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Ioc To Scrap International Relays!


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Though this article says that we "nixed" the torch relay, I'm not sure how that's possible as an international relay for 2010 was never ever proposed or planned.

However, it has been mentioned before that the 2010 flame could make stops at European cities, like London and Paris, and New York City when it crosses the Atlantic. Interesting how the article below mentioned that the 2010 flame might make a stop at Vimy Ridge in France.

Vancouver nixes international torch relay

Vanoc CEO Furlong says 2010 torch relay may stop in some international cities but won't follow Beijing example

Jeff Lee, Vancouver Sun

Published: Thursday, April 10, 2008

BEIJING - Vancouver's Olympic organizers won't conduct an international torch relay but may still make stops at some locations, including London and Vimy Ridge, Vanoc CEO John Furlong said Thursday. But a final decision to take the torch outside of Canada will have to await a review by the International Olympic Committee in the wake of violent protests that have beset the 2008 Beijing torch relay.

Furlong said he hadn't ruled out the possibility that the torch for the 2010 Winter Games could make stops at places of significance to Canadians on its transit from Olympia, Greece to Vancouver in late 2009.

But he said Vanoc had never really considered a full-fledged international torch relay like Beijing's, simply because it will have a big enough job covering Canada.

"You exhaust a lot of time that you have by going internationally," Furlong said. "In Canada alone we're talking 1,000 cities, 35,000 kilometres, 200 celebrations over 100 days. So we have our hands full.

"The most-asked question I get from people is, 'Are you going to bring the torch to my town?'" he said. "With our plan to take this to so many cities and towns in Canada, I don't think it's really possible to consider a full-on international relay."

When asked to confirm information that Vanoc has considered possible stops in London and Vimy Ridge in France, he said the organization had talked about it.

"We talked about options like anybody would, but we've made absolutely zero determinations about this," he said. "We haven't finalized our plans yet and we haven't determined what we will do. Is it out the question? No. But our focus has largely been on dealing with our own country and having a torch relay that is consistent with our own vision."

Vimy Ridge is where Canadian soldiers in the First World War won their stripes as a fighting force. Chris Brumwell, a Vanoc spokesman, said the idea of stopping in Europe came out of necessity because of the long flight to Canada from Greece.

"There were musings, brainstorming, about what could be done," he said. Brumwell also confirmed that Vanoc has no intention of making an international tour or relay with the torch and it will not stop in Sochi, Russia, home of the 2014 Winter Games.

The International Olympic Committee's executive board discussed the status of the Beijing torch relay route on Thursday and agreed not to change its international destinations. But IOC spokeswoman Giselle Davies said the relay organizers and host cities may make changes to the local routes.

IOC president Jacques Rogge said the organization will consider in September, after the Beijing Games, whether to allow future international relays. He said Athens in 2004 held the first international relay and it was a success. The Beijing relay, on the other hand, is not.

Earlier in the day, Rogge said the constant protests against the torch relay and questions over freedom of expression had created a crisis for athletes, who he said were "in disarray."

He told a news conference that the last few days have been "a period that I would describe as not being so easy for the Olympic movement." He described it as a crisis that the IOC will overcome, but one not as bad as the terrorist attack on the 1972 Munich Games or the boycotts of 1976, 1980 and 1984.

Rogge also said he had pressed Chinese authorities live up to a "moral" promise they made in 2001 to improve human rights.

"This is what I would call a moral engagement, not a juridical one. I would definitely ask China to respect its moral intentions."

Rogge said he was also concerned that China has not fully implemented a new media law that allows reporters to go where they want and interview who they choose, unimpeded.

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Before Athens the IOC had a recommendation in a report to have the torch relay only 100 from the lighting in Olympia and only in Greece and the host country.

After the worldwide relay of Athens they say it was fantastic to do it more.

Now there are three cities with a dissapointing torch relay and they don't want to do it anymore? I think it's too soon to say.

The executive board Friday said they will decide after the Games.

