passthedutchie Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 Hi folks. Been reading but not posting. I am now very proud to say I support any athlete that chooses to not attend the games in China. I have struggled with the fact that really enjoy the Olympics and what it stands for, and its importance not only for the athletes but for the world. The games are truly a time to celebrate, and humanity generally displays its positive characteristics. Given recent events, I know that we are dealing with a China that is as brutal as it was ten years ago. This China believes in peace, justice, freedom, or human rights no more than it did ten years ago, when it promised to improve its record. That promised secured enough geopolitical pressure to lock up the games it is scrambling to host. I don’t think any government should force its athletes to stay away from the Beijing games. There may be some athletes who choose to go to the games, and given their living circumstances I can understand. This is a livelihood for many, and they depend on the games to live. Maybe this should be a wake-up call for some of us to review how we treat our athletes who choose to dedicate their lives to representing our nations through amateur sport. They deserve more support and if they choose not to attend these games, they should not suffer. China should be ashamed of their management of the situation and occupation of Tibet. We should be ashamed of believing that China could change, and believing that the painted grass and green skies correspond with the Olympic spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rav3n Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 Let's be honest people. EVERYBODY not only on the forums but those who are watching the olympics, desires on the bottom of his heart a boycott, altought this will hurt greatly the reputation of the Olympic Games. But to see so much hypocresy of the chinese goverement with the peace and love, and acting reckesly like they have forgot of their promise to the world which they made in July 2001 is unconcievable. China is simply afraid of changing, like their neighbours did, they want to keep with the communism, and, while they still have a lot of power, they will NEVER let go Tibet (or else that will be a message to the inhabitants that they can speak if they don't like something), never caring about the fact that all of us know already that the communism was the biggest lie of the 20th century (and which sadly, there are still countries who thinks we still are at the Cold War). To think that an olympic games would change politics in China was stupid from the very same beggining. Still, i will still watch these games, since i'm a fan of the olympics. However, i don't think i will look at them the same way after all this Tibet issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 Man, when you get some 1.3 billion people, you need some form of control. That's why China is justified to repress their people somewhat. There are enough Chinese restaurants and laundries in the world. There's no room for more. But if it'll mean a shorter Parade of Nations, then by all means. BOYCOTT the OC!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seamus21514 Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 I fully support a boycott. Tibet deserves to be free. My people went through the same thing, and I sympathize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan in Montréal Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 I actually don't support a complete boycott; however, I believe that every attempt should be made to take advantage of the Games as a vehicle to ensure that the message goes out that the world is watching and we know that China is a massive abuser of human rights not only in Tibet, but amongst her own people. A show of solidarity and silent protest, or a complete boycott of the opening ceremonies will have a much greater impact. I just cannot envision anyone taking China seriosly, as thousands of performers dance and sing in the name of world peace and brotherhood during the opening ceremonies. And the IOC should stop whining about this. They knew exactly what the risks were when they awarded these Games to China. Did they quickly forget that Beijing lost the 2000 bid to Sydney because of politics and Tiananmen Square? The Olympics have ALWAYS been about politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatsnotmypuppy Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 Hi folks. Been reading but not posting.I am now very proud to say I support any athlete that chooses to not attend the games in China. I have struggled with the fact that really enjoy the Olympics and what it stands for, and its importance not only for the athletes but for the world. The games are truly a time to celebrate, and humanity generally displays its positive characteristics. Given recent events, I know that we are dealing with a China that is as brutal as it was ten years ago. This China believes in peace, justice, freedom, or human rights no more than it did ten years ago, when it promised to improve its record. That promised secured enough geopolitical pressure to lock up the games it is scrambling to host. I don’t think any government should force its athletes to stay away from the Beijing games. There may be some athletes who choose to go to the games, and given their living circumstances I can understand. This is a livelihood for many, and they depend on the games to live. Maybe this should be a wake-up call for some of us to review how we treat our athletes who choose to dedicate their lives to representing our nations through amateur sport. They deserve more support and if they choose not to attend these games, they should not suffer. China should be ashamed of their management of the situation and occupation of Tibet. We should be ashamed of believing that China could change, and believing that the painted grass and green skies correspond with the Olympic spirit. What is happening in China has been happening on and off for decades. Tibet will never get the full independence they want under the current regime. If they were a bit more politically astute they would infiltrate the Communist party with sympathetic politicians and try to get further autonomy. While I do personally believe the Tibetans should have a seperate liberated homeland, they are one of many ethnic groups under the thumb globally at the moment. Palestine? Kurdistan? Chechnya? Are we expecting Russia to cease actions in Chechnya because they got Sochi in 2014? Frankly I think turning your back on China is the worst thing to do. Only through dialogue and interaction with the world will the youth (who are China's real hope for a democratic future) see what else is out there - which is why I will stand by Beijing as the right host at this time. While the 2008 games have changed Beijing physically, they have changed China as a whole mentally - and any knee jerk reaction by the "outside" world will be seen as very public insult. Other arguments about Darfur are also BS. China is not the only one benefitting from the Sudanese. I've been to China numerous times over the past few decades. I visited Beijing in May 1989 and again in August of that year. If there was ever a time for uprising and widespread change it was then. I cannot help but feel the uprising at the moment is timed to put as much egg on the face of the Chinese government as possible. It is oppurtunistic and utterly futile. I sincerly hope there is no further bloodshed - but if there is both sides have to take some responsibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatsh Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 OG is for chinese people. not for communist party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob2012 Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 Are you that naive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatsh Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 Are you that naive? I don't know, and I'm not interested about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citius Altius Fortius Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 I think it is more important that sport organisations (like the IOC) don't suggest anymore that sport events can change something in the politics of the hosting nation, due that is out of their power... