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China Might Bar Tiananmen Broadcasts


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Yep, and they're shooting themsleves in the foot by making it difficult for visitors and broadcasters.

I really wanted London to have a huge challenge on their hands for 2012. I wanted us, the London 2012 team, and our media to be saying "how the hell do we better that?" after the 29th Olympiad had drawn to a close. But I'm starting to think more and more, as the events in China unfold, that whatever London does it'll be a breath of fresh air (both literally and figuratively).

And that's a shame.

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Yep, and they're shooting themsleves in the foot by making it difficult for visitors and broadcasters.

I really wanted London to have a huge challenge on their hands for 2012. I wanted us, the London 2012 team, and our media to be saying "how the hell do we better that?" after the 29th Olympiad had drawn to a close. But I'm starting to think more and more, as the events in China unfold, that whatever London does it'll be a breath of fresh air (both literally and figuratively).

And that's a shame.

Did you really expect that Beijing would present perfect Games -- perfect in every sense, including an atmosphere of liberty and tolerance? I absolutely never expected that. And even if the sports events and the atmosphere at the venues should be perfect: Sydney has hosted the best Olympic Games ever, and that will remain so for at least the next four years. I simply can't call Games staged in an atmosphere of repression, intolerance and violence "perfect". And thus Beijing can shove it -- only London (and future host cities) will have a go for the best Olympic Games ever.

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No, I've never expected Beijing to host a perfect games. But nor did I expect to be feeling so depressed about an event which only a few months ago I was looking forward to hugely.

All the things that have been going on in the last few weeks - from major things such as Sudan's resumption of genocide in Darfur and the Tibet crisis, to smaller things such as China's potential U-turn on being open to scrutiny, the closing of Mount Everest from both sides, and news of prosecutions for those who speak out against the Games - have dented my confidence that the Olympic spirit would shine through despite the repressive nature of China's regime.

Furthermore, I didn't expect to be hoping for parts of the London leg of the torch relay to be marred by political protests; something which, for the sake of our national concsiousness I am hoping to see on April 6th.

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Remember the Toronto 2008 bid that was recognized as technically one of the best Olympic bids ever offered to the IOC? And to think the Games would have been opening in Toronto in a few months had the IOC gone with the most stable and best technical bid.

No nation that has a bid or future Games coming up is going to stir up this hornet's nest. Canada, Britain and Russia sure won't (too risky to their own upcoming Games). The US won't (Chicago bid). Etc. Etc.

And folks, in a few months we will all be "ooing and awwwwing" at those remarkable venues in Beijing. As we all gawk with amazement, let's try to remember that only a totalitarian state with no internal opposition, free press, or need to compensate people fairly for their work (so much for that communist ideal) could accomplish what Beijing did. It's easy to build expensive venues on time when no one is allowed to object. The real accomplishments are for those Games that pull this circus off in a democratic and open environment where individuals and the media are allowed to question every aspect of venue construction and Games infrastructure improvement. When the "Free World" states host a Games, THAT is an accomplishment.

As far as I am concerned, the IOC can wallow in the mess that they made for themselves by going to such a repressive regime. In the end, the Olympics are simply about money and power.

Edited by juan antonio
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But I'm starting to think more and more, as the events in China unfold, that whatever London does it'll be a breath of fresh air (both literally and figuratively).

And that's a shame.

Isn't it interesting how London is following Bejing as it did Berlin? Once again it appears that London may be the city that will be in the position of having to restore some of the luster to the Olympic movement.

Yes we will all ooooooing and ahhhhhhhing over the fine preparations made - much as people did in '36 and even now with the Nazi efficiency of creating some of the best venues ever built. But in the end, unless China makes some drastic changes - and quick - these games will go down as a colossall embarrassment to the IOC and the Olympic movement.

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I feel like a kid that has had there favourite toy smashed up by a bully, no matter what happens, Phelps winning 8 events, Canada doing well, or whatever storyline develops during the games, they won't be remembered for that, but for what has happened before and after, Toronto or Paris should be hosting these games in a free and fair country where the world wouldn't be afraid to come, where boycotts would be out of the question, but nope.