But I think because Athens torch relay was great. And in the United Kingdom they don's have Tibet. I don't think there will be protests in a London torch relay.

What's more important? The Olympic spirit and world coming togehter this way and giving some countries the oppurtunity to have a part of the olympic torch relay or don't use the olympic values anymore and be scared there are some protesters who don't respect the olympic values?

I choose the first one.

And the Winter Games never had an international part in the torch relay, and a half year ago in Canada they already said they only go through Canada.. so that's no news:P

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Before Athens the IOC had a recommendation in a report to have the torch relay only 100 from the lighting in Olympia and only in Greece and the host country.

After the worldwide relay of Athens they say it was fantastic to do it more.

100 % false.

The IOC has never had specific instructions about the number of days for the torch relay.

Never did the IOC said a global torch relay a la Athens was a great idea for the future. The global torch relay was supposed to be a one time thing and the IOC was not especially keen on having further global torch relay.

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100 % false.

The IOC has never had specific instructions about the number of days for the torch relay.

Never did the IOC said a global torch relay a la Athens was a great idea for the future. The global torch relay was supposed to be a one time thing and the IOC was not especially keen on having further global torch relay.

Sorry, but I know what I'm saying.

3.30 Recommendation: Limit the Torch Relay to the host country and to a maximum

duration of 100 days from the lighting in Olympia.

You know this report from the IOC? It was accepted by the 115th IOC session in Prague July 2003.

And yes the the IOC president said after the Athens Games it was a great Torch Relay and he'd like it when in future there could be more relays like that.

That's why all 2012 bids also had a international torch relay plan.

But also before the Athens Olympics the IOC was saying it was a fantastic idea, but only inside the olympic movement.

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I know very well this report thank you very much, which was aimed at controlling the complexity and cost of staging the Games. Hence the recommendation of keeping the torch relay "short".

One has to make distinction between the recommendations of the Olympic Games Study Commission and what came out of it.

The current version of the Olympic Charter does not include any specific instruction about the Olympic Torch Relay besides that the Torch Relay is in charged of the OCOG and should be approved by the IOC.

I am not denying that the Athens Torch Relay was a great success.

I also know people who worked on it: it was a logistical nightmare and the IOC is not too keen on such global torch relay as it is in complete contradiction with keeping the cost under control. Proof of that, to go back to your 2012 candidate cities statement, is that the 2012 Evaluation Report states that "all torch relay project will have to be discussed with and approved by the IOC".

I am not saying an international torch relay won't happen again. It has happened before: Berlin, Tokyo, Mexico, Barcelona, Lillehammer, Sydney all had international segments in their torch relay.

Global Torch Relay a la Athens/Beijing are very unlikely.

Last word of advice, don't believe what the IOC President says when he is being polite.

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We should know that the torch relay has no problem itself. I think scrapping it is never a good thing as this has formed an interesting part in the Olympic games. Due to history of disruptions by cancelling it would mean more than harm to those who admire it and follow it around the world.It also interesting to note that even celebrities are even involved in the torch relay thing.

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I also know people who worked on it: it was a logistical nightmare and the IOC is not too keen on such global torch relay as it is in complete contradiction with keeping the cost under control.

Last word of advice, don't believe what the IOC President says when he is being polite.

I talked with some Greek girls when I was waiting to carry the torch. It was a very busy trip to go to all cities indeed. Two airplanes, nearly every day another city. In Beijing they have a lot more restdays. So I think it was a recommendation in the TOK of Athens to do so.

Only the fuel for the airplanes was a high cost I think.

The total costs for Torch relay, opening and closing ceremonies, culture programma and other ceremonies was 133,4 million euros according to the Athens official report.

Sydney 2000: ceremonies 68,5 million Aus$, torch relay 11,4 million Aus$ and 38,6 million Aus$ for the cultural programma.

In Atlanta $26,647 for all ceremonies.