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 (edited) If they have good catering, some takeout and positive fortune cookies at these protests, everything will be peaceful. -- old Confucius saying. Edited March 21, 2008 by baron-pierreIV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NY20?? Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 I don‘t think I would support a practically mandatory boycott of the Opening Ceremony. For many of those non-metal caliber athletes, being part of the Ceremonies is the most exciting and memorable part of their Olympic experience(s), if not their lives, - it shouldn’t be taken away from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 I am not in the support for Beijing boycott. It would be nice the IOC let the BOCOG knows that human rights is an important parts of the deal and China must adhere to it. For me, boycotting the games will make things more complicated. So, I would advocate for dialogue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob2012 Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 I am not in the support for Beijing boycott. It would be nice the IOC let the BOCOG knows that human rights is an important parts of the deal and China must adhere to it. For me, boycotting the games will make things more complicated. So, I would advocate for dialogue. Good post James, I tend to agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatsh Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 what would be the opinion of athletes, who will be the main actor of the OG? I don't think that they'd give up the oportunity of participate in an OG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
passthedutchie Posted March 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 Dialogue is great but so far it has achieved nothing. China has the games, and still has time to manage the situation in Tibet and the unrest at home. But when will dialogue be dropped? How can the international community show that it was serious when it called for improvements with China's human rights? If things continue as is or get worse, how can you believe in dialogue? When will enough be enough for you? China has had nearly seven years to prepare for these games. We all marvel at the construction and economic achievements, but what about the most important - the promised human rights improvements? We don't even have to look at the other several categories that have degraded even worse than human rights, such as the environment, to ask - why did they get rewarded? Or will things improve after the games? China will not use these games to improve human rights and democracy for its people. It will use the games to justify and boast about the CCP and its ideologies. Those who believe in the CCP doctrine will crush the Tibetan people and its culture, and they still have their scopes set on Taiwan. The demands of the Tibetan people and its government in exile are not special. In fact most of us on these boards enjoy much greater freedoms. Tibetans are willing to work with anybody, be it the Chinese or the international community, to provide government services to Tibet provided they have religious and cultural freedoms and a say in the environment. China can work with conditions in Hong Kong, but not with Tibet? Say, do any Canadians feel like going to lay a beat-down on some Quebecois??? Americans welcome to join! Going forward, maybe the IOC should stay out of geopolitics. That would make the choices for the Olympics much easier. The reality is that geopolitics are part of the Olympics, and it was a big reason for the awarding of the games to Beijing. The youth also have to understand that the actions taken in Tibet are unacceptable. Doing the right thing comes from taking responsibility, and you can't always hope that China's youth will assume that and clean up the current mess. The timing now is a little opportunistic, but put yourself in the shoes of the oppressed, and I think you'd take any opportunity to shine light on your cause, especially one as big as the Olympics. Don't put years of human suffering ahead of two weeks of celebration. It is the fault of the Chinese government for not addressing it, especially with the world watching and expecting improvements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjmac Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 When the IOC announced that Beijing would host the summer games of 2008 over Toronto. Very few people batted an eye. This was a forgone conclusion. At that time, everyone knew the atrocities of human rights that were going on in China. Not only dealing with the Tibet issue, but also with Chinese Taipai.....who wanted to autonomy and wanted to enter their own team at Olympic games for many years. Not to mention the rights of their OWN people within the borders of China. Now, the games are quickly approaching. The Tibet situation is on the front pages of many global newspapers. Yet, the IOC is anticipating the Beijing games with an open heart. Practically ignoring the situations going on. However, a peaceful games doesn't really seem to be on the horizon for Beijing. Actionarys in Tibet have chosen a great time for this uprising (again) right before the games. Bringing the world's eyes on China's Human Rights situation again...... A boycott isn't going to happen. I just cannot see this being a successfull show of support for Tibet. The world's athletes have been gearing up for this Olympic year for some time now. After unsuccessful boycotts of 1976, 1980 and 1984. Only the athletes suffer. I do like the idea of the world's dignataries boycotting the Opening Ceremonies. This could send a very direct message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 I do like the idea of the world's dignataries boycotting the Opening Ceremonies. This could send a very direct message. But it's NOT going to change a thing. Do you really think the world's most populous nation who have harnessed their 1.3 billion human beings to produce what is now the world's second largest economy, probably World Power #3, is going to listen to some bleeding heart liberals who get this crotch itch every 4 years? Eeeennnnnnnnnnnh!! Think again. They will do it in their own good time. There are other more effective ways I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faster Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 