Your Torch Relay 2008

[Citius Altius Fortius]

Not that SF wasn't a debacle as well - it was. Just controlled better.

Maybe the IOC and the Chinese NOC proclaim tomorrow that the torch relay was a huge success in Buenos Aires since it has already taken place today without any incidents, but without audience too.

I wouldn't be surprised due the IOC puts lipstick on the pig in many situations in the last time...

Edited April 10, 2008 by Citius Altius Fortius

[LA84]

I wouldn't be surprised due the IOC puts lipstick on the pig in many situations in the last time...

The IOC and NOC are both putting lipstick on the pig that has become this torch relay!

I was saying in the past I would like to know who the idiot was that chose San Francisco and from what I understand it was the USOC. So I guess each countries NOC's were given the same choice?

[Citius Altius Fortius]

The IOC and NOC are both putting lipstick on the pig that has become this torch relay!

I was saying in the past I would like to know who the idiot was that chose San Francisco and from what I understand it was the USOC. So I guess each countries NOC's were given the same choice?

I hope you didn't take my post as a kind of "attack" - it might had been mistakable - the intention of my post was to cap your post off... (I hope I used the phrase correctly in english)

[arwebb]

You have a right to your opinion.

Me - just glad it didn't turn out to be the debacle that London and Paris was.

Actually, that was San Francisco and the USOC's main goal - not to have the SF run end up like London and Paris' did. And they succeeded.

Not that SF wasn't a debacle as well - it was. Just controlled better.

Isn't that comparing apples with oranges? The San Francisco organisers chose to take the thing right away from most of humanity. London did not. It's not as though there was some kind of mass riot across of 31 miles of London streets now, is it?

[LA84]

Isn't that comparing apples with oranges? The San Francisco organisers chose to take the thing right away from most of humanity. London did not. It's not as though there was some kind of mass riot across of 31 miles of London streets now, is it?

I'm not getting into this argument. London and Paris did what they thought was right - San Francisco what they deemed was appropriate. Some think one was right - others disagree and vice versa. Period. End of story.

CAF, re: the pig with lipstick is a great analogy, not offensive and on the mark.

[arwebb]

I'm not getting into this argument. London and Paris did what they thought was right - San Francisco what they deemed was appropriate. Some think one was right - others disagree and vice versa. Period. End of story.

That is not what I was talking about. I have my views on which was better and you have yours. My point on this occasion was that to compare the relays in London or Paris with that in San Francisco is not really comparing like with like.

[Sir Rols]

That is not what I was talking about. I have my views on which was better and you have yours. My point on this occasion was that to compare the relays in London or Paris with that in San Francisco is not really comparing like with like.

Yep, certainly different approaches, but what a choice! Either have the torch surrounded by a military phalanx or hide it away so no-one gets to see the relay!

[LA84]

Yep, certainly different approaches, but what a choice! Either have the torch surrounded by a military phalanx or hide it away so no-one gets to see the relay!

Thank you, once again you have verbalized what I was unable to express and maybe I am missing where Arwebb is going with this.

You make a lovely spokes model!

That is what this torch run has come down to thus far. A lighting of the torch that apparently nobody took seriously the fervor over Tibet. Relays that involve either a bunch of hooligans, the extinguishing of the torch and no alternative routes planned and a relay where the torch is hid, a safe alternate route executed but the true Olympic fans deprived and a pathetic downsizing of the route.

I really really hope that Buenos Aires makes us look like idiots, I really do.

Edited April 11, 2008 by LA84

[baron-pierreIV]

Some more revalations about the run in San Francisco:

1. The chosen runners were apparently polled at the last minute, after being briefed on what it was like in the streets and the proposed alternate route which would take them away from their friends and loved ones waiting on the chosen route. It was their majority consensus to go ahead with the run even if it was the altered route.

2. It turns out the anti-China forces were heavily outnumbered by the pro-China forces. Like 20 busloads were apparently brought in from all over California, even supposedly from as far as away as Los Angeles; and they were stationed strategically along the original route to drown out the Tibetan forces - and worked 2-to-1 to engage the adversaries. Hey, it's a free country.

This development in turn helped Newsom opt for the alternate route because aside from the safety concerns, he supposedly also didn't want to so easily oblige China with favorable photo opps that the bused-inPotemkim-like crowds on the original route would have provided. (But my personal opinion: good for China and Chinese-American organizations who mobilized their own counter-offensive. I haven't given Newsom more credit than he's worth. I think the boy came through with flying colors.)

Maybe the 2016 Torch run will start in San Francisco!!

Edited April 11, 2008 by baron-pierreIV

[zenica]

Beijing 2008 Olimpische Lower

[barrack]

Here's a recent article from the Washington Post. Not *my* city now, but I grew up there, so I read it everyday.

Turned Off by Torch Guards

[Olympian2004]

Beijing 2008 Olimpische Lower

What do you actually want to say? You use a very strange mix of wrongly-spelled German words and English words used in the wrong context.

[Citius Altius Fortius]

I have heard that the Chinese demand that the torch relay in Tanzania will be held without public!!! (like in San Francisco)

Furthermore the route will be shorten about more than a fourth...!!!

[james]

I think Tanzania would likely be the place the torch relay is going to witness no protest.

[Ibirapuera]

I've seen the beginning of the relay in Buenos Aires (on TV) and there were some incredible images, the streets were completely crowded of people and there was a HUGE security around the athletes who were carrying the torch...everything it seems is going fine but some people tried to extinguish the torch trowing water on it on the beginning , but they failed - also are very visible the Chinese flags on the crowds, I guess the Chinese comunity in Argentina took advantage of this opportunity to show support to their country's policies.

