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Sorry Rio - Not This Time!


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Nope, Rio transport infrastructure is not ready yet, some sports venues are still missing.

Lets think of this statement some venues are still missing

A. a Brand new HSBC Arena of 15000 seats for Basketball

B. a Brand new 10000 seat Maria Lenk Aquatics Centre

C. a Brand new 3500 seat indoor Velodrome

D. a Brand new 45000 IAAF Class one Athletics Stadium that has provision to expand to 15000 for the WC 2014 and then take the end roofs off for 2016 allowing 20000 additional temporary seats

E. a 95000 seat Maracana Soccer Stadium that had a refurb for the 2007 Pan Am Games (who knows with Maracana's pitch space an Athletics surface could be installed surpassing the 80000 Minimum Capacity needed for the Olympics Main Stadium)

F. a Maracanãzinho]12000 seat arena newly refurbed for the Rio 2007 pan am Games

G. a Brand new Shooting Venue that is getting huge phrase from that community worldwide.

H. The most famous beach areas in the world which are the birthplace of Beach volleyball.

J. a Brand new Rowing Facility in place

All these and others having to be rated for the International Federations involved . The Pan Am games unlike a Commonwealth Games has the same set of events to host as the Olympics.

Meanwhile in london

A. a main stadium just getting under construction with 4 years to go

B. an aquatic centre under construction with 4 years to go

C. a Velopark under construction with 4 years to go

D. The london 2012 committee still trying to make their minds up on White Water Events after the International federation rejected their plans 2 and 1/2 years after the bid was awarded.

E. O2 Arena ready

F. The New Wembley ready for Soccer but that stadium would not be able to change to being an athletics Field for the Games if needed unlike Maracana.

G. An Athletes village development three times the Accoms requirement just getting started

Rio Transportation wise has the work ahead of it for 2016 but that is also true of the Brazil 2014 WC hosting they have . Rio has work to do in regards to venues but not anywheres near the mountain of work London has for a hosting in 2012. And yet London certainly did not have a multi-sport festival in 2007 that included 40 sports where as the 2012 olympics has 22 sports.

jim jones

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Lets think of this statement some venues are still missing

A. a Brand new HSBC Arena of 15000 seats for Basketball

B. a Brand new 10000 seat Maria Lenk Aquatics Centre

C. a Brand new 3500 seat indoor Velodrome

D. a Brand new 45000 IAAF Class one Athletics Stadium that has provision to expand to 15000 for the WC 2014 and then take the end roofs off for 2016 allowing 20000 additional temporary seats

E. a 95000 seat Maracana Soccer Stadium that had a refurb for the 2007 Pan Am Games (who knows with Maracana's pitch space an Athletics surface could be installed surpassing the 80000 Minimum Capacity needed for the Olympics Main Stadium)

F. a Maracanãzinho]12000 seat arena newly refurbed for the Rio 2007 pan am Games

G. a Brand new Shooting Venue that is getting huge phrase from that community worldwide.

H. The most famous beach areas in the world which are the birthplace of Beach volleyball.

J. a Brand new Rowing Facility in place

All these and others having to be rated for the International Federations involved . The Pan Am games unlike a Commonwealth Games has the same set of events to host as the Olympics.

Meanwhile in london

A. a main stadium just getting under construction with 4 years to go

B. an aquatic centre under construction with 4 years to go

C. a Velopark under construction with 4 years to go

D. The london 2012 committee still trying to make their minds up on White Water Events after the International federation rejected their plans 2 and 1/2 years after the bid was awarded.

E. O2 Arena ready

F. The New Wembley ready for Soccer but that stadium would not be able to change to being an athletics Field for the Games if needed unlike Maracana.

G. An Athletes village development three times the Accoms requirement just getting started

Rio Transportation wise has the work ahead of it for 2016 but that is also true of the Brazil 2014 WC hosting they have . Rio has work to do in regards to venues but not anywheres near the mountain of work London has for a hosting in 2012. And yet London certainly did not have a multi-sport festival in 2007 that included 40 sports where as the 2012 olympics has 22 sports.

jim jones

All true but does not address your initial claim: you were comparing the current situation of Rio which was awarded the PanAm Games in 2002 to the one in London whiwh was awarded the Olympics in 2005, 3 years later. So no wonder Rio is more advanced than London at this stage (thank god might I add since Rio hosted the PanAm last year). You are comparing apples to oranges and you know it.

