Lula Attacks Olympic Prejudice

[jim jones]

God, my head is reeling.

It's not really prejudice. Why, Buenos Aires almost won it in 1951 over Melbourne. It's just the number of times 'new frontier' cities bid.

But the main consideration is: why should the IOC give it to cities/countries that aren't ready? It is a large responsibility -- not exactly a 'necessity' (as home, shelter, food, clothing are) nor as vital as, say a UN Conference. So, if in the collective wisdom of the IOC, a particular country isn't ready for it, why should the IOC saddle an over-reaching country for a 'mere' sports festival. [James, you in particular, seem to forget this.]

Well you are right Baron . Cities from Africa and South America have not forwarded bids simply for very good reasons Economics would not allow it or Political unrest or in the Case of Africa they were still under the yoke of Colonialism by the Europeans. For a long while the same was the case with Asia and that continent is vastly under represented for hosting rights. 3 summer games and 2 winter. with 60 percent of those in Japan.

Now in the 21st Century it is a Rio that shows more forethought in Planning then so called advanced places they bid against a few years ago.

The problem is what is over reaching? A City of London trying to Match Beijing China without the economic means and finding out they cant do it? A Sochi without a scrap of a venue but a Russian government flush with surpluses of CASH? Russia will continue to have huge surpluses for a long time with Natural Gas and Oil dollars coming from supplying Europe.

Beijing is going to be the largest for spending ever simply because it can and has the will to make that statement of being the world largest exporter of goods.

No one will bother to top Beijing simply because the means are nowheres but that country for the foreseeable future.

Whether it is London, Rio, Los Angeles or Ushuaia, Argentina not having your ducks in a row for finances and capital project planning wise because London 2012 Athen 2004 and Montreal 1976 does not do the franchise any good for the future. If London can't do it reasonably well that is not a great advertisement for the future of the games when Rogge and Company know the interest is declining. The youth olympics is an attempt to cultivate younger demographics to watch the olympics . Yeah they better have mixed marshall arts or video games because kids don't get excited by Fencing or Sailing in any sizeable numbers LOL.

Hey theres an idea for you Ushuaia for the Winter Olympics. They have the snow capped Mountains in the Southern Hemisphere and a population larger then Lillyhammer, Albertville or Lake Placid.

http://www.research.rutgers.edu/~landi/Ant.../html/P276.html

I have been there personally and it is a great little city. It has the Alpine ski resort feel more then Santiago Chile which I have been to as well. The Mountains are snow covered there during their summer as I personally witnessed in late November 2005.

Jim Jones

[Faster]

:blink: :blink: :blink: :blink:

What did I say?

Every time someone says that its the IOC being elitest, you and Ken are right there to say they haven't bid that often.

FYI

Chile does not have the necessary infrastructure of winter sports culture to host the Olympics

Venezuela is too politically unstable and has more severe problems then Brazil in regards to infrastructure.

I would love to see Argentina host and would prefer Buenos Aires over Rio. But it will be 10 years at least until they can be taken seriously again. And I think that is what Brazil is worried about, if they don't get them now, by 2024 or 2028 Buenos Aires will have the capacity and infrastructure to host.

[Fox334]

Its not prejudice, bidding for the Olympics and the fact that South America hasn't yet hosted an Olympic Game can be explained quite easily, one bid at a time. Now, this isn't to say I don't want Rio to host, it would be quite a bit of fresh air, but between a lackbuster hosting of the Pan-Ams (could and should have been much better) and the 2014 FIFA World Cup that will occupy the Brazilian sports community for quite a while, it is a long shot.

[jim jones]

Chile (moreso a Winter Olympics though) &

Venezuela (they could pay for it with their big oil money).

And despite Argentina's economic collapse a few years ago, the country's economy is starting to rebound again, & they're still the most politically stable out of all the Latin American nations. So in another 10-15 years, seeing them as a potential host again isn't that far-fetched at all. There's still a large number of immigrants from other South American countries wanting to go there, because the situation there is so much better than where they're emigrating from, so Argentina is not in such dire dispair as some on here like to portray it as so.

Mexico could also host again. Mexico last year, for the first in their history, saw a large economic boom & is the world's 12th largest economy. Mexico has always had the money, but it's just never been evenly distributed among the population, just like China, but yet Beijing is going to host one of the (if not *the*) most expensive Olympic Games to date.

What has a longer memory then an elephant? World Bankers and Multinational who got totally ripped by the Argentinian Economic collapse of 2001.

Many Many multinationals return with much caution one that will be a long time returning is the Bank of Nova Scotia that increases it's stake in many South American countries including Brazil and Chile but Argentina is a No go zone. BNS is connected to Bank of America , Barclays and a couple of huge European Banks.

