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European Union


SJD88

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This may have been posted before but i looked in the past 60 days and it wasn't in there so i apologize in advance if this is a raw topic or has already been over played. Anyway what are our European members think of it? To big not big enough. To far reaching? What about the Euro? And the UK in at least in my eyes always seems to be the odd one out. I've been unusually interested in the EU since I did a report on the proposed EU Constitution. So have at it enlighten me :P

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I think the European Union is politically and economical very important for Europe and the World - there are some things which I don't like (e.g. different approachs in human rights (esp. in the new member countries)) - I have no problem with the Euro, but it annoys me is that the economy abused it for a brazen markup (the prices are double as high as before the introduction...

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if Eu wont accept Turkiye as a member of the union... it cannot be named as a EUROPEan Union. and most probably never be a global actor and a military power..

Yes, not admitting an Asian country means its not a European Union. And its not that important either, with its 14.7 trillion dollar GDP or 450 million people or their 300 million dollar military budget. Yes those are some signs that the European Union is not important at all.

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Oh and don't forget a 5 million or so persons that can be called to active duty within 72 hours with a potential standing army of over 20 million.

The EU could invade and occupy Turkey faster than Germany invaded Poland.

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Oh and don't forget a 5 million or so persons that can be called to active duty within 72 hours with a potential standing army of over 20 million.

The EU could invade and occupy Turkey faster than Germany invaded Poland.

Go **** with your guns.

European Union is the biggest soft power ever created : no weapons were needed to create it !

What worries me actually it's that european parliament is on right side ... and we feel it ! "money, money, money" or even asking to swiss to eliminate banking secret psss ! What a band of *^ù*^m.

I wonder the day when we will understand that Switzerland found the key to have peace with 4 different languages on its territory and high living standard ! each canton is independant and participate in national effort only in big occasions... euro 2008 for example... each european regions should have the same autonomy (Bavaria, Catalonia, Flanders) and work similar... in that way, you would never listen flemish saying that they pay social helps for walloons since each region would deal with its own money... and it would not mean the end of Belgium at all, or Germany, or Spain !

Someone said me one day that the future is made of deeper individualism in every aspect, and so should affect the way gouvernements work in modern countries dealing with their regions...

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Go **** with your guns.

European Union is the biggest soft power ever created : no weapons were needed to create it !

What worries me actually it's that european parliament is on right side ... and we feel it ! "money, money, money" or even asking to swiss to eliminate banking secret psss ! What a band of *^ù*^m.

I wonder the day when we will understand that Switzerland found the key to have peace with 4 different languages on its territory and high living standard ! each canton is independant and participate in national effort only in big occasions... euro 2008 for example... each european regions should have the same autonomy (Bavaria, Catalonia, Flanders) and work similar... in that way, you would never listen flemish saying that they pay social helps for walloons since each region would deal with its own money... and it would not mean the end of Belgium at all, or Germany, or Spain !

Someone said me one day that the future is made of deeper individualism in every aspect, and so should affect the way gouvernements work in modern countries dealing with their regions...

Switzerland works for a lot more reasons than that, especially compared to other countries with multiple languages. There is little economic disparity between different areas and language groups in Switzerland, there is a strong sense of national identity in being Swiss that is independent of language and despite language differences there is a unified cultural cultural identity of being Swiss. Also the extensive use of direct democracy for national decision-making is unique and a contributing factor to Switzerland being sustained as a nation for so long. All of these things are missing in the other two well-known bi-linguistic countries of Canada and Belgium. Two states that have regions that are highly autonomous, where their is a skewed wealth distribution, moaning about political imbalance because of population disparity, a regional identity that supersedes a national indentity and a government system that at times requires co-operation between factions that don't often agree.

Devolution is not always the answer, it can work in some states but a centralized, uniform government also has advantages. There is too many intricacies of national identity and government to say that one model is suitable for all people. This is the fundamental flaw in the current American administration's belief that a capitalist, free-market democracy is the only way to go. When some of the most successful countries over the last 50 years are social capitalist, protectionist and various forms of democracy other than the American style of a strong executive with limited over-sight.

