Your Torch Relay 2008

[baron-pierreIV]

And I wonder if the relay sponsors are relieved _ that their brands didn't get caught up in protests _ or pissed, that their brands didn't get exposure?

Lenovo, the Torch designer and major IOC sponsor, did get a lot of mention amongst the various broadcast commentators -- so that one, at least, got some of its money's worth.

This run brings back memories of when I still lived in the city and went out to see the Salt Lake Torch. I was also part of the SF 2012 effort then, so we were asked to come out in support. But that one was at night, near the main SF Library in Civic Center around 8:00 p.m. There really were just a handful of people and mainly Olympic nuts like myself. Coke and GM handed out little banners then.

THe thing with these Torch runs is that if you blink, then you would miss the whole thing. ANd if there were massed crowds like today on the original, intended routes, you would have to crane your neck to actually see the Torch go by.

BTW, BASOC (the Bay Area Sports Organizing Committee), the standby group always ready to mount anything Olympic-ish or World Cup-ish, actually helped out with the logistics and runners for this whole show.

Peter Ueberroth gave SF high marks for this run. Only problem is doggone SF doesn't HAVE an Olympic Stadium ready to do the real thing!!

[LA84]

No - it's being held at SFO.

Yea I feel bad for all the individuals who were supporters and waiting along the route since early this morning. Unfortunately, the city had to take the course they did for everyone’s sake. The situation has just become too volatile. There were some minor skirmishes this morning before even half the crowd had gathered.

Edited April 9, 2008 by LA84

[Sir Rols]

Speaking of which, a CNN reporter mentioned that a group wanting the Games to played how they were originally, in the nude, were demonstrating in San Francisco today.

Only in San Francisco

Edited April 10, 2008 by Sir Roltel

[Sir Rols]

...and did those people who love the Olympics get to see the Olympic flame? No, because nobody knew where it was - therefore leaving absolutely no point to a relay in the first place (other than saving blushes in Beijing).

Yes, what a sad day for the relay _ stage a relay that no-one can see!

[SOlympiadsW]

this is all very sad and disturbing....and while I feel bad for the torch relay participants, I can't say I do for Beijing or the Chinese government....they have direct human rights violations that they said they would use the Olympics to fix (which we knew was bs) and I am glad the world isn't letting them mask it with the Olympics like the Nazi's did....what a (much deserved) embarassment for China....I think this theme will play out until the end of the Games and will come to a head this summer

[LA84]

Only in San Francisco

*ugh* between them and Dikes On Bikes no wonder I'm becoming more and more celibate while living here.

Why oh why is it always the people that should never be seen naked the ones that continually push the agenda?

[FYI]

Yes, what a sad day for the relay _ stage a relay that no-one can see!

Wonder how Buenos Aires is going to handle their Relay. Any word yet how Canberra is going to handle theirs & how many demonstrators are expected?

[rav3n]

Oh god...i'm praying that Buenos Aires don't let down so much Latin America like this recent events. Rooge surely wants to return to July 2001 and knock off Samaranch before announcing the winner.

[Sir Rols]

Update on Indonesia's plans:

JAKARTA, April 10, 2008 (AFP) - Indonesia has drastically shortened the Olympic torch route through Jakarta following massive protests in other cities, organisers said Thursday.

The torch will remain in central Jakarta, they said, scrapping plans to take it to the north and west of the sprawling capital after chaotic scenes in London and Paris.

``There has been a change of route... after the incidents in Greece, France and England,'' relay organiser Sumohadi Marsis told AFP.

``The initial plan was for the torch to leave City Hall for Chinatown then go to the National Monument Square... But there were worries from the security side.''

The torch, which arrives in Jakarta on April 22, will now be carried around a city centre sports stadium, where 1,500 police will be deployed to ensure security.

Pro-Tibet campaigners have shadowed the flame from the moment it was lit in Greece on March 24, starting its 20-country, 137,000-kilometre (85,000 mile) journey to Beijing for the August Olympic Games.

The relay route was altered in San Francisco due to protests by activists seeking to highlight many controversies surrounding the Chinese government, including its controversial rule of Tibet and human rights record.

Dozens of protesters were arrested in London when the flame passed through there on Sunday, while constant disruption forced officials to extinguish the torch five times in Paris on Monday.