Many of the executives representing Multinationals in Argentina lost everything for bank accounts and savings. It will be a long long time indeed.

As to Mexico certainly possible but Again would Mexico City be the first city outside Europe to have been awarded the Olympics Twice ? doubtful . Berlin , Rome or Paris I could see hosting Again before that happened. Simply because they are European Cities of great standing in history. Toyko could indeed be the surprize for 2016 or possibly go for 2020. if South Korea was rejected again for the winter games then Toyko 2020 is very possible.

you may think of Mexico as Latin America, which is a term, but it really is a North American country which is part of the North American free trade agreement.

Mexico is certainly not South America and that is the Continent that is looking to host for the first time in Rio. Rio to me is the iconic image of South America that would be great for TV interest . An NBC Studio next to Christ the Redemmor ! Fantastic images . All live and in prime time for the East Coast of the United States. Huge Ad dollars.

Jim jones

[jim jones]

Its not prejudice, bidding for the Olympics and the fact that South America hasn't yet hosted an Olympic Game can be explained quite easily, one bid at a time. Now, this isn't to say I don't want Rio to host, it would be quite a bit of fresh air, but between a lackbuster hosting of the Pan-Ams (could and should have been much better) and the 2014 FIFA World Cup that will occupy the Brazilian sports community for quite a while, it is a long shot.

Well lackluster hosting of the Pan Am Games Fox 334 ? Ask yourself what came before for hosting those games in 2003 ? The Dominican Republic at about 25 percent of the scale of Rio 2007 and Winnipeg 1999 on a University Campus. I cant recall an opening and closing ceremonies for the Pan am Games in a 98,000 seat stadium with samba dancers or a purpose built stadium for athletics of 45000 for the Pan Ams. I think it was actually the first time Track Cycling was held in a purpose built indoor facility for the Pan Ams. Then you have a 1000 state of the art Arena and a 1000o seat outdoor aquatics centre. Thiose fit the bill for Summer olympic events last time I checked. Very Smart building for an event in 2007 to then have use in 2016.

A very easy proposition for the IOC really. Brazil will have the World Cup Fifa Approved Stadiums in place for 2014 that would make a window of opportunity and the transportation improvements will be there as well. Killing two birds with one stone. If there is a sincere desire to go to South America and Africa by the IOC it also perhaps provides a rescue of the damage done by the press lending to London 2012. It is also a great excuse to deny America Again for about the 50 th bid attempt LOL.

Rio will probably be one of the most seamless capital project programs running up to an Olympics in recent times simply because much of it is done right now and much of the rest has to be done in advance of the World Cup 6 years away. Nine years away and Rio is more prepared then the next host LOL.

Jim jones

[baron-pierreIV]

I've already changend my mind... just to piss you off. And of course, to show others how prejudiced u are.

Ah! A true Brazilian!! So, how can the IOC award the Games to our favorite city, if YOU, claiming to be a true Brazilian, do NOT keep your word? So, why will the IOC give the Games to Brazil -- and then they will back out? So, see - who is prejudiced, chulo?

I am ashamed to have you on the same Rio team as I am!! Vai para o caralho

[thorbr]

Ah! A true Brazilian!! So, how can the IOC award the Games to our favorite city, if YOU, claiming to be a true Brazilian, do NOT keep your word? So, why will the IOC give the Games to Brazil -- and then they will back out? So, see - who is prejudiced, chulo?

I am ashamed to have you on the same Rio team as I am!! Vai para o caralho

Oh just for people here to know... "vai pro caralho" has the same meaning as **** you.... is that allowed in this forum? Anyway stupid... I don't think you are in a good position to talk about WORD in the same sentence as the name of a country.... I mean... look where you are from..... I don't even have to say anything.

[baron-pierreIV]

I don't even have to say anything.

Good. 'Cuz you have nothing new to add.

[thorbr]

Good. 'Cuz you have nothing new to add.

Sure I don't! The whole world knows the attrocities your country is able to do. So... before talking about Colombia, Ecuador, whatever else... try to look to your own asshole in chief.

[baron-pierreIV]

Sure I don't! The whole world knows the attrocities your country is able to do. So... before talking about Colombia, Ecuador, whatever else... try to look to your own asshole in chief.

Blah blah blah. So, what r u going to do about it? Vai tomar no teu cu?

[thorbr]

Blah blah blah. So, what r u going to do about it? Vai tomar no teu cu?

Oh... so now the stupid white man knows how to be a jerk ALSO in portuguese... congratulations Baron! What will I do about it? Nothing... you are right. You'll destroy yourselves soon or later.... look the kind of people u guys have up there!