In other news, Maradona couldn't get to buenos aires in time (he's in Mexico)and will not be one of the athletes who are carrying the torch . So the maximum star of the day is Gabriela Sabatini , who won a silver medal in Seoul games and was one of the top female tennis players by the early 90's.

[mpkwokgsb]

Here's a recent article from the Washington Post. Not *my* city now, but I grew up there, so I read it everyday.

Turned Off by Torch Guards

Dear barrack,

Thanks for the very interesting article. here's another article, although very mild compared to the that a media very subtley affect the readers by choosing words that help enforce bias, associating events twisting causal relathipship. Sure, media has freedom of speeach and readers have free flow of info, but influence subject to this kind of reporting is unconcsience and readers get influenced without even knowing it. Again, I am not saying all media are the same, but I have seen the same sort of reporting on this issue in more than a few media.

"...A San Francisco police spokesman, Sgt. Neville Gittens, said city authorities debated whether to allow the Chinese guards to participate in the ceremonies planned Wednesday for the torch's only stop in North America. In the end, the guards stayed, but the torch was secretly rerouted to avoid protesters. ..."

the reoprter is twsiting the causal relationshipl by linking the fact that the guards stayed and the toch was rerouted.. is that really?

"...At the time, the reports said the volunteer policemen were chosen for their height, proportion and good physical condition. The reports also said the young men had received special training in five foreign languages -- learning words such as "back" and "forward" -- and were taught good manners, as well as how to drive cars and motorcycles in convoys along crowd-lined streets. ..."

learning words such as "back" and "forward" - is this reporter sure of what he/she. is he/she making it up? First, I doubt this state controlled report would have said this in its report/. Second, by seeing all the different reports in the media, this is really the first time i see this specific mentioning of the specifc phrase they learned. The reporting just make me laugh.

"...China's civilian and military authorities have joint command over the People's Armed Police, nearly 700,000 men and women assigned to protect foreign embassies in Beijing along with suppressing riots, controlling the border and fighting fires. ..."

sure... the reporter uses a cheap association tactic that instantly demonize these people. It's like a recent incident where an US army raped a 14 year old girl close to a US base in Japan, and then someone can report " this guy is from the US army which invaded and occupied Irag and killed many civilians".

PLease, for those people who strongly believe their media are perfect, this kind of reporting on this very single issue are all the same in major medias that I read (or they just copy each other's ideas, which are so apparent considering the flow and for some, wording, are very similar). These examples are just mild compared to the other twsting and uncompleted reporting on other issues. Readers' perception and judgemtn get influenced through these subconscience influences bit by bit, and over time, thorugh many issues, some party and people just get demonized in the eyes of the mass readers. Note: I am not saying China is perfect. All I am saying is the west ordinary people have been perceiving CHina with a rating of D1 and treat is accordingly. If not for these reporting and mass influence, may be China should actually be in state that deserved C+, and should be treated accordingly.

[baron-pierreIV]

They only put 2 of the Chinese 'flame attendants' on duty -- if you saw any of the footage. SF police and local runners supplemented the 2 Chinese guards.

[FYI]

Has anything been said about the Relay in B.A.? I've been watching all the news networks & all they show are snippets. Nothing major must've occured. They covered the S.F. Relay to it's entirety & nothing for B.A.!

Just goes to show the American mentality, if it ain't in the U.S., most Americans pay no mind.

[NY20??]

I watched the last torchbearer's run and the cauldron finale on TyC Sports this afternoon. There weren't any protestors and demonstrators in the crowds - at least not during the final torchbearer’s run. And there didn't seem to as much security when compared to what London, Paris, and SF had going.

All in all, it seemed much more joyous and celebratory.

[mattygs]

Reading the news. the protesters in BA appeared to come out before and said they would make surprise but non violent protests, and that unlike certain others, they wouldnt attempt to attack the torch. That's gotta be the way to go.

To be honest, the Chinese are gonna be in a lose lose situation for the continuation of this torch relay. Of course they could do a hell of alot to lessen the impact and that is where politics come to play.

But all that will be needed in future torch cities are a handful of protesters, and all of a sudden, the torch relay will once again be *rocked by protests*. I am not downplaying the previous protests around the world, but, it's got to a stage where this is the story of the event. 95 percent of the people in the ficinity of the torch could be there to cheer the thing along its route, but those 5 percent will make the headlines - kind of unfair.

Just how as every leader is asked if they will be attending the opening ceremony, those that say *no* will be seen as supporting a political leader boycott of the opening ceremony.

That is rubbish.

Some clearly have never had any intention to go, but the media won't care.

As has been mentioned here before, the British PM has not had a bigh history of late going to Olympic opening ceremonies, not attending Sydney or Atlanta I don't believe. But by not going to Beijing, it is seem as *whoah, that's a big political statement*.

It's kind of sad.

[baron-pierreIV]

Almost 465,000 gallons of jet fuel will be consumed by the time the tiny, troubled flame returns to China, after criss-crossing the oceans and continents. So, refined jet fuel is what per gallon? US$35? So around US$14,000,000 for the fuel alone? Jeez.

[FYI]

I'm surprised environmentalists aren't having a fit over that. So much for the IOC trying to advocate "Green Olympics".

[baron-pierreIV]

I'm surprised environmentalists aren't having a fit over that. So much for the IOC trying to advocate "Green Olympics".

I think the IOC really covets a different kinda "green" when it concerns their Olympix -- if you know what I mean.

[FYI]

[SJD88]

Anyone want to take bets on how many people will get arrested in Dar Es Salaam