International Olympic Committee chief Jacques Rogge said in Beijing Thursday he was ``saddened'' by the violent protests, but promised the Olympics would rebound.

Sigh! It's looking more and more like this will be the relay where nobody ever actually gets to see the torch!

Edited April 10, 2008 by Sir Roltel

[baron-pierreIV]

Only in San Francisco

This is reason enough to be thankful I did not go into the city today.

For a moment there I thought that one was protesting for "Hunan" food!!

I wonder why these bozos weren't arrested or cited. There were kids and families there. Plus, they're not exactly prize-winning bods.

[barrack]

Plus, they're not exactly prize-winning bods.

Nudists rarely are.

[baron-pierreIV]

Was watching the late night news recap, and one thought occurred to me. The anti-China forces got lucky in the choice of San Francisco because it is a very liberal city. Had say it been held in a more conservative city, that city administration might not have been so respectful of everyone's views. If the present Chicago Mayor Daley's father were still mayor of Chicago, all those hooligan protestors would have bleeding heads and have been hauled off to jail.

Edited April 10, 2008 by baron-pierreIV

[AmaniS]

Was watching the late night news recap, and one thought occurred to me. The anti-China forces got lucky in the choice of San Francisco because it is a very liberal city. Had say it been held in a more conservative city, that city administration might not have been so respectful of everyone's views. If the present Chicago Mayor Daley's father were still mayor of Chicago, all those hooligan protestors would have bleeding heads and have been hauled off to jail.

I am surprised that it was not in Chicago. You would not have had as many protesters. Don't they have majors in protesting in SF.

Who is responsible for what goes on in each city? I found the London part where they ran through an empty stadium a little weird. The could not invite schools to bus kids in. Put on a little show for them. give 'em some T-shirts, but an empty stadium.

[SJD88]

Was watching the late night news recap, and one thought occurred to me. The anti-China forces got lucky in the choice of San Francisco because it is a very liberal city. Had say it been held in a more conservative city, that city administration might not have been so respectful of everyone's views. If the present Chicago Mayor Daley's father were still mayor of Chicago, all those hooligan protestors would have bleeding heads and have been hauled off to jail.

Oh lord so your comparing what happened in SF to Chicago 68 this has to be the biggest international flop I have ever seen.

[baron-pierreIV]

1. I am surprised that it was not in Chicago. You would not have had as many protesters.

2. Don't they have majors in protesting in SF.

3. Who is responsible for what goes on in each city? I found the London part where they ran through an empty stadium a little weird. The could not invite schools to bus kids in. Put on a little show for them. give 'em some T-shirts, but an empty stadium.

1. The IOC probably would not have approved because Chicago is a candidate for 2016, so that would be seen as favoring Chicago. It would then have to have included Doha, Madrid, Rio, Tokyo, Baku, etc. As you can none of the 2016 entries were included. London is in there because it is the NEXT host city; and Paris because... Paris is Paris.

2. Probably master's, too.

3. What do you mean who's responsible? I imagine the City government and/or civic organizations. The SF stop was on the recommendation of the USOC. Mr. Ueberroth was still very hands-on with the run. He was in town for this event, and personally addressed the assembled runners a day or so before. There was of course, a traitor-runner, an African-American traitress from New York, who pulled out a Tibetan flag. Of course the Chinese handlers saw red, and quickly pulled the flag and this traitress from the run. I hope she didn't get her torch!!

[Olympian2004]

Who is responsible for what goes on in each city? I found the London part where they ran through an empty stadium a little weird. The could not invite schools to bus kids in. Put on a little show for them. give 'em some T-shirts, but an empty stadium.

In London, it wasn't simply a "random empty stadium" -- it was Wembley Stadium, the main venue of the 1948 Olympics! When the 2004 torch relay visited Munich, they carried the torch through the empty Olympic Stadium as well. And I believe that was also the case in Berlin.

So an empty stadium doesn't necessarily mean that it's empty because of the fear of protests against the Chinese regime.

[cfm Jeremie]

(the Parisians I don't mind )

Your continuous French bashing (or obsession about bringing back France in every topic) is fascinating... Clearly some childhood trauma involved.

[LA84]

Your continuous French bashing (or obsession about bringing back France in every topic) is fascinating... Clearly some childhood trauma involved.

