would be conducting suicide bombings if they suppose is the right time to do so.

For security and anti-terrorism reason, that's not really bad idea from the viewpoint of Nepal.

Sorry to tell you, this world is no longer a little neverland as the same as the little Olympic spirit.

[Faster]

There has yet to be a terrorist attack associated with a Buddhist group, Buddhism is completely non-violent and the ultimate act of protest is suicide alone. Remember the burning monk stories?

[baron-pierreIV]

Remember the burning monk stories?

We might see a few of those in Nepal. I hope His Holiness, the DL, can advise his followers to stay away from that grisly act. NOTHING is worth immolating yourself for.

[Citius Altius Fortius]

If there is any direct bloodshed associated with the torch relay it will have far reaching consequences for the IOC and the movement. The Beijing games have already been tarnished, this would only escalate the crisis.

... and we shouldn't forget that persons, who criticised the organisators of the Beijing Olympics have been detained - and what is with the people who were forced to leave their homes therewith the venues could have been built - AI is blaming the IOC that it doesn't react on violations of human rights by the PR China, which are directly connected with the Olympic Games...

[rav3n]

The games will survive, but the IOC reputation has been heavily damaged with this events (and with all the reason). This issue of ''shooting to stop'' is now the tip of the iceberg on this torch relay issue, something that it has never happened before. This is the total proof (altought all of us already know that) that both BOCOG and IOC are nothing but greedy monsters who only cares about their reputation than anything else. Jacques Rooge have dissapointed me for not having enough balls to face the situation and put a stop to China (of course not necesary to take the host away from them), and Samaranch, with all respect, was a complete ASSHOLE to give the games to Beijing. Is so dissapointing to see how the Olympic Games have been degrading itself into a money bussines, truly away from the original spirit conceived by Pierre de Coubertine. All the shame would fell on both of this organizations who have crushed our dreams on the last years. However i still going to watch the games since it will be very interesting to see how the things will end.

But the Olympic Movement, in my opinion, needs a change of face now, before it's too late.

Now i really doubt that the IOC will take risks on the election of 2016 and 2018 hosts. And a commie countrie will not host the games for a loooooong, loooooong time.

[TheOtherRob]

In today's Toronto Star:

In order for the torch to pass, the police are now authorized to "shoot to stop" any protestors? Is this the notion of human spirit, freedom and brotherhood that the torch is supposed to inspire?

No, of course it's not. I'd like to say I'm shocked at this but, to be honest, it's got to the stage where little about these Games can be shocking anymore. If I was a stronger person I'd be avoiding everything to do with these Olympics; but I'm sure in the end I'll watch a lot of the events. I certainly won't be buying any merchandise this time around though.

Of course the Chinese, with the help of the Nepalese, have already CLOSED many of the mountains in this area to anyone wanting to climb them in the first half of 2008. Their reason was environmental degredation, or something just as ridiculous.

Edited April 21, 2008 by Rob ♪

[baron-pierreIV]

Now i really doubt that the IOC will take risks on the election of 2016 and 2018 hosts. And a commie countrie will not host the games for a loooooong, loooooong time.

Well, rave, there are only like 3 or 4 left (including big Tsine). So indeed the Games won't be returning to Socialism any time soon. (Altho of course, aren't the 2010 Asians slated for Shanghai or Guangzhou?) But I'd say China can kiss a Harbin WOG or a WC goodbye for another 30 years or so.

[rav3n]

Exactly. Bids like Harbin and other risky ones like Doha or Rio (well i say risky compared to Chicago and Tokyo experiences) are going to have a tought time now in order to suceed, since the IOC must take off the dirt

And 2010 are on Guangzhou. Also China will host the 2011 Universiade at Shenzen.

[Citius Altius Fortius]

I wonder how much impact this "Olympic crisis" will have on the Politics and Economy: the Chinese People's economic wonder is based on the cheap workers, who produce for Western companies...

Maybe all blow up in a big boom...

[baron-pierreIV]

I wonder how much impact this "Olympic crisis" will have on the Politics and Economy: the Chinese People's economic wonder is based on the cheap workers, who produce for Western companies...

Maybe all blow up in a big boom...

It better not. I have a bit riding on the CHina boom until August '08. (Those fecking Tibetans!!)

Contracts are signed for now, and all this will make the Chinese work even harder to keep those contracts.

[Olympian2004]

Although I was sceptical about the Olympic Games staged in a totalitarian country anyway, I'm still surprised how the whole situation is getting out of hand.

Only a couple of months ago, at the FIFA Women's World Cup in China, I was disgusted by the intensity with which foreign correspondents were observed by the Chinese authorities, but actually I was more impressed by the enthusiasm with which the Chinese crowd cheered for every team in the World Cup stadia. So I thought back then that the Olympics would probably have some atmospheric disturbances by those schizophrenic Commie authorities, but the behaviour of the spectators would countervail that and create a generally friendly atmosphere during the Games. For the lead-up to the Olympics, I didn't expect an escalation of the human rights situation as the one we currently have to witness.