Salt Lake the Torch Relay costst: 25 million$

Athens was very expensive with the ceremonies, I think most of the money will go to the Torch Relay. But all NOC's had costs to organize the Relay in her own city. I don't know the exact costs because I cannot read the Transfer of Knowledge Programme.

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I talked with some Greek girls when I was waiting to carry the torch. It was a very busy trip to go to all cities indeed. Two airplanes, nearly every day another city. In Beijing they have a lot more restdays. So I think it was a recommendation in the TOK of Athens to do so.

Only the fuel for the airplanes was a high cost I think.

The total costs for Torch relay, opening and closing ceremonies, culture programma and other ceremonies was 133,4 million euros according to the Athens official report.

Sydney 2000: ceremonies 68,5 million Aus$, torch relay 11,4 million Aus$ and 38,6 million Aus$ for the cultural programma.

In Atlanta $26,647 for all ceremonies.

Salt Lake the Torch Relay costst: 25 million$

Athens was very expensive with the ceremonies, I think most of the money will go to the Torch Relay. But all NOC's had costs to organize the Relay in her own city. I don't know the exact costs because I cannot read the Transfer of Knowledge Programme.

The integral part of the torch relay has never been the cost. And,this is the first time seeing any complain coming in from the cost side of running it.

However, the Olympic is equal to the task of the million dollars or whatever amount it's cost.The torch relay has become a significant part in countries it passes through. Do you know what that should mean in the celebration context to those countries?

I think it's time to ignore pointing finger to the cost of running the torch relay.

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I talked with some Greek girls when I was waiting to carry the torch. It was a very busy trip to go to all cities indeed. Two airplanes, nearly every day another city. In Beijing they have a lot more restdays. So I think it was a recommendation in the TOK of Athens to do so.

Only the fuel for the airplanes was a high cost I think.

The total costs for Torch relay, opening and closing ceremonies, culture programma and other ceremonies was 133,4 million euros according to the Athens official report.

Sydney 2000: ceremonies 68,5 million Aus$, torch relay 11,4 million Aus$ and 38,6 million Aus$ for the cultural programma.

In Atlanta $26,647 for all ceremonies.

Salt Lake the Torch Relay costst: 25 million$

Athens was very expensive with the ceremonies, I think most of the money will go to the Torch Relay. But all NOC's had costs to organize the Relay in her own city. I don't know the exact costs because I cannot read the Transfer of Knowledge Programme.

Athens' Final Report to the IOC before the Games reported a US$90 mil budget for Ceremonies (over the last 4 years). I don't know what the euro-dollar parity was 4 years ago. So subtract US$90 mil from 133.4 euro, and you'd have the cost of the '04 Torch Relay.

Where did you get your other figures, TorchAA?

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The integral part of the torch relay has never been the cost. And,this is the first time seeing any complain coming in from the cost side of running it.

However, the Olympic is equal to the task of the million dollars or whatever amount it's cost.The torch relay has become a significant part in countries it passes through. Do you know what that should mean in the celebration context to those countries?

I think it's time to ignore pointing finger to the cost of running the torch relay.

James, you are once again completely inconsistent: you cannot one the one hand claim that the Olympics should be spread among developing nations and on the other hand disregard the fact that the cost of staging the Games keeps increasing.

Yes a global torch relay is fine but it has a cost. If one is serious about developing nations hosting the Games someday, then one has to to do whatever it takes to keep the Games cost under control. Smaller budget for ceremonies and torch relay is clearly a way to achieve that. I think the key to achieving substantial cost reduction is to save a few tens of millions anywhere it is possible.

That is not to say that there should be no international stop in the torch relay. But going back to something like Sydney did, where the Oceania countries hosted the torch on its way to Australia, is probably the most appropriate things to do. I could foresee that whenever a South-American or African city finally host the Games, the torch would visit the whole continent (that was what was proposed by both Buenos Aires and Cape Town for 2004).

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Sorry, if am completely inconsistent to you. China on the other hand is a developing country and I have ever agree with developing countries hosting the games.