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Yes, not admitting an Asian country means its not a European Union. And its not that important either, with its 14.7 trillion dollar GDP or 450 million people or their 300 million dollar military budget. Yes those are some signs that the European Union is not important at all.

Oh God, I knew that it wouldn't be long before such ignorant remarks are expressed here.

First of all, considering Turkey's history and impact on both continents - it is commonly accepted to be considered as BOTH Asian and European. It's NOT just the one, or the other. Those who obviously like to label Turkey as "this" or "that" tend to intentionally neglect these facts with regards to everything from its history to its current life style.

If you're going to bring the economy and GDP numbers into question, then I'm not going to object to them as I have no interest at looking them up. Nevertheless, I doubt that these factors were considered when recently Bulgaria or Slovakia were admitted into the Union a few years ago. Turkey's reasons as to why it isn't being accepted is partly due to problems that it has solve on its part (i.e. amending article 301, which currently limits freedom of speech) and partly the EU's fault as well (which doesn't not push Cyprus to do its part at resolving the dispute within the island).

So please, don't throw out remarks that "it's not important enough" or that "it's much worthy of invading", as those are nothing but fascist like remarks.

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Turkey has to become a member of the European Union for global strategical political reason, like the northeast-, central-, southeast- and Eastern European countries, which were part of the Warsaw Pact before the fall of the Berlin Wall, but that means that the European Union has to create a political structure, which makes an Union witch such a high number of members capable for acting (it is already not capable anymore)...

Furthermore I would like to add that Turkey is part of Europe and therefore it should be a matter of fact, that it becomes a member.

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Oh God, I knew that it wouldn't be long before such ignorant remarks are expressed here.

First of all, considering Turkey's history and impact on both continents - it is commonly accepted to be considered as BOTH Asian and European. It's NOT just the one, or the other. Those who obviously like to label Turkey as "this" or "that" tend to intentionally neglect these facts with regards to everything from its history to its current life style.

If you're going to bring the economy and GDP numbers into question, then I'm not going to object to them as I have no interest at looking them up. Nevertheless, I doubt that these factors were considered when recently Bulgaria or Slovakia were admitted into the Union a few years ago. Turkey's reasons as to why it isn't being accepted is partly due to problems that it has solve on its part (i.e. amending article 301, which currently limits freedom of speech) and partly the EU's fault as well (which doesn't not push Cyprus to do its part at resolving the dispute within the island).

So please, don't throw out remarks that "it's not important enough" or that "it's much worthy of invading", as those are nothing but fascist like remarks.

You missed the point of my response to emre, he said that the EU was not important and never will be, this is bitter ranting on his part considering the numbers I have said that put the EU at the top of the economic, HDI and near the top of the military. I used the invading Turkey as an example of the strength of a combined EU military if it was at full force, definitely not suggesting that the EU should or would invade Turkey

As to Turkey and the economy, Turkey's economy (except their inability to control their currency) is a good argument for inclusion, being almost as large as the combined economies of 9 of the 10 members that joined in 2004 (excluding Poland).

As for Turkey being Asian or European, there is no comparable culture in Europe, the Ottoman Empire invaded and occupied much of the Balkans for 100's of years, it doesn't make it a European country, it like Russia was always on the periphery of Europe, though this in itself is not a full argument for or against Turkish inclusion because their are those that would equally support the inclusion of Israel and Cyprus is entirely in Asia.

Ahmet, you know full why that their are two primary reasons Turkey is not in the European above all excuses, 1) Turkey's growing population and Italy, France, UK and Germany's declining population will mean that Turkey would have the largest share of the European Parliament and the most influence, 2) xenophobia and the fear of large numbers of Turkish immigrants into western Europe. All other excuses would be easily dealt with if the EU was serious about Turkish inclusion into the body.

