The Torch Relay Is Discontinued In Paris

[Citius Altius Fortius]

Protesting in Paris ? what kind of courage is that ? easy, useless, a pure exercise in self satisfaction.

In front of real danger, where would these guys be ?

hektor,

what do you think will happen when suddenly visitors from western nations will start to protest in the Olympic Stadium during the Games - of course they won't be pictures on TV since the Chinese TV will produce the images, but do you think that the Chinese Secret Service will be able to control all photo cameras without knowledge of the world?

[Lee]

What annoys me most is why the people who were responsbile for the decision to award the games to China, are not being hauled in front of the TV cameras to answer questions. I don't see JAS now.

I am sick of eharing on the news people saying that sport should have nothing to do with politics. How on earth can people say that when the Olympic message and the way in which the games are leant to host countries, is entirely political...including the whole bidding process. What kind of message does it send to the world when you give the most precious hosting rights in sport to a country that refuses to abide by the very principals of the Olympic spirit.

I do feel sorry for the Chinese people. They have been awarded the games fair and square and this is their time. Unfortunately, the games should never have been awarded to China without proper human rights issues being resolved.

[savas]

merci, mekky!!

I hope Carla won't see this image!!!

Ahh, what a gigolo.. I think Carla would prefer this picture then...

this one...

[Ruling Czar]

People, its times like this when I absolutely hate to be so frank. Yet, its times like this when it is necessary. So, I 'm going to be very fank in the facts I shall present now.

Fact #1 :- The Beijing Olympics Shall be one of the most glittering Olympiads in the history of the olympic games.

Fact#2 :- Bejing, by right should not have been the host of the 2008. Juan antionio samaranch ( who bears a very real resemblance to Elmer Fudd), in his excitement to award the games to Bejing, ( whose bid was outdone by the excellent presentation of Toronto) did not consider the very problematic and very serious social and political variables that would most certainly come to the surface in asking china to host the games.

Fact #3 :- Dick Pound, by right, should have been the current IOC President. Juan Antonio Samaranch conspired with Jacque Rogge to oust Mr. Pound from ever getting that position even though Mr. Pound's devotion to the Olympic movement was incredibly exemplary.

Fact # 4:- Should the turmoil surrounding the torch relay continue or even escalate, this will hurt Doha's chances because the IOc will try as hard as possible not to have another games with such negative anxiety surrounding them.

fact #5: It is impossible to separate politics from sport. The mere fact that athletes represent their respective countries while participating in the olympics is the most basic evidence of this.

--------------------

Rule, and rule well.

[Maryjane]

People, its times like this when I absolutely hate to be so frank. Yet, its times like this when it is necessary. So, I 'm going to be very fank in the facts I shall present now.

Fact #1 :- The Beijing Olympics Shall be one of the most glittering Olympiads in the history of the olympic games.

Fact#2 :- Bejing, by right should not have been the host of the 2008. Juan antionio samaranch ( who bears a very real resemblance to Elmer Fudd), in his excitement to award the games to Bejing, ( whose bid was outdone by the excellent presentation of Toronto) did not consider the very problematic and very serious social and political variables that would most certainly come to the surface in asking china to host the games.

Fact #3 :- Dick Pound, by right, should have been the current IOC President. Juan Antonio Samaranch conspired with Jacque Rogge to oust Mr. Pound from ever getting that position even though Mr. Pound's devotion to the Olympic movement was incredibly exemplary.

Fact # 4:- Should the turmoil surrounding the torch relay continue or even escalate, this will hurt Doha's chances because the IOc will try as hard as possible not to have another games with such negative anxiety surrounding them.

fact #5: It is impossible to separate politics from sport. The mere fact that athletes represent their respective countries while participating in the olympics is the most basic evidence of this.

--------------------

Rule, and rule well.

You facts have been posting here everywhere, don't waste your time and do have some sleep

Die Westen sollen sich darüber freuen

So wie die Störaktion der Dalai Lama-Anhänger bei der Entzündung der olympischen Fackel die Chinesische Regierung unvorbereitet traf, so staunt man nun auch über die Reaktion von China auf die Falschinformationen der westlichen Medien.