I am not against your approval,anyway.Torch relay cost so far, as an integral part of the celebrations looks feasible to any developing country. And you insinuating that If one is serious about developing nations hosting the Games someday, then one has to to do whatever it takes to keep the Games cost under controlmeans scrapping the torch relay is the besy possible for the thrid world.Mind you, keeping the cost low for dveloping conutries doesn't necessarily mean the torch relay has to be cancelled but better still if it religated to few cities of the world and reducing the cost of infrastruture which is the core cost.

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Sorry, if am completely inconsistent to you. China on the other hand is a developing country and I have ever agree with developing countries hosting the games.

I am not against your approval,anyway.Torch relay cost so far, as an integral part of the celebrations looks feasible to any developing country. And you insinuating that If one is serious about developing nations hosting the Games someday, then one has to to do whatever it takes to keep the Games cost under controlmeans scrapping the torch relay is the besy possible for the thrid world.Mind you, keeping the cost low for dveloping conutries doesn't necessarily mean the torch relay has to be cancelled but better still if it religated to few cities of the world and reducing the cost of infrastruture which is the core cost.

For Christ sake, learn to read/think before you post!

I specifically did not say that scrapping the torch relay was the solution. I even did say that I was not against having a few international stops on the way to the host country.

What I said is that if developing countries (China can hardly be compared to most developing countries) were to stage the Games sometimes then whatever little cuts (be it ceremonies, smaller stadia and arenas, fewer accredited media) was the way to go.

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Athens' Final Report to the IOC before the Games reported a US$90 mil budget for Ceremonies (over the last 4 years). I don't know what the euro-dollar parity was 4 years ago. So subtract US$90 mil from 133.4 euro, and you'd have the cost of the '04 Torch Relay.

Where did you get your other figures, TorchAA?

Page 518, part 2 of the official report of Athens 2004.

I think you know where you could find it? website AAFLA

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We should know that the torch relay has no problem itself. I think scrapping it is never a good thing as this has formed an interesting part in the Olympic games. Due to history of disruptions by cancelling it would mean more than harm to those who admire it and follow it around the world.It also interesting to note that even celebrities are even involved in the torch relay thing.

Interesting because people are looking at the protests, not the Olympic torch. And having celebrities taking part is the perfect reason to scrap it if you ask me.

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Interesting because people are looking at the protests, not the Olympic torch. And having celebrities taking part is the perfect reason to scrap it if you ask me.

Can you explain that better? I don't hate seeing one of my fav.celebs bearing the torch relay.

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For Christ sake, learn to read/think before you post!

I specifically did not say that scrapping the torch relay was the solution. I even did say that I was not against having a few international stops on the way to the host country.

What I said is that if developing countries (China can hardly be compared to most developing countries) were to stage the Games sometimes then whatever little cuts (be it ceremonies, smaller stadia and arenas, fewer accredited media) was the way to go.

I though you speak French. I never said you asked for the torch relay to be scrapped either. You brought up the torch relay issue with emphasis on cost and the developing as regard my previous post.

I think you misunderstood me too. You should my post to comprehend it to before alluding to lopsidedness.

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Can you explain that better? I don't hate seeing one of my fav.celebs bearing the torch relay.

I don't see what people like Konnie Huq, for example (the one who they tried to snatch the torch from in London last week), remotely have to do with the Olympic Games and the Olympic movement. A lot of so-called 'celebrities' would turn up to the opening of an envelope and I cannot stand the culture around them.

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I do not condem the actions of the chinese government with regards to human rights and tibet. Nor do i deny the rights of people to protest but i was so disheartened to see the Olympic Torch Relay ruined by protestors.

The only thing that they managed to do was to make the IOC likely to halt future international relays, this means that thousands of people will not get the opportunity to see the flame and that many athletes will never be able to hold the flame.