Now, the Chinese regime does everything to prevent that all in all, we'll keep good memories of the Beijing 2008 Olympics. I'm sorry for the Chinese citizens (not the Chinese regime!) which fully deserved to present itself in the best possible light -- but I suppose that those Games will always be linked to what happened in the past few weeks and will happen, as I fear, in the four months to come.

Already now, it's impossible for Beijing 2008 to be remembered as the "best Olympic Games ever". In fact, they are turning gradually into the biggest Olympic farce since Berlin 1936.

[Alan in Montréal]

Blood was already spilled in Mexico and Munich. This is just the 2008 edition. The Games will survive.

There's a big difference between violent acts taking place during the Games, and armed police officers being authorized to shoot those who wish to express their opinions through protest 4 months before the Games begin AND outside of not only the host city, but the host nation as well.

The IOC should have immediately cancelled this portion of this ridiculous side-show. They should of distanced themselves from it as soon as possible. Their lack of noise about this, and their inability to do the right thing speaks volumes of the elitist and out-of-touch attitude of many of the members of the IOC.

I cannot believe that it has come to this. Just remember everyone, when watching the opening ceremony from Beijing, when they will no doubt sing of the ideals of the Olympic movement, and the beauties of the host nation, what REALLY happened before the Games and what will happen within China's sphere of influence before and after this propaganda event. I no longer buy into any of it. And I feel sorry for the athletes for having to travel to compete under such circumstances. "Oh what a circus, Oh what a show" (with apologies to Andrew Lloyd Weber and Evita.

[arwebb]

If there is any direct bloodshed associated with the torch relay it will have far reaching consequences for the IOC and the movement. The Beijing games have already been tarnished, this would only escalate the crisis.

At the present moment, I think the Games have been through greater and more testing 'crises' than this in their history. However, should this scenario, God forbid, become a reality, then I fear we will be firmly in boycott territory and whatever damage has already been done to the standing of the Olympic movement will be multiplied several times over.

[Maryjane]

There has yet to be a terrorist attack associated with a Buddhist group, Buddhism is completely non-violent and the ultimate act of protest is suicide alone. Remember the burning monk stories?

Buddhism as a religon based on the similar working philosophy from Christianity, but not as the same as Tibetan Bhddhism (A huge caesaropapism system features many different branches). You should make the point clear. The monks on fire as the process of dying was not to suicide himself but the ''nirvana towards to the Heaven'' after all his life-long worshiping. Suicide is a huge sin within the notion of Buddhism that causes you go to hell.

I don't know where did you get those retarded ''monk stories'' from? Back to the topic of Tibetain Buddhism, check out the scriptures from ''the book of Kalachatra'', one of the classics from the Tantric Buddhism DL based on. It clearly says ''Allah and Muhammad are the ultimate enemy to kill'', there you go, it doesn't surprise me very much that Mosques are the first targets those Tibetan nuts target on.

Sorry, is there anything here to do with the positive side of Buddhism? I suspect that.

[Michelle]

At the present moment, I think the Games have been through greater and more testing 'crises' than this in their history. However, should this scenario, God forbid, become a reality, then I fear we will be firmly in boycott territory and whatever damage has already been done to the standing of the Olympic movement will be multiplied several times over.

I agree with you on your latter thoughts Arwebb. But I doubt the IOC, or the games, have been through greater crises (That is, if you're referring to the terrorist attack of 72 or the boycotts of 80 and 84). Which crisis do you refer to?

We're talking about a state, the host state of the 2008 Olympics, seemingly promote a shoot to kill policy on protesters while the Olympic Torch progresses through Asia. What makes this all the more serious, is that we have an inept IOC who are unwilling to take control of the situation. That is why I feel it will have far reaching consequences for the movement.

I understand why people have concerns with a movement when its core is not fit for purpose.

[arwebb]

I'm just wondering where you put the post-war period in this discussion.

[Guardian]

Okay. I thought I was hearing things about "shooting protesters" in the news yesterday. Guess that article showed me that I wasn't hearing things. The bigger question and test is for the next stop of this relay: Canberra. Didn't some news show mentioned that the "Chinese guys in blue" will be arrested and charged with assault, if the protesters in Canberra get manhandled in some way by them and full view of the world's media?

[Maryjane]

Okay. I thought I was hearing things about "shooting protesters" in the news yesterday. Guess that article showed me that I wasn't hearing things. The bigger question and test is for the next stop of this relay: Canberra. Didn't some news show mentioned that the "Chinese guys in blue" will be arrested and charged with assault, if the protesters in Canberra get manhandled in some way by them and full view of the world's media?

Double Standards

[arwebb]

How can you accuse Australia of double standards and then show a picture of what looks like Paris?

[Maryjane]

How can you accuse Australia of double standards and then show a picture of what looks like Paris?

I can. What's the point of your question?

[Maryjane]

I can. What's the point of your question?

That's my signature. WTF are you talkin about with this issue anyway?

[arwebb]

What is the point of asking a perfectly reasonable question if it meets with that kind of response?

There is nothing hypocritical whatsoever in the Australian government spelling out its position on the behaviour it expects during the relay through Canberra. To suggest otherwise seems to me to be really quite daft.