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Everything posted by Nacre

  1. This is a bit disingenuous, though, considering that the structures that need to be built are the most expensive venues. There are many cities that are "only" lacking the main stadium, aquatics center, and two large arenas for gymnastics and basketball.
  2. It's hard for me to believe that they can install a track in a rectangular football stadium and only lose 10,000 seats. Hampden Park lost 12,000 and it is already an oval shape. And the same will be true for the LA Coliseum in 2028.
  3. It depends on how much money they are willing to spend. Decking over a railyard would probably be the best choice for creating land, but it wouldn't be cheap. As for the stadium's purpose it would need to either be temporary or a national stadium like Stade de France. Politically I don't know if the latter option is viable with the national mens football team as one of the few things uniting the Basques and Catalans with the Castilians.
  4. I think you are seriously overstating the reality of the changes thanks to "Agenda 2020". Italy still handily beat out Sweden's bid for the 2026 winter games due to Sweden's bid using low cost existing venues and greater spread of venues. (620 km from Stockholm to Are vs 420 km from Milan to Cortina) To be clear, I have nothing against another Australian Olympics, or one in the Gold Coast. But the empty suits who will vote for the 2032 Olympics still have the same institutional interests they did when they voted for Sochi to host the 2014 Olympics. Their priorities are their sports, their sponsors and their national teams, not the economic future of the host city. Until we actually see them pick a low cost, spread out bid over a high cost, dense bid I will remain skeptical that Agenda 2020 is more than a public relations move.
  5. Sad. If Idaho could stump up the money for this then surely Sweden could manage it. I don't know the technical requirements for alpine skiing at the winter Special Olympics, but it seems to be only about 500m vertical drop. If so then this would be a great event for Scotland to host in Dundee or Aberdeen.
  6. I understand why WADA has to do this but it really, really stinks that clean Russian athletes are likely going to lose a lot of the sponsorship revenue they desperately need to live on while virtually all of the people guilty of the mess in Sochi will get taken care of by the Kremlin and various oligarchs. Welcome to life in Russia, I guess.
  7. Winter events are a lot harder to cluster together. There are many places that have ski jumps but no bobsledding track, or a speed skating rink and no alpine skiing course with the required vertical drop needed, and very few places even in Europe with everything needed for a winter games. The Netherlands has lots of support for speed skating, for example, but it would be totally unable to host if the speed skating and alpine skiing events took place at the same location. I think the best option would be to televise simultaneous events with a collective medal table.
  8. Options: build a convertible stadium (like Stade de France) build a stadium with mostly temporary seating (like Budapest's new stadium for the 2023 World Athletics Championships) build an oval stadium that is converted to a rectangle after the event (like City of Manchester Stadium after the 2002 Commonwealth Games) build a semi-oval stadium with a temporary platform or excavation for athletics (like Hampden Park for the 2014 Commonwealth Games) I think the financing and club cooperation are bigger obstacles than the technical issues. BVB, Borussia M, Schalke, Fortuna and Bayer Leverkusen all have existing stadiums that suit their needs better than a Frankenstein hybrid stadium.
  9. I think this is because of the suites and/or concourses separating tiers of seats, thus creating greater verticality. Compare Dinama Stadion in Minsk to Petrovsky Stadion in St Petersburg. They are roughly the same capacity, but the stadium in Minsk is taller and thus looks much larger.
  10. Today's MLS Cup in Seattle had an attendance of 69,274, which makes it the highest attended sporting event in the city's history. I still don't think this world cup is a good idea because of the logistics for visiting fans, but it's at least clear that the sport itself will be much better supported in 2026 than it was in 1994. The talk in town now is whether Luis Suarez might join our team in a couple of years, whereas I think 99% of Americans in the 1990's couldn't name any soccer players other than Pele and David Beckham.
  11. Or they could simply reduce the venue requirements. Why do the Commonwealth Games require a larger athletics stadium than the IAAF World Championships in Athletics? The UCI Track Cycling World Championships will make due with 1,800 seats but the CGF needs a velodrome with at least 4,000 seats. And so on.