There is a lot more politics at play in the EU that meeting criteria, Poland got in with a well-known corrupt and ineffective government, and Poland, Czech Republic, Hungary and others got in despite counter-EU laws against foreign land/home ownership because they don't want large numbers of Germans moving back to their homelands in those countries. Croatia was blocked for silly reasons for so long and is now looking at 2010/2011 before they can get in (British refusal over Ante Gotovina) and Macedonia over its name and the Greeks refuse to even talk, when the problem could be solved with a simple treaty. European politics have always been petty and I think Turkey should move above this and act as a primarily Middle-Easter power to counter the money flowing from Saudi Arabia and Iran into Lebanon, Syria, Yeman and Jordan that is indebting those countries into a form of Islam that is militant, extreme and contrary to actual Islamic teachings. Unfortunately Turkey has been invaded itself to these ideas.

I am neither for or against Turkish EU membership, in my mind it will mean every little because the EU is taking too many quos from Italian governance. (Sorry Rei, but 62 governments in 63 years is a bit excessive).

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if Eu wont accept Turkiye as a member of the union... it cannot be named as a EUROPEan Union. and most probably never be a global actor and a military power..

I am personally in favour of Turkey joining the EU but that's one of the most stupid reason for including Turkey:

  1. It has never been said that the European Union has to include every single European country
  2. The EU his certainly more a global actor and a military power than Turkey is (I mean, besides occupying a part of Cyprus, what's Turkey doing on the international stage?)

I think including Turkey in the European Union will be an excellent opportunity of building a bridge to Asia and the Middle-East as well as with the Muslim community.

This being said, it would be better for everyone, the EU and Turkey, for Turkey to join a functional EU. The recent years have proven that the EU needs to conduct some reform of its institutions before admitting new members.

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This may have been posted before but i looked in the past 60 days and it wasn't in there so i apologize in advance if this is a raw topic or has already been over played. Anyway what are our European members think of it? To big not big enough. To far reaching? What about the Euro? And the UK in at least in my eyes always seems to be the odd one out. I've been unusually interested in the EU since I did a report on the proposed EU Constitution. So have at it enlighten me :P

I think, as far as the British are concerned, we have always been fairly naturally sceptical about the European Union. The fact that we have not had an explicit say on a European issue, be it a treaty of any sort or our very status in Europe, since the referendum of 1975 only serves to fuel that scepticism in my mind. Ultimate sovereignty lies, or at least should lie, with the people but when it comes to Europe, the British people have been sidetracked for too long.

Personally, I think the European Union is in need of far-reaching reform. On that point, I agree with the pro-European lobby. But I believe the reform that is needed is reform to loosen the ties between member states, rather than ever closer political integration.

Too often, for my money, the EU tries to be a one size fits all body when it cannot possibly be such. Take the Euro as an example. Why should members of the Euro zone lose the right to set their own economic policies simply because they are in the Euro zone? Effectively they do, because they have to adhere to the rules laid down by the European Central Bank? Surely there has to be a recognition of national interests and a wider recognition that sovereignty lies with the member states themselves, rather than with the body as a whole. People may be European, but they are British or Irish or French or Spanish first and foremost and that should be recognised.

While its supporters may claim that its existence has helped to maintain the peace in Western Europe for more than half a century, my own view is that the EU has gone too far away from the way in which it came into being - namely as a trading block. Time to go back to the future, I reckon.

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what's Turkey doing on the international stage?)

In terms of military, they are part of a mission that have sent troops to Afghanistan, in order to moderate its stability. In addition to that, there are Turkish peace keeping troops that are currently present in Lebanon, Kosovo and I believe in Bosnia as well.

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[*]The EU his certainly more a global actor and a military power than Turkey is (I mean, besides occupying a part of Cyprus, what's Turkey doing on the international stage?)

They are also going after PKK terrorists in northern Iraq they invalided a few months ago (they've pulled out last time I checked). I would think that Turkey can't join currently for several reasons.

The ruling party is in the process from being disbanded for being too religious.

And according to Wikipedia out of the 33 Chapters 2 are "situation totally incompatible with EU acquis" 6 are "very hard to adopt" and 12 are "considerable efforts needed"

So I just think they need more time to settle things in the country.

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European Union is the biggest soft power ever created : no weapons were needed to create it !

I agree. The true way to judge something's size is to note how big it is when it's soft.

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