Die westlichen Medien sind eine Überlegenheit gegenüber den schwerfälligen, wenig kreativen chinesischen Medien gewohnt. Diesmal allerdings haben die westlichen Medien einen neuen Gegner, die Stimmen aus dem chinesischen Volk. Für die Beteiligten in China geht es hier nicht in erster Linie um Politik und Wirtschaft, sondern um die Abwehr eines Unrechts. Sie handeln aus dem Gerechtigkeitssinn, überzeugt, diszipliniert und kreativ. Die westlichen Medien dürften durch die starke Abwehr aus der chinesischen Bevölkerung ganz überrascht sein und haben bislang keine Antwort darauf gefunden.

Diese enorme Kraft geht von einer neuen Generation von Chinesen aus, die gut ausgebildet, vielseitig informiert, selbstbewusst und vor allem unabhängig denkend ist. Das Vorurteil, dass nur „Parteitreue Söldner“ sich für China und seine Regierung einsetzen würden oder dass „alle Chinesen“ ungebildete und unformierte Nationalisten sind, ist schlichtweg falsch. Schon 1989 trat die chinesische Bevölkerung für die Demokratisierung Chinas ein, damals gegen ihre eigene Regierung. In dieser Tradition geht sie jetzt gegen die westlichen Medien vor, die nachweislich mit Falschinformationen über China berichten.

Die Aktionen der Chinesen sind durch moderne Kommunikationstechniken sehr begünstigt worden. Sie sind insbesondere stark in den virtuellen Medien. In jedem Forum und in jeder Sprache auf der Welt arbeiten sie hartnäckig daran, die Öffentlichkeit über das Unrecht der westlichen Medien zu informieren. Sie argumentieren, suchen nach Quellen und präsentieren Beweise. Auch wenn einige Ausrutscher dabei waren, zeigten die Beteiligten sich als eine Gesamtheit mit einem guten Verständnis über Demokratie und Menschenrecht.

Die Westen sollten sich eigentlich darüber freuen, denn sie haben seit Jahren für eine Demokratisierung in China und eine Verbesserung der Menschenrechtssituation gepredigt. Die Westen sind allerdings nicht darauf vorbereitet, dass sich die Anwendung des demokratischen Prinzips und des Menschenrechts auch gegen sie richten kann. Das Taktieren mit der Doppelmoral durch die westlichen Medien untergräbt nun vollends ihre Glaubwürdigkeit in China und teilweise auch in ihren eigenen Ländern, die ohnehin schon durch die Berichterstattungen im Vorfeld des Irak-Kriegs stark gelitten hat.

Diese Konfrontation wird viele Konsequenzen mit sich bringen. Sie wird vor allem die Medienlandschaft verändern und die westlichen Medien zu mehr Objektivität drängen. Politisch wird China mit einem gestärkten Selbstbewusstsein hervorgehen. Es ist zu erwarten, dass dieses Ergebnis die Schritte der Demokratisierung in China beschleunigen wird, denn ihre selbstbewussten Bürger werden ebenso ihr Recht gegen ihren eigenen Staat behaupten. In diesem Sinn hat die Konfrontation auch ihre positiven Seiten.

Die Vermarktung des Tibet-Konfliktes durch die Medien hat vor allem dem Dalai Lama beschädigt. Durch eine anhaltende Debatte über einen Olympiade-Boykott hat man gerade demonstrativ gezeigt, wie viel Wert sein Wort noch hat. Ihm wird nun ein Dialog wieder unmöglich gemacht. Schade.

[Mr Tickle]

Just Found this on the Press Association website, I presume its just an initial reaction and will be a different story come 2012.

Torch relay may be dropped for 2012

The tradition of an international torch relay could be discontinued for the London 2012 Olympics, organisers said.

Officials are drawing up plans to carry a torch around the UK to generate support for the London Olympics throughout the whole nation.

But the 70-year-old tradition of an Olympic flame lit in Greece and carried around the world by athletes may not go ahead when the games come to London.

A London 2012 spokeswoman said: "We are firmly committed to a strong domestic leg. We may have an international leg. We just don't know yet."

She denied that the uncertainty about an international relay was in response to the pro-Tibetan demonstrations in London.

Police made 37 arrests as thousands of human rights campaigners tried to disrupt the procession.

Organisers were forced to cancel the final series of relays through Paris following another day of anti-China protests.

Meanwhile, China played down the London protests insisting the actions have been widely condemned in Britain and overall people have "extended a flame of warm welcome" to the relay.