The initial claim was that Rio could be a back up for Beijing, which was just dumb (I stand by the fact that Rio is missing venues and transport, which is perfectly fine since they are aiming at 2016). No-one said London could be either and why should they when London is preparing for 2012 (and just recently got a brilliant assessment by the IOC CoCom).

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E. a 95000 seat Maracana Soccer Stadium that had a refurb for the 2007 Pan Am Games (who knows with Maracana's pitch space an Athletics surface could be installed surpassing the 80000 Minimum Capacity needed for the Olympics Main Stadium)

Never happen. The talks for the 2014 WC they are even considering putting down the track stadium of the Maracana complex to use it as a parking lot. Joao Havelange would probably be the Main Stadium or... (:o be scared) building ANOTHER stadium for the OG.

When it comes to building things, our leaders here are the first to raise their hands.

In theory you are right. The Maracana soccer pitch is above the size allowed to build a track around it, but that probably would mean remaking the lower seats for the field events (like long and triple jump).

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All true but does not address your initial claim: you were comparing the current situation of Rio which was awarded the PanAm Games in 2002 to the one in London whiwh was awarded the Olympics in 2005, 3 years later. So no wonder Rio is more advanced than London at this stage (thank god might I add since Rio hosted the PanAm last year). You are comparing apples to oranges and you know it.

The initial claim was that Rio could be a back up for Beijing, which was just dumb (I stand by the fact that Rio is missing venues and transport, which is perfectly fine since they are aiming at 2016). No-one said London could be either and why should they when London is preparing for 2012 (and just recently got a brilliant assessment by the IOC CoCom).

Don't get me wrong Jeremie Rio could not be ready to step into the shoes of Beijing this year but lets face it Right now they would be more able to do that as a very last resort then London would. London and Rio were basically at the same starting point for 2012 in 2003 as the New Wembley and terminal five were under construction in London but Rio had the Pan Ams on their plate for 2007. Athens or Sydney would course be logically for a rescue role if needed. An Earthquake able to stop the Games in Beijing having massive loss of life at this point would probably have the games just cancelled period.

The Value of what Rio has done to host the Pan Ams in 2007 is not lost on the IOC I am sure. These are basically Venues built to Olympic specs and capacity about 9 years in advance of the games. Having a Check list reduced by so much is huge especially if London becomes a Bigger financial problem then it is right now. 20 billion for a Games is very excessive and not really a way to attract cities to bid. There is a fine point at which the expense compared to benefits will make the games unattractive. Beijing is going to be the most expensive games for a while but to have a European summer Games go from 6 to 10 billion in Athens for 2004 to 20 billion in London for 2012 will have cities pause to think if they can afford it.

Rio is missing Venues for a 2008 games while London is missing venues for 2012 LOL.

THe Pan am Games hosting at a historic level for Venue construction is a great base. In 2005 Rio did not have that base . 2007 expanded greatly what Rio has . the combination of 2014 WC and possibly hosting an olympics two years later will move that even further.

Rio 2007 had its transportation problems but so did Atlanta 1996 and others hosting the games. Rio will have a vast improvement just on having to host the WC. The only games Rio might Rescue would be if London itself had to have that happen and Rio was awarded the 2016 games having Capital projects in that direction . Highly doubtful to that happening as London will be fine for the games it will just be how high the final bill is .

jim jones

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Never happen. The talks for the 2014 WC they are even considering putting down the track stadium of the Maracana complex to use it as a parking lot. Joao Havelange would probably be the Main Stadium or... (:o be scared) building ANOTHER stadium for the OG.

When it comes to building things, our leaders here are the first to raise their hands.

In theory you are right. The Maracana soccer pitch is above the size allowed to build a track around it, but that probably would mean remaking the lower seats for the field events (like long and triple jump).

just an absolute theory Rominger pointing to the options in Rio. I find it odd that many Brazilian stadiums were built this way to possible be able to host Cricket , Rugby or Aussie rules football. Joao Havelange will be the main Athletics Stadium and Maracana no doubt would probably serve the same role as it did in the Pan Ams. Opening and closing ceremonies and probably Soccer. As to re aligning seat for athletics if you look at Abuja National stadium the have an oval like shape with seating set back like Maracana. Maracana is Bigger but you do have a great deal to work with there. Cosmetics would probably be the biggest changes with Maracana. An fabric roof extension I have seen in Plans for WC 2014.