  12. Does it still matter to the athletes and the host cities? The various continental games get little television coverage, but they do matter a great deal to the athletes (especially for athletes in the sports with Olympic qualification on the line) and to the host city. And that's all that is really needed for these events to survive. That said, Olympic qualification is an enormous advantage for the continental games over the Commonwealth Games in ensuring athlete interest.
  13. Brisbane Lions average 27,511 fans/match Brisbane Heat average 22,343 Gold Coast Suns average 19,810 Brisbane Roar average 9,632 Sure, the stadium would sell out when Brisbane hosted a major international competition, but how often will that happen? The local sports teams only need 25,000-40,000 seats, and Brisbane already has two stadiums for that role.
  14. Even a 60,000 seat stadium would still be very costly, however. Presumably it wouldn't be as expensive as Optus Stadium's $1.6 billion AU cost. Temporary stadiums have cost 1/2 to 2/3rds the cost of permanent structures at previous Olympics. (See London's water polo and basketball arenas, for example.) But even half of the cost of Perth's stadium would be $800 million AU for the sake of a 17 day event with no obvious long term use, as none of the sports teams in Queensland need a 60,000 seat venue. On the flip side if Brisbane can pull this off without any white elephants left after the circus has packed up and left, then it would genuinely show the IOC has changed. And it would also be a monumental achievement for Brisbane and Queensland.
  15. True, and there are a few sports like tennis that are better served with a September Olympics than an August Olympics.
  16. It's not just NBC. The calendars of every summer Olympic sport would have to be torn up and adjusted, and that would be a massive disruption. And it would be an even bigger problem for team sports as the IOC has either very indirect control or no control at all over the various sports leagues around the world.
  17. This whole approach seems crazy to me. Brisbane and Queensland should be thinking about what works for them and then seeing how that could work for an Olympic bid rather than making the "best bid ever" and then trying to figure out the legacy afterwards. But maybe I don't understand the Australian point of view.
  18. Speed skating rinks are different dimensions from athletics stadiums. It is possible to put a temporary rink inside an athletics stadium, but there is a very large distance from the stands to the ice. https://cdn.decoolstebaanvannederland.nl/app/uploads/2017/02/banner-1.jpg
  19. Did many people in Chile watch the closing ceremonies? Maybe they felt it was a waste of money to provide a "real" handover ceremony if few Chileans would watch?
  20. I think it partially did, along with a third track. But our Australian posters would likely know more than I do. I do think the original London model of a permanent lower bowl and a temporary upper bowl might work, but it's never been done before and it would still leave a bigger than needed stadium. Community athletics in Brisbane shouldn't need any more than 1,000-2,000 seats, whereas the seating capacity of a full lower bowl would be at least 15,000. So even that optimistic plan would force grassroot athletics in Queensland to maintain a stadium ten times the capacity it actually needs. The option that would definitely not leave behind a white elephant would be a cricket/AFL stadium of 30,000 permanent seats and 30,000+ temporary seats. But Brisbane already has Brisbane Cricket Ground and Carrara Stadium for that purpose.
  21. Things like public parks and recreational facilities generally lose money, but indirectly generate revenue through increased property values. Urban communities need public sports facilities for people to use for exercise and living in an area with good recreational facilities is more attractive, thus increasing real estate prices. To wit, the area around the Queen Elizabeth Park in London has seen a significant increase in property values since the development of the park. (Of course, that will in turn lead to complaints about gentrification.) The concern is that the Olympics -and high profile sporting events generally- have generally struggled to produce community-based facilities. The technical requirements for Olympic venues and the requirements for community facilities are very dissimilar. Sydney Olympic Park Athletic Centre is a pretty good example of a grassroots dedicated athletic center. But I don't think there's any way it could have been temporarily expanded into an Olympic Stadium.
  22. I just don't understand how Brisbane can support Olympic facilities post-games. Queensland has a population smaller than Minnesota (over an area eight times larger), and Brisbane's metro area population is analogous to that of Minneapolis. And don't be fooled by overall pop numbers. Athens has a population density of 17,000 residents per square kilometer for the urban area and about 7,500 over its metro area while Brisbane has 145 residents per