[FYI]

Chile does not have the necessary infrastructure of winter sports culture to host the Olympics

Venezuela is too politically unstable and has more severe problems then Brazil in regards to infrastructure.

So then you promote & build it, like Sochi is going to do.

What political instability? Chavez has been the president for the past 10 years, & the far majority of the poplulation have no problems with him. And as far as the infrastructure is concerned, Caracas is one of the major business centers on the continent, with an extensive metro network & one of the largest airports in the region. Any other infrastructure improvements that they would need to make could easily be accomplished by their oil industry.

[FYI]

What has a longer memory then an elephant? World Bankers and Multinational who got totally ripped by the Argentinian Economic collapse of 2001.

Many Many multinationals return with much caution one that will be a long time returning is the Bank of Nova Scotia that increases it's stake in many South American countries including Brazil and Chile but Argentina is a No go zone. BNS is connected to Bank of America , Barclays and a couple of huge European Banks.

Many of the executives representing Multinationals in Argentina lost everything for bank accounts and savings. It will be a long long time indeed.

As to Mexico certainly possible but Again would Mexico City be the first city outside Europe to have been awarded the Olympics Twice ? doubtful . Berlin , Rome or Paris I could see hosting Again before that happened. Simply because they are European Cities of great standing in history. Toyko could indeed be the surprize for 2016 or possibly go for 2020. if South Korea was rejected again for the winter games then Toyko 2020 is very possible.

you may think of Mexico as Latin America, which is a term, but it really is a North American country which is part of the North American free trade agreement.

Mexico is certainly not South America and that is the Continent that is looking to host for the first time in Rio. Rio to me is the iconic image of South America that would be great for TV interest . An NBC Studio next to Christ the Redemmor ! Fantastic images . All live and in prime time for the East Coast of the United States. Huge Ad dollars.

Jim jones

Yeah, like Faster & I said, in another 10-15 years.

And FYI, jimmy, there already has been a city outside of Europe that has already hosted twice; Los Angeles in 1932 & 1984.

And I know that Mexico is not in South America & that the term Latin America is just that; A term. But a lot of times, some people like to lump all of the Latin American countries togetther even though they lie on 2 different continents, & all I was merely suggesting is that they are capable of maybe hosting again someday.

[Faster]

So then you promote & build it, like Sochi is going to do.

What political instability? Chavez has been the president for the past 10 years, & the far majority of the poplulation have no problems with him. And as far as the infrastructure is concerned, Caracas is one of the major business centers on the continent, with an extensive metro network & one of the largest airports in the region. Any other infrastructure improvements that they would need to make could easily be accomplished by their oil industry.

More so with their neighbours then domestic. Colombia and Brazil have never been too happy with Chevez. And the guy is a douche.

Bogota or Cali could have had potential if not for FARC.

[cfm Jeremie]

Every time someone says that its the IOC being elitest, you and Ken are right there to say they haven't bid that often.

Again, where did I say so?

The only comment I made on this thread is that, although I thought Lula's comment was not appropriate (AND by that I meant it's never smart to attack/criticise the people whose votes you will need, not making any comment on whether South-America should have hosted the Games already), it shouldn't matter comes 2009.

So please stop barking at me.

[Faster]

Again, where did I say so?

The only comment I made on this thread is that, although I thought Lula's comment was not appropriate (AND by that I meant it's never smart to attack/criticise the people whose votes you will need, not making any comment on whether South-America should have hosted the Games already), it shouldn't matter comes 2009.

So please stop barking at me.

You have said it other threads in regards to South America and Africa. Its the perfect argument against such comments as Lula's and I was disappointed you didn't reuse it, sorry if you took it the wrong way.

[IceNarcissus]

Since when do so many people take Lula very seriously anyways?

Personally I fail to see the negative OR positive effects of world leaders on IOC processes. It's too much of a wildcard situation.

[Kenadian]

Well, Faster, I'll make the argument...although you already said and proved it. Latin America has put forth 5 bids before the IOC for voting and one once with Mexico. That's a 1 in 5 record.

On the flip side, the United States has put forth 21 bids before the IOC since 1932 and has only won twice. Once if you count LA 84 as an acclamation.

The message is clear. The IOC is prejudiced against the United States of America!

[baron-pierreIV]

Well, Faster, I'll make the argument...although you already said and proved it. Latin America has put forth 5 bids before the IOC for voting and one once with Mexico. That's a 1 in 5 record.

On the flip side, the United States has put forth 21 bids before the IOC since 1932 and has only won twice. Once if you count LA 84 as an acclamation.

The message is clear. The IOC is prejudiced against the United States of America!

It ABSOLUTELY IS!! A new battle cry for Chicago 2016!!