Yes - a French Poodle tried to take a poo on me as a child in my sandbox while my mother was playing Edith Piaf on the record player.

[james]

Yes - a French Poodle tried to take a poo on me as a child in my sandbox while my mother was playing Edith Piaf on the record player.

That was really funny! Hahaha....

[cfm Jeremie]

Yes - a French Poodle tried to take a poo on me as a child in my sandbox while my mother was playing Edith Piaf on the record player.

I apologize, it is indeed a trauma

[its a bid of magic]

I watched the San Franscisco leg on News24 last night, and I thought it was even more farsical than London and Paris. I mean - a closing ceremony of the torch relay, conducted on a flyover' lol - The comedy material garnered from these relays have been priceless. lol Except this shouldn't be a joke, it should be a journey of 'harmony'

[baron-pierreIV]

I watched the San Franscisco leg on News24 last night, and I thought it was even more farsical than London and Paris. I mean - a closing ceremony of the torch relay, conducted on a flyover' lol -

Just for the record. The CC, or whatever there was of it; was held at SFO. What happened on the flyover was just the end of the run -- but the formal send-off was done at the airport.

Indeed, the whole thing seemed farcical. But given the options -- what were the choices? More blood in the streets -- thereby defeating the whole idea of the Olympics as a peaceful catalyst. Now, if permits weren't given to the anti-China forces, then maybe they could've stuck to the original route. But what would that say about 'democracy'?

Here's the oddest thing about it though: it started in Greece which is also the supposed 'birthplace' of western democracy. So either you can't mix the old voodoo mythology (Apollo, Zeus, etc.) stuff with opposition to it or accept the fact that opposition to the flame (or what it represents, in this case, China) as part of the equation.

They should just skip the international portions next time since the host nation can't control what happens beyond its borders. Simple as that.

[its a bid of magic]

There was no blood on the streets of London. The police did an amazing job to keep the handbags at ten paces squabbles down to a minimum, considering they went through 31 miles of some of London's busiest streets. No, yesterday, was a shambles. They thousands of people who just wanted to witness the Olympic Torch standing at a finish point like f'king lemons. I wouldn't mind but the Torch got more protection than the President of the United States, so what does that tell you about SF ability to police? Cowardly bailed out in my oppinion. Should have left it in that warehouse at the start.

[baron-pierreIV]

Yesterday's choice was the lesser of 2 evils -- and we could go on until kingdom come, debating the merits of this. You can hastily condemn the choice but I will also defend it.

The pro-Tibetan crowds were really hot under the collar and would have done anything, despite their promises to keep it peaceful, to have disrupted the run. Police sources say that they identified professional provocateurs present (I mean, Berkeley is just across the Bay,) and Newsom has many radical enemies who would resort to anything to embarrass him. Then the added presence of large numbers of pro-China crowds was another additive to the already volatile situation. So running the Torch right between the opposing forces would've been suicidal. It would've been like waving a red flag in Pamplona and would've turned the Embarcadero into a Corridor of mayhem and death. Many innocent and neutral bystanders would've been severely hurt and it would've made the Tiannamen Square massacre and the pictures from Paris look like a summer day's picnic.

Better to have disappointed them and appear 'cowardly' rather than have the blood of hundreds on one's hands and still answer charges that the City was totally moronic in foolishly wading into the 'jaws of death.' Which choice would you have made?

'Discretion is the better part of valor' was still the better choice.

Easy for you to condemn. You weren't there.

Edited April 10, 2008 by baron-pierreIV

[LA84]

There was no blood on the streets of London. The police did an amazing job to keep the handbags at ten paces squabbles down to a minimum, considering they went through 31 miles of some of London's busiest streets. No, yesterday, was a shambles. They thousands of people who just wanted to witness the Olympic Torch standing at a finish point like f'king lemons. I wouldn't mind but the Torch got more protection than the President of the United States, so what does that tell you about SF ability to police? Cowardly bailed out in my oppinion. Should have left it in that warehouse at the start.

You have a right to your opinion.

Me - just glad it didn't turn out to be the debacle that London and Paris was.

Actually, that was San Francisco and the USOC's main goal - not to have the SF run end up like London and Paris' did. And they succeeded.

Not that SF wasn't a debacle as well - it was. Just controlled better.