The next leg of the torch relay is in San Francisco, as the flame continues its journey through 20 countries across the world.

The international torch relay has been a fixture since 1936, when the summer games were held in Berlin.

[ChicagoFan90]

San Francisco ain't gonna be pretty

[Citius Altius Fortius]

maryjane,

when you quote you should give the source

[arwebb]

Just Found this on the Press Association website, I presume its just an initial reaction and will be a different story come 2012.

Torch relay may be dropped for 2012

The tradition of an international torch relay could be discontinued for the London 2012 Olympics, organisers said.

Officials are drawing up plans to carry a torch around the UK to generate support for the London Olympics throughout the whole nation.

But the 70-year-old tradition of an Olympic flame lit in Greece and carried around the world by athletes may not go ahead when the games come to London.

A London 2012 spokeswoman said: "We are firmly committed to a strong domestic leg. We may have an international leg. We just don't know yet."

She denied that the uncertainty about an international relay was in response to the pro-Tibetan demonstrations in London.

Police made 37 arrests as thousands of human rights campaigners tried to disrupt the procession.

Organisers were forced to cancel the final series of relays through Paris following another day of anti-China protests.

Meanwhile, China played down the London protests insisting the actions have been widely condemned in Britain and overall people have "extended a flame of warm welcome" to the relay.

The next leg of the torch relay is in San Francisco, as the flame continues its journey through 20 countries across the world.

The international torch relay has been a fixture since 1936, when the summer games were held in Berlin.

I think it's quite right that plans for 2012 remain under continual review. That seems to me to be the most sensible way forward. I think it would be sad if the tradition of the torch relay was abandoned on the basis of a knee-jerk reaction to these events.

[arwebb]

Protesting in Paris ? what kind of courage is that ? easy, useless, a pure exercise in self satisfaction.

In front of real danger, where would these guys be ?

What exactly do you expect these people to do? The fact is that by making these very clear and public protests, they are keeping the issue in the public eye, which will help to maintain some semblance of pressure on Beijing. The problem will come after August 24.

[dave199]

I can't see this getting any better as time goes by. It's gonna get much worse. I agree with most, these games shouldn't have been awarded to Beijing.

I heard Clinton and Obama are urging George Bush to push for a Boycott against the Opening Ceremony, but Bush plans on attending them.

[mattperiolat]

Just Found this on the Press Association website, I presume its just an initial reaction and will be a different story come 2012.

Torch relay may be dropped for 2012

The tradition of an international torch relay could be discontinued for the London 2012 Olympics, organisers said.

Officials are drawing up plans to carry a torch around the UK to generate support for the London Olympics throughout the whole nation.

But the 70-year-old tradition of an Olympic flame lit in Greece and carried around the world by athletes may not go ahead when the games come to London.

A London 2012 spokeswoman said: "We are firmly committed to a strong domestic leg. We may have an international leg. We just don't know yet."

She denied that the uncertainty about an international relay was in response to the pro-Tibetan demonstrations in London.

Police made 37 arrests as thousands of human rights campaigners tried to disrupt the procession.

Organisers were forced to cancel the final series of relays through Paris following another day of anti-China protests.

Meanwhile, China played down the London protests insisting the actions have been widely condemned in Britain and overall people have "extended a flame of warm welcome" to the relay.

The next leg of the torch relay is in San Francisco, as the flame continues its journey through 20 countries across the world.

The international torch relay has been a fixture since 1936, when the summer games were held in Berlin.

Gross overreaction at this point. The case on the international leg in this case is unique because of the Chinese government. Canada, Britain, no problem. MAYBE some issues with Russia. Beyond that? Who knows.

[james]

In the real snse I don't think boycott is the best solution. The west should look further on a more civilize way of curbing the problem. This Olympic and Tibet human right is supposed to be on different ground entirely. Why would the world take such step of disruption?

Where's the civility, intelligence, wit and prowess the west says it has as a group?

[Maryjane]

quote name='arwebb' date='Apr 7 2008, 10:39 PM' post='159874']

What exactly do you expect these people to do? The fact is that by making these very clear and public protests, they are keeping the issue in the public eye, which will help to maintain some semblance of pressure on Beijing. The problem will come after August 24.

Very clever and keeping the issue in the public eye.