Think about this, China has always had a large population, and have a different out-look on individuality and freedom. There has always been a group-mentality and a mentality that there will always be more people. And its not like they don't have a point, the population is still as large as ever and the importance of one human life there has never been lower. They are apathetic to so much that we find wrong and this new economic boom is only compounding it because of the classes that a re now developing between the men of means to land a woman, and those that don't. Those that don't lives are not that important because they will never produce children and therefore not an integral part of the new China, therefore expendable. Beijing has the subtlety of a elephant in a china shop and would react very harshly and threateningly react to any country that chooses to stay away. Its one of those things were the world needs China and China has the world by the balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiejie Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 Beijing has the subtlety of a elephant in a china shop and would react very harshly and threateningly react to any country that chooses to stay away. Its one of those things were the world needs China and China has the world by the balls. Sorry but I disagree strongly with the last sentence. China doesn't have the world by anything. China needs the world far more than the world needs it, if it is to keep up its economic transformation and general modernization. China has immense problems and huge vulnerabilities on political, economic, and social fronts--as a country and as individuals within. For those outside China, the mainstream media almost makes the Chinese out to be Supermen/women, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound, etc. I assure you such is not the case. I do agree that Beijing generally acts heavy-handedly on most fronts, and also that the general attitude is that the value of an individual life is worth squat. These leaders just don't get the drift of how the planet is going and they are desperate to maintain perception of their power. But I don't think an OG boycott will be particularly useful to our desired end game, and I'd leave it up to individual athletes as to whether they wanted to stay away, or go but not attend the ceremonies. I definitely think the main world leaders need refrain from attending the Games--if they bow out, the Chinese will see this as a big slap in the face, as it would be intended. But the Chinese govt really couldn't do anything about it (Games-related or otherwise) without shooting themselves in the foot even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiuTian Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 Hi folks. Been reading but not posting.I am now very proud to say I support any athlete that chooses to not attend the games in China. I have struggled with the fact that really enjoy the Olympics and what it stands for, and its importance not only for the athletes but for the world. The games are truly a time to celebrate, and humanity generally displays its positive characteristics. Given recent events, I know that we are dealing with a China that is as brutal as it was ten years ago. This China believes in peace, justice, freedom, or human rights no more than it did ten years ago, when it promised to improve its record. That promised secured enough geopolitical pressure to lock up the games it is scrambling to host. I don’t think any government should force its athletes to stay away from the Beijing games. There may be some athletes who choose to go to the games, and given their living circumstances I can understand. This is a livelihood for many, and they depend on the games to live. Maybe this should be a wake-up call for some of us to review how we treat our athletes who choose to dedicate their lives to representing our nations through amateur sport. They deserve more support and if they choose not to attend these games, they should not suffer. China should be ashamed of their management of the situation and occupation of Tibet. We should be ashamed of believing that China could change, and believing that the painted grass and green skies correspond with the Olympic spirit. I'm very angry about your comments. It shows how stupid you are. I'm laughing at you. You are typical poisoned one by the western media. You'd better go to read the Historical books, Tibet is a part of China for hundreds of years. Do you just listern to the western media how they say to you about Tibet ?? Do you really know Tibet ? If Tibet have 100 people, only 8-9 person clamored for independence. You just listern to this 8-9 person , Why don't you listern to the other 90 person's voise ? Tibet is a part of China for hundreds of years. I don't care you. Whether you boycott Beijing2008 or not, Beijing will centerly present the greatest Summer Olympics ever, and China will became one of the strongest nation in the world. I'm sure of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiuTian Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 Western media concocted false reports Tibet Western media always like to defame China. Biased coverage of China. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob2012 Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 Yeh, it's all the media's fault, obviously BTW, I don't agree with a boycott. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan in Montréal Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 But it's NOT going to change a thing. Do you really think the world's most populous nation who have harnessed their 1.3 billion human beings to produce what is now the world's second largest economy, probably World Power #3, is going to listen to some bleeding heart liberals who get this crotch itch every 4 years? Eeeennnnnnnnnnnh!! Think again. They will do it in their own good time. There are other more effective ways I think. If China gets through hosting these Games with little upheaval despite what they are doing in Tibet and to their own people, how much more influence can any other nation have beyond that? If this doesn't get them to "play nice", what other big sticks can be held over them in order to bring about change?I see this this other way around. If China is allowed to host the world and everyone basically shuts-up about what is happening, the rest of us lose all credibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan in Montréal Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 (edited) I don't care you. Whether you boycott Beijing2008 or not, Beijing will centerly present the greatest Summer Olympics ever, and China will became one of the strongest nation in the world. I'm sure of that. And when the Olympics have left Beijing, I will still be able to march down a street in my city and criticize my government publicly, and you will not. Who really has strength? If it is so strong, why is it not able to withstand internal and external scrutiny and democracy? In 50 years or less, as the wealth of the citizens of China climbs, the Communist regime will crumble, just like every other similar regime. Edited March 22, 2008 by juan antonio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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