I just hope this means that the IOC won't give the winter games to China and FIFA the world cup.

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I feel like a kid that has had there favourite toy smashed up by a bully, no matter what happens, Phelps winning 8 events, Canada doing well, or whatever storyline develops during the games, they won't be remembered for that, but for what has happened before and after, Toronto or Paris should be hosting these games in a free and fair country where the world wouldn't be afraid to come, where boycotts would be out of the question, but nope.

Welcome to how many of us on here felt in 1980-'84.

Edited by LA84
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Remember the Toronto 2008 bid that was recognized as technically one of the best Olympic bids ever offered to the IOC? And to think the Games would have been opening in Toronto in a few months had the IOC gone with the most stable and best technical bid.

We all know that awarding the Games is never based on technical merits alone. TO 2008 team knew it when they entered the race for 2008 as did the other candidate cities.

The Games are in Beijing there is no point in whining about "How great Toronto would have been"...

The real effects of the Beijing Games will have to be assessed also in the years following the Games. A 1.5-billion society needs time to evolve.

Although I strongly disapprove some of the Chinese government actions and policies, I think there is something incredibly hypocritical in expecting the Olympic Movement to achieve in China what most of our "all so virtuous" democratic governments haven't even tried (why is France willing to sell pretty much anything to China? why is Bush going to assist to the Games?). Have you heard any of our Western leaders making a clear statement about Tibet?

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We all know that awarding the Games is never based on technical merits alone. TO 2008 team knew it when they entered the race for 2008 as did the other candidate cities.

The Games are in Beijing there is no point in whining about "How great Toronto would have been"...

The real effects of the Beijing Games will have to be assessed also in the years following the Games. A 1.5-billion society needs time to evolve.

Although I strongly disapprove some of the Chinese government actions and policies, I think there is something incredibly hypocritical in expecting the Olympic Movement to achieve in China what most of our "all so virtuous" democratic governments haven't even tried (why is France willing to sell pretty much anything to China? why is Bush going to assist to the Games?). Have you heard any of our Western leaders making a clear statement about Tibet?

Hmmm - a most interesting response.

Everyone knew, in 2001, that Toronto presented the best overall plan for the games. I myself was rooting for them despite the fact I knew it would hamper any future U.S. bids by several years because it was that good.

I think most people were secretly laughing at the IOC because they actually believed that they would bring some good to China's human rights problems. But most western nations decided to play along with it and hoped for the best. It was sort of like, "O.K. - China says they will do something about the problem. Let's go with that."

And now, here we are.

As for accessing them years later that is true. But to date, they bear an uncanny resemblance to Berlin.

Time will tell I guess.

Hypocritically - I agree. Bush thumbing his nose at Congress' threatening to cut off spending for diplomats to go to Bejing is nothing more than insuring that Chicago is shown in a good light for 2016. But that is the way the Olympics work. Period. I am sure that the Tokyo and Rio contingents will also be there heaping praise on the Chinese execution of the games. Those three countries are the ones in contention for 2016 and they are not going to rock the boat.

And so, the tradition rolls along.

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Welcome to how many of us on here felt in 1980-'84.

It just seems a shame that the IOC has not learned from Berlin and Moscow.

Though its funny that Sarajevo is not talked about as oppressive hosts, though the former Yugoslavia was a far better system then what was in the Soviet Union or in modern China.

China is the industrial park of the world, our consumption based lifestyles are based on China being able to produce what we consume cheaper then we can so that our companies can make billions more then they all ready do. I think one of the things that could hurt China most is if we as western societies start to consume less and demand locally produced products that we know our safe and we built to last like in the good old days.

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China is the industrial park of the world, our consumption based lifestyles are based on China being able to produce what we consume cheaper then we can so that our companies can make billions more then they all ready do. I think one of the things that could hurt China most is if we as western societies start to consume less and demand locally produced products that we know our safe and we built to last like in the good old days.

I agree 100%.

But it's much much easier and less painful to call for a boycott (I mean who cares about the athletes anyway?).

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It just seems a shame that the IOC has not learned from Berlin and Moscow.

Though its funny that Sarajevo is not talked about as oppressive hosts, though the former Yugoslavia was a far better system then what was in the Soviet Union or in modern China.