Jim jones

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Rominger do you not think that Rio has learned a Great Deal from the Pan Am Games and can be on the path to improving ? With the World Cup advance work on transportation and the fact that Rio is now hosting World championship or continental championship that this all helps. It is not like Chicago who is doing some championships and nothing on the scale of the Pan AMs and World Cup years before. I understand what you are saying with Rio and the Pan Am Games. The Capital Projects had their share of problems but now there are really Olympic Facilities in Place 8 years before the Games for many of the Venues required. Rio is in better Shape now for the 2012 games they did not make the shortlist for then the winner London. There is no reason the Main stadium athletics Stadium for RIO 2016 couldn't be ready before London has theirs complete. adding the 15000 end zone Seats , Taking off the end roofs and putting up temporary stands for the 20000 additional seats required could be easily done in a year. Of course that roof will stay on for WC 2014 and then come off after the WC is over and if Rio is hosting the Olympics in 2016.

jim jones

I agree with you and Dannyel regarding the IOC grades. I read briefly the reports of Rio and it seems that most of the grades were awarded because of the work being done for the PanAm Games, considering that it was the only thing that changed in the past 4 years.

I will give an example of how things are done here. The bus transportation is a chaos here and it is being discussed right now the renewal of the actual lines. There have been talks for a decade about remaking the whole bus grid, but right now it was being considered a priority when it talks about the renewal of the lines. Some politicians at the city decided that it wasn´t enough and are creating a law to renew the actual grid for 10 years without any improvement. Considering the bus line owners are called as a 'mafia' around here (it helps the fact that all of them are family businesses) and you can get the picture.

Because of that, I think that building venues is not the problem, we are building a lot here those past few years (not only stadia), but actually creating an infrastructure that can actually improve the city. That is why these grades were the lowest in the EB report (and I might be too realist, but I thought that compared to the top cities, they were actually very optmistic in some grades that don´t even match with the written analysis).

Obviously that, when it comes to visibility, the PanAm Games were a great way to get the attention for the Olympic community, and Rio was able to fully capitalize that for the 2016 shortlist, and I don´t think that it could be possible to pass the shortlist if the PanAm Games weren´t staged last year. Sometimes people are only convinced about something when they actually show it can be done and, like Dannyel said, that was the case for Rio.

Like I said, the PanAm were a good (and hard) way of learning that staging a multisport event is not easy, but I still think that they haven´t fully learned the lesson and are more worried about which new buildings/venues (and the cash they can earn) than actually worried about the project. No, I am not that naive to say that it only happens in Rio, but I am talking about priority and professionalism, things that the actual local OCOG doesn´t have.

By the way, when it comes to staging events, Rio received a higher grade by the EB than Tokyo. Considering that Japan hosted the 2002 WC, the 1998 WOG, the 2002 Volleyball WC and the 2007 IAAF WC and still Rio was highly recommended, I found that very surprising.

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Cosmetics would probably be the biggest changes with Maracana. An fabric roof extension I have seen in Plans for WC 2014.

Inside the stadium yes, there aren´t many things to do right now, but outside the plans are really huge.

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I agree with you and Dannyel regarding the IOC grades. I read briefly the reports of Rio and it seems that most of the grades were awarded because of the work being done for the PanAm Games, considering that it was the only thing that changed in the past 4 years.

I will give an example of how things are done here. The bus transportation is a chaos here and it is being discussed right now the renewal of the actual lines. There have been talks for a decade about remaking the whole bus grid, but right now it was being considered a priority when it talks about the renewal of the lines. Some politicians at the city decided that it wasn´t enough and are creating a law to renew the actual grid for 10 years without any improvement. Considering the bus line owners are called as a 'mafia' around here (it helps the fact that all of them are family businesses) and you can get the picture.

Because of that, I think that building venues is not the problem, we are building a lot here those past few years (not only stadia), but actually creating an infrastructure that can actually improve the city. That is why these grades were the lowest in the EB report (and I might be too realist, but I thought that compared to the top cities, they were actually very optmistic in some grades that don´t even match with the written analysis).

Obviously that, when it comes to visibility, the PanAm Games were a great way to get the attention for the Olympic community, and Rio was able to fully capitalize that for the 2016 shortlist, and I don´t think that it could be possible to pass the shortlist if the PanAm Games weren´t staged last year. Sometimes people are only convinced about something when they actually show it can be done and, like Dannyel said, that was the case for Rio.

Like I said, the PanAm were a good (and hard) way of learning that staging a multisport event is not easy, but I still think that they haven´t fully learned the lesson and are more worried about which new buildings/venues (and the cash they can earn) than actually worried about the project. No, I am not that naive to say that it only happens in Rio, but I am talking about priority and professionalism, things that the actual local OCOG doesn´t have.