If the olympics were taken away from the chineese or if there was a boycott, this will not stop the tibet crisis or improve human rights it will make the chinese resentful and will make them more determined not to change

The protestors are turning the olympic games into a platform for politcs, the sport is being overlooked

It should be up to the athletes whether they want to boycott the games not the governments or the protestors, they have all worked so hard to compete

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I do not condem the actions of the chinese government with regards to human rights and tibet. Nor do i deny the rights of people to protest but i was so disheartened to see the Olympic Torch Relay ruined by protestors.

The only thing that they managed to do was to make the IOC likely to halt future international relays, this means that thousands of people will not get the opportunity to see the flame and that many athletes will never be able to hold the flame.

If the olympics were taken away from the chineese or if there was a boycott, this will not stop the tibet crisis or improve human rights it will make the chinese resentful and will make them more determined not to change

The protestors are turning the olympic games into a platform for politcs, the sport is being overlooked

It should be up to the athletes whether they want to boycott the games not the governments or the protestors, they have all worked so hard to compete

The Olympics are politically though and the Chinese did say they would improve human rights.

The IOC is not going to get ride of the international relay, but may ask that it not be as globetrotting as the last two.

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And you insinuating that If one is serious about developing nations hosting the Games someday, then one has to to do whatever it takes to keep the Games cost under controlmeans scrapping the torch relay is the besy possible for the thrid world.
I never said you asked for the torch relay to be scrapped either

Here you go you ask for it, you get it.

Once more, total inconsistency in your post...

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Here you go you ask for it, you get it.

Once more, total inconsistency in your post...

The first one seems more or less a question while the second is explaining what I did say that you are insinuating that I said it. There's not inconsistence in that.

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The Olympics are politically though and the Chinese did say they would improve human rights.

So the Olympics has become a political event thanks to China? I know they are kinda influenctual on the global stage, but I have never figured that they have come this far!

I am a fan of the Olympics as a sporting event, and nothing else. I believe there are many who feel the same, in particular the atheletes who work so hard to compete. I will call the Olympics a political event only when it is norm for all atheletes to decide to train and particulate in an edition of the Olympics only after the venue is announced!

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But China played the political card back in 2001 to win these Games. That "these Games would 'improve' the social agenda in China, including 'Human Rights'." "By giving us (China) the Olympics, it would serve as a catalysts to 'open up' China to the rest of the world."

Now China is crying foul. Whatever. They brought this on themselves, & now they're saying that the Games shouldn't be politicized, but yet they didn't have a problem doing just that when they were bidding for the Games 7 years ago! What hypocrisy.

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So the Olympics has become a political event thanks to China? I know they are kinda influenctual on the global stage, but I have never figured that they have come this far!

I am a fan of the Olympics as a sporting event, and nothing else. I believe there are many who feel the same, in particular the atheletes who work so hard to compete. I will call the Olympics a political event only when it is norm for all atheletes to decide to train and particulate in an edition of the Olympics only after the venue is announced!

The games have always been political, it was political that the games went to Montreal in 76 and Moscow in 80, 76, 80 and 84 were politically boycotted, PRC refused to attend the games from 1948 to 1984 because of Taiwan. It was politics and trying to atone for his past that the games went to Barcelona in 1992, it was the politics of money (an the anglo-saxon conspiracy) that gave the games to Atlanta in 1996, bribery and political events in China gave the games to Sydney in 2000. Politics are inherently apart of the games, the athlete's march in under a national flag, in national colours, its nation vs. nation and the winner's anthem is played. The opening ceremonies is a national advertisement.

We have Blair, Putin, Chirac, Clinton (H), and others pitching their countries bids. We talk about geopolitics in regards to bidding cycles. A country bids for the games, paid for and supported by national governments.

Politically messages like Korea walking together, Cathy Freeman lighting the torch and numerous others on display.The event is entirely political.

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I will call the Olympics a political event only when it is norm for all atheletes to decide to train and particulate in an edition of the Olympics only after the venue is announced!

As so many have said, the games have always been a political event.

And I will call them a non-political event only when athletes stop competing as part of national teams behind their nations' flags, and partcipate solely as individuals.

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