[thorbr]

It ABSOLUTELY IS!! A new battle cry for Chicago 2016!!

I'm sure you'll be able to deal with this easily.... I mean... you guys are so used to be prejudiced against others that you'll surelly know what to do!

[baron-pierreIV]

Sh*Thead, don't talk to me about prejudice.

Brazil has about a 55% Afro population; the US something like 12%. You still have race quotas to get into the higher universities; there is no longer SUCH bullsh*t in the US. You recently even had to import Equal Opportunity attorneys from the US to guide your system thru a more open enrollment.

When you've have had:

- a black Miss Brazil

- a black lady Secretary of State

- a black Supreme Court Chief Justice (and a current sitting Justice)

- a black Chief of the Joint Armed Services; and

- a man almost making it as President of the US as we live and breathe, THEN talk to me about PREJUDICE.

Otherwise, keep your trap shut and DON"T YOU PREACH TO ME ABOUT PREJUDICE, chulo!!

[cfm Jeremie]

You have said it other threads in regards to South America and Africa. Its the perfect argument against such comments as Lula's and I was disappointed you didn't reuse it, sorry if you took it the wrong way.

Oops, sorry. I completely misunderstood your point.

I apologise for reacting the way I did.

[Victor Mata]

Well, actually, this quotas stuff is highly criticised by almost everybody here in Brazil afro-decendents included. I am an university student and have black classmates who don't needed quotas to get there. Most black people I know enter the university via the normal admission tests. PERIOD

Some other information:

Our first and one of the most praised national heroes is a black man called 'Zumbi dos Palmares', author of the first shout of freedom in the Western Continent.

Our culture also perfectly embodies the inheritance of our ancestors: africans, europeans and native americans.

Here in Brazil there's no such thing as "black music", "black people slangs" or secret societies à la Ku Klux Klan. There's only one brazilian music, only one brazilian culture. That's how we builded our country, mixing different knowledges from different origins. Just for you people know how mixed we are, some dermatologists counted 120 different tones of mulato (black+white) skin color.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to say that prejudice inexists here in Brazil. IT EXISTS, and in a very powerful and silent manner. Prejudiced people are not crazy to shout they're racist crap out loud because they know they'll be condemned by the public opinion and surely will be punished by the laws. They keep their thinkings within and discrimination occurs discretly, hidden, which is terrible also.

Unfortunately, it's very strange that in a consolidated country, with an educated population and where the laws are respected, even TV stars are free to blabber racist bullshit.

The question is not what country is more prejudiced than the other. What bothers brazilian and by extension latin american people is the limited vision most of the people from the 'developed world' have about us. Sometimes it feels like you discriminate us...

[FYI]

Sh*Thead, don't talk to me about prejudice.

Brazil has about a 55% Afro population; the US something like 12%. You still have race quotas to get into the higher universities; there is no longer SUCH bullsh*t in the US. You recently even had to import Equal Opportunity attorneys from the US to guide your system thru a more open enrollment.

When you've have had:

- a black Miss Brazil

- a black lady Secretary of State

- a black Supreme Court Chief Justice (and a current sitting Justice)

- a black Chief of the Joint Armed Services; and

- a man almost making it as President of the US as we live and breathe, THEN talk to me about PREJUDICE.

Otherwise, keep your trap shut and DON"T YOU PREACH TO ME ABOUT PREJUDICE, chulo!!

ROTFLMFAO!!!

[thorbr]

Sh*Thead, don't talk to me about prejudice.

Brazil has about a 55% Afro population; the US something like 12%. You still have race quotas to get into the higher universities; there is no longer SUCH bullsh*t in the US. You recently even had to import Equal Opportunity attorneys from the US to guide your system thru a more open enrollment.

When you've have had:

- a black Miss Brazil

- a black lady Secretary of State

- a black Supreme Court Chief Justice (and a current sitting Justice)

- a black Chief of the Joint Armed Services; and

- a man almost making it as President of the US as we live and breathe, THEN talk to me about PREJUDICE.

Otherwise, keep your trap shut and DON"T YOU PREACH TO ME ABOUT PREJUDICE, chulo!!

Oh sorry... I was watching Lil' Bush on tv.... Actually Baron, this guy who is trying to give you private lessons about Brazil isn't very smart.... giving you totally wrong numbers and figures.... but well, whatever... it only shows how ignorant you are. Just one thing... why are u talking about Mr. Obama? You are such a republican! Answering you.... if you consider our mixed people as Afro Population, Yes, we had Afro people in all those places. Don't forget mrs. Secretary of State is only there nowadays to show the world that a racist government, like urs, isn't "that bad"... come on... don't play the fool guy here. And do u really think Obama can win?