By the way, when it comes to staging events, Rio received a higher grade by the EB than Tokyo. Considering that Japan hosted the 2002 WC, the 1998 WOG, the 2002 Volleyball WC and the 2007 IAAF WC and still Rio was highly recommended, I found that very surprising.

Personally I would not be surprized by high marks for Rio's hosting of international events in the past and event post Pan Am games but for them to be rated higher then Tokyo is something. The 2007 IAAF WC would certainly be in a place one of their executive had the highest phrase for JH stadium .

If Rio has made enough of an impression to have that heaped on them in the IOC evaluation then that bodes well. then you have the Venues newly acquired .

If the Sentiment is to stage these games in South America and Africa very soon for he first time Then Rio is firmly on track to do that. If Chicago was to win I am sure Rio would be going for 2020.

as to maracana and a new round of renovations my thinking would probably see not only the extended fabric roof for the WC but maybe a Glass Curtain Wall surfacing the outside of the Stadium . Structurally I don't know how Maracana is but I believe quite a bit of work has already been done on the Stadium structurally. Barcalona and Los Angeles used renovated per world war two stadiums and did fine for hosting the games. Considering the Pan Am Games Venue legacy Rio is in very good shape.

The Transportation issues have to be addressed for the World Cup in 2014. I am sure they will be .

jim jones

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I really hope you are right.

The biggest thing they need is communication at all turns. The Bus Family in Rio should really get on board showing support. The Games will benefit Rio . Brazil and the whole continent . The Architect from Australia working on the Rio Venues is very regarded and a winner for bids. That is a great resource to have had from day one of the Pan Am Games. Having a planner from Sydney 2000 in the Rio stable is an ace in the hole.

Reading the plans for Barra I am actually impressed . The shifting of some events from the Pan Am Games Location is very very good.

I have heard from my source of two or three problems with RIo 2007 and the IOC inspections.

A. the Family o not like travelling in anything like a city taxi cab. that was apparently done in some inspections

B. THe Pan am Games Village Bedrooms were too small along with the beds . I have researched that issue in regards to Abuja's Commonwealth Games bid and found the stats on what Beijing is doing, Research Education and Experience will help.

C. the traffic capacity and delays to get to Maracana for the opening ceremonies. Bus only lanes of course were disobeyed. This is were Transportation improvements will be key.

jim joens

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After seen how was the criteria of the shortlisted cities election, I definitely ssee that they are giving a big chance to Rio this time. Above all, when Doha know is complaining for such criteria, when they were logistically as capable as Chicago. And after the experience of Salt Lake City and more recently Sochi, where they knew the russians will have big challenges to deliver to the world good games. And as many people in this forum have been mentioning it continously, the IOC people, and particularly the voters really don't care about the technical issues in the last minute before voting. It is more a matter to play with emotion or money.

I certainmy agree with many of you about all this marketing and logistic issues, but we also know what are always the results.

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After seen how was the criteria of the shortlisted cities election, I definitely ssee that they are giving a big chance to Rio this time. Above all, when Doha know is complaining for such criteria, when they were logistically as capable as Chicago. And after the experience of Salt Lake City and more recently Sochi, where they knew the russians will have big challenges to deliver to the world good games. And as many people in this forum have been mentioning it continously, the IOC people, and particularly the voters really don't care about the technical issues in the last minute before voting. It is more a matter to play with emotion or money.

I certainmy agree with many of you about all this marketing and logistic issues, but we also know what are always the results.

I have been tainted in this forum for facing this reality. People here don`t usually agree with that.

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Nope, Rio transport infrastructure is not ready yet, some sports venues are still missing.

Brazil has "helped" sometimes big events in those cases (ok, it was South American Games 2002, Some Fifa tournaments) but with PanAm structure and a good paleative transport system (including school vacations during the games) I think Rio could make this (just in a emergency) again.

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Positive Response to Rio's 2016 by a man who has been to two bidder competitions with a Bid committee to the North.

The words of Paul Henderson former Canadian Olympic Sailor should be encouraging to Our Friends in Brazil .

Read

Christie: Government's backing wins Games

James Christie, June 5, 2008 at 3:33 PM EDT

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When the Brazilian gem of Rio de Janiero was short listed this week as a candidate for the 2016 Summer Olympics along with Tokyo, Madrid, and Chicago, it was no surprise to amateur sport crusader and Olympian Paul Henderson.

Rio may not have Tokyo's teeming subway system, Chicago's potential for corporate financial backing or Madrid's apparent familiarity because of eight previous Spanish Olympic bids. But Rio has something that matters very much to the International Olympic Committee's decision makers. It has become a government mission.