I don't support Chinese gov blah blah on human rights, but today PARIS truly express a rubbish ego over the basic value human rights ---- PEACE!

Shame on you, Paris! even London is much better than you.

[Maryjane]

Gross overreaction at this point. The case on the international leg in this case is unique because of the Chinese government. Canada, Britain, no problem. MAYBE some issues with Russia. Beyond that? Who knows.

It will go to no end, who says Canada, Britain have to be with no problem. I almost forgot the London 7/7. And beyond that, Olympics has been roughly taken advantage by disgusting hatred and violence. If the West does do care about human rights in China, why would they suddenly jump out at this time as well as trading with them millons millons dollars almost decades?

Two faced is two faced, I have lost the faith of ideal olympics. if it always involves politics, just don't talk about those dreamy words over Olympics at the same time. what a double standards!

[baron-pierreIV]

I heard Clinton and Obama are urging George Bush to push for a Boycott against the Opening Ceremony, but Bush plans on attending them.

Ya think he'll listen to them? The MORE he will plan to attend the Opening!!

Go George!! The de Coubertins are behind ya!!

[rav3n]

As a defender of human rights, i'm completly against the chinese policies with Tibet and their own citizens. However, i'm also very angry against this bunch of idiotic activists which seems to never learn the lesson that what they're doing will not change anything. Besides, and something that maybe much of you should have think already, IF THEY DEFEND SO MUCH THE FREEDOM IN TIBET, AS WELL FOR THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH, WHY THEY DIDN'T HAD THE GUTS OF MAKING THIS LONG TIME AGO AND USING THE OLYMPICS AS A LADDER FOR IT? Seriously, to using a big event as a window for this is a completly act of cowardice and oportunism, and it doesn't matter if the media is going to put them more attention if they do so. Besides, if they defend the cultural heritage they should respect also the heritage of the olympism, or else they also playing dumb. I support that they protest, but, like the infamous Chris Crocker would say:

LEAVE THE TORCH ALONE!

I see very difficult that a global torch relay will be repeated in London 2012, after all this chaos (and surely there's more to come). It was not mistake to give the games to China, but it was a mistake of the IOC to think that the games would change China for good. This is, by far, the most biggest problem Mr. Roogge has to face on his presidency.

[Sir Rols]

As a defender of human rights, i'm completly against the chinese policies with Tibet and their own citizens. However, i'm also very angry against this bunch of idiotic activists which seems to never learn the lesson that what they're doing will not change anything. Besides, and something that maybe much of you should have think already, IF THEY DEFEND SO MUCH THE FREEDOM IN TIBET, AS WELL FOR THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH, WHY THEY DIDN'T HAD THE GUTS OF MAKING THIS LONG TIME AGO AND USING THE OLYMPICS AS A LADDER FOR IT? Seriously, to using a big event as a window for this is a completly act of cowardice and oportunism, and it doesn't matter if the media is going to put them more attention if they do so. Besides, if they defend the cultural heritage they should respect also the heritage of the olympism, or else they also playing dumb. I support that they protest, but, like the infamous Chris Crocker would say:

I see very difficult that a global torch relay will be repeated in London 2012, after all this chaos (and surely there's more to come). It was not mistake to give the games to China, but it was a mistake of the IOC to think that the games would change China for good. This is, by far, the most biggest problem Mr. Roogge has to face on his presidency.

The images of the grabbing of the Olympic torch, and the military-like operation guarding it, have certainly been shocking to all of us. And triggered some very strong emotions. But it's wrong to say Tibet protests have only just recently materialised _ they have been going for decades. They have been using the Olympics as a ladder for their concerns since it was awarded to beijing seven years ago (I remember when I first got here on GamesBids four years ago, the Tibet issue was already a very hot issue here and I'd seen protest materials linking Tibet and the Olympics long before thatn _ back to 1993 and Beijing's original 2000 bid). And the latest protests have been touched off by a very particular recent issue _ the crackdown on Tibetan protests in Lhasa and erlsewhere last month. Actions along the torch route may have been long planned, but it is last month's actions certainly fuelled the intensity of the actions of recent days.

I'm not condoning the protest tactics, nor the Chinese actions in Tibet. But it was always naive to think the relay and the games would NOT be used in what has been an ongoing decades-long propaganda war and civil movement.

[FYI]

Although these protests have been fierce, they are overwhelmingly only happening in the Western cities. All these calls that say that the Relay is gonna get worse is most likely an exaggeration. Harldy anything (if anything) came out of Almaty, Istanbul or St. Petersburg. As a matter of fact, St. Petersburg was "inspired" so much by the Torch Relay that they immediately announced plans of their own for a 2020 bid.

Once the Torch reaches Africa on the 13th & then back to Asia, everything shall most likely be quiet again. Then a minor bump in the road once again when it reaches Canberra on the 24th, then quite again when it goes back to Asia, then absolutely quite when it gets to Mainland China.

[Sir Rols]

Although these protests have been fierce, they are overwhelmingly only happening in the Western cities. All these calls that say that the Relay is gonna get worse is most likely an exaggeration. Harldy anything (if anything) came out of Almaty, Istanbul or St. Petersburg.

Actually, there were arrests and protests in Istanbul, which were noted in the relay thread here.

I imagine the relay will also get a bit rocky in Japan and India as well.

[FYI]

I thought of the Japanese, but it's hard to view them as very aggressive people at times. lol

Nagano probably won't be anything of the scale like London or Paris, but protests nonetheless.

[FYI]

Ya think he'll listen to them? The MORE he will plan to attend the Opening!!

Go George!! The de Coubertins are behind ya!!

To many, George Bush is probably the last person who should be preaching about Human Rights. And Hillary & Obama should just shut the pieholes when the USOC has a bid in place.

[AmaniS]

Although these protests have been fierce, they are overwhelmingly only happening in the Western cities. All these calls that say that the Relay is gonna get worse is most likely an exaggeration. Harldy anything (if anything) came out of Almaty, Istanbul or St. Petersburg. As a matter of fact, St. Petersburg was "inspired" so much by the Torch Relay that they immediately announced plans of their own for a 2020 bid.

Once the Torch reaches Africa on the 13th & then back to Asia, everything shall most likely be quiet again. Then a minor bump in the road once again when it reaches Canberra on the 24th, then quite again when it goes back to Asia, then absolutely quite when it gets to Mainland China.

There are certain cities that will be more trouble. But when I mean worst. I am thinking of SF and the Games themselves. How many people do you think are going are going to protest?

The thing with protest for Tibet has been going on for years. Let us look at the flip side. China(government) wanted to use this to promote themselves. Some people are saying we don't believe the hype. Also there are people with other issues besides Tibet.

[Rob2012]

IF THEY DEFEND SO MUCH THE FREEDOM IN TIBET, AS WELL FOR THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH, WHY THEY DIDN'T HAD THE GUTS OF MAKING THIS LONG TIME AGO AND USING THE OLYMPICS AS A LADDER FOR IT?

Wow, no need to shout! What a stupid argument anyway...

Don't you think many of these people would have been trying for many years to get the media and governments to make more of this? Do you think these people have been sitting on their arses for years and then suddenly when they hear about a torch relay say "Oh, I should say something about Tibet now!"? In fact the logic behind that argument does a great disservice to many people who have probably dedicated years of their lives to this cause.

If you want to blame anyone for this debacle, blame China for making it so political in the first place; for taking it through Lhasa, for closing off Mount Everest so they can take it up there and show their superiority to the world. Blame the media for only now giving this cause their full attention. And don't ever forget the huge majority of protests were peaceful.

[Maryjane]

Wow, no need to shout! What a stupid argument anyway...

Don't you think many of these people would have been trying for many years to get the media and governments to make more of this? Do you think these people have been sitting on their arses for years and then suddenly when they hear about a torch relay say "Oh, I should say something about Tibet now!"? In fact the logic behind that argument does a great disservice to many people who have probably dedicated years of their lives to this cause.

If you want to blame anyone for this debacle, blame China for making it so political in the first place; for taking it through Lhasa, for closing off Mount Everest so they can take it up there and show their superiority to the world. Blame the media for only now giving this cause their full attention. And don't ever forget the huge majority of protests were peaceful.

Peaceful your freaky ass. The truth is truth, no doubt to balme anyone except the people who ruins the Olympics at the practical level. If that's the voice those socalled ''HUMAN RIGHT WARRIOR'' want to speard to CHINA, then it only shows their disgusting prejudice and self-concious.

Good job, they finally got something to be blamed on as the losers who can only get feeling better from their lives this time.