Yea it sucks but the more I read these posts in the various Bejing threads the more I am reliving the early '80's. I am sure that people like Baron, Puppy, Roltel @ CAF would agree with me in some form or another.

Sarajevo is not talked about because it was before the time of the internet. Yea we knew there was problems there but nobody thought it was as bad as it was. And yea when they were rewarded the games there was the thought that the Olympics might help. It was during a time that the Olympics were still somewhat held above a certain standard. Now, they are looked at as bloated pigs.

Edited by LA84
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I agree 100%.

But it's much much easier and less painful to call for a boycott (I mean who cares about the athletes anyway?).

But that wouldn't stop China from the violation.

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Yea it sucks but the more I read these posts in the various Bejing threads the more I am reliving the early '80's. I am sure that people like Baron, Puppy, Roltel @ CAF would agree with me in some form or another.

Sarajevo is not talked about because it was before the time of the internet. Yea we knew there was problems there but nobody thought it was as bad as it was. And yea when they were rewarded the games there was the thought that the Olympics might help. It was during a time that the Olympics were still somewhat held above a certain standard. Now, they are looked at as bloated pigs.

At the time of Sarajevo winning, circa 1977-78, Yugoslavia was still pretty good, but by host time the foundation for separation was in place.

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I agree 100%.

But it's much much easier and less painful to call for a boycott (I mean who cares about the athletes anyway?).

I assume that is a joke?

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I assume that is a joke?

No.

As Faster and several pointed out, there are real means to put pressure on China and it is to become less dependent on goods manufactured in China. This would mean that the average Joe (including myself) would have to make an effort and change his consumption habits. Again, much easier to call for athletes, who have just been training their entire lives for this, to boycott the Games and have a clean conscience.

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Although I strongly disapprove some of the Chinese government actions and policies, I think there is something incredibly hypocritical in expecting the Olympic Movement to achieve in China what most of our "all so virtuous" democratic governments haven't even tried (why is France willing to sell pretty much anything to China? why is Bush going to assist to the Games?). Have you heard any of our Western leaders making a clear statement about Tibet?

I would agree with you Jeremie, if it wasn't the IOC itself that played the "giving the Games to Beijing will help to promote human rights and democracy in China" card. Both the host nation and the IOC trumpted that argument themselves 7 years ago now when they were awarded these Games.

As far as western leaders making statements, I think most have. Canada's Harper did.

Harper urges China to use 'restraint' in Tibet

By the way, China nicely responded by telling Canada to "butt-out".

Edited by juan antonio
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As far as western leaders making statements, I think most have. Canada's Harper did.

Harper urges China to use 'restraint' in Tibet

By the way, China nicely responded by telling Canada to "butt-out".

Yeah, very brave statement indeed. I am sure the Chinese leaders are scared. He is as convincing as Sarkozy when he said "I did mention 'Human rights' during my diner with the Chinese President".

This is exactly why I am pissed off by our leaders.

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Yeah, very brave statement indeed. I am sure the Chinese leaders are scared. He is as convincing as Sarkozy when he said "I did mention 'Human rights' during my diner with the Chinese President".

This is exactly why I am pissed off by our leaders.

You're correct, but unfortunatley, most western leaders have a much greater fear of "financial punishment" from China than a desire to engage China in a proper debate. And, I suspect Canada's hosting of the 2010 Winter Games also influences how much the PM is willing to say without risking political implications for the Vancouver Games. Such is the world we live in today.
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You're correct, but unfortunatley, most western leaders have a much greater fear of "financial punishment" from China than a desire to engage China in a proper debate. And, I suspect Canada's hosting of the 2010 Winter Games also influences how much the PM is willing to say without risking political implications for the Vancouver Games. Such is the world we live in today.

Indeed. Part of China's ambitions is that it actually needs to engage with the West as it broke its international isolation to be the nation it aspires to be decades ago. Chou En-Lai and Mao (I forgot who actually said it) said, we needed to "rope in the whale", as the whale was the United States in this statement. A lot of Western leaders, past and present, know how enigmatic China is and don't want to risk political problems in the future that will damage the business prospects.

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