When the sports mavens hear a jurisdiction wants a party and is prepared to guarantee the bills, they'll show up with bells, whistles and streamers. Where the willingness to guarantee a budget is lacking or core events aren't welcome, it's poison.

Politics isn't the biggest impediment. If it were, the 2008 Olympics never would be headed for Beijing, with its problematic human rights record. But Chinese officials were ready to lay out billions to make the Olympics their showcase and make sure they run efficiently. The International Olympic Committee happily hitched up its wagon.

"It's nice to see the positive thrust of the political arena," said Henderson of Rio's status as a finalist.

Henderson ran the Toronto bid for the 2006 Olympics and advised the second bid that was runner-up to Beijing for the 2008 Games. Each time, he said, government support was late or meek, certainly not absolute.

But in Brazil, Orlando Silva, Minister of Sports, said the country "will make every effort for Rio to be the 2016 host city. This is a great time for Brazilian sports. ... We are committed to working in partnership with the Brazilian Olympic Committee, the private sector, and the State and City governments to stage in Rio de Janeiro the best Olympic Games in history."

Rio's regional Governor Sergio Cabral said the State of Rio "will do whatever it takes to be host of the 2016 Games", while Rio mayor Cesar Maia noted the importance of holding a successful 2007 Pan American Games. The Pan Ams showed the city was able to operate a mega-sport project, even moreso than a massive single-sport venture like the World Cup.

If Toronto has Olympic aspirations, it helps that there have been two respected, competitive bids in the recent past. But it would help more if Toronto could demonstate itself as a player in hosting the 2015 Pan American Games. Games in Southern Ontario's Golden Hourseshoe would leave a legacy of badly-needed state-of-the-art sport facilities.

Provincial officials have said they are onside, at least to the point of sending the Canadian Olympic Committee a letter saying Ontario will back a good business case for the Games. A recent letter to a Toronto newspaper by federal minister responsible for sport Helena Guergis also indicates the feds also have some positive twitches toward a successful Pan Am gambit.

But the federal minister sees Toronto's Mayor David Miller as a foot dragger whose recent initiatives to try and shut down shooting ranges in the name of gun control my be seen as an impediment to a successful Pan Am bid.

"Closing the sport shooting ranges used by our Olympic athletes would do nothing to make Toronto's streets safer," Guergis wrote. Handguns are already banned in Canada for all but a few legitimate purposes, including use by our Olympic athletes' she wrote.

"Shooting infrastructure is required for hosting international competitions. It is surprising that in a city that has expressed an interest in hosting the Pan Am Games, the mayor is calling for the shutdown of necessary sport infrastructure that is required for a successful Pan Am bid."

And so, Toronto and Southern Ontario probably will wind up on the sidelines again when it comes time to award the 2015 Pan Ams.

hey you take the Olympics for 2016 and we will take the Pan Ams for 2015. That keeps tickets sales better for 2015 without Chicago the next year and Ticket sales focused in south America for the first olympic held there and not the Pan Am games in 2015 that lima would like to host.

Jim jones

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Positive Response to Rio's 2016 by a man who has been to two bidder competitions with a Bid committee to the North.

The words of Paul Henderson former Canadian Olympic Sailor should be encouraging to Our Friends in Brazil .

hey you take the Olympics for 2016 and we will take the Pan Ams for 2015. That keeps tickets sales better for 2015 without Chicago the next year and Ticket sales focused in south America for the first olympic held there and not the Pan Am games in 2015 that lima would like to host.

Jim jones

well, Henderson has a point. But then again, he hasn't exactly been on a winning bid, has he?

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well, Henderson has a point. But then again, he hasn't exactly been on a winning bid, has he?

No he didn't but lets face it he certainly knew what cost them was the commitment of the Government. ER of was that Mel Lastmans Mouth about being afraid of Native in Africa putting him in a boiling pot of water as he visited kenya?????

Henderson is right from the standpoint of display of total government support. IF you have waviering in that department vs countries that seem greatly committed it would be an uphill climb. Usually the weakness from the government is due to their knowing the wind of local public opinion is not blowing totally in favor of something. Toronto even in this day and Age would still be haunted by the fall out in confidence regarding hosting a summer games in canada because of montreal . Toronto had the reminder of that type of thing with the Skydome and how the city got stuck with it for a while and the selling price to private hands when down to 5 percent of original construction costs. Toronto also benefitted greatly from Montreals olympic disaster

Overtaking Montreal as the business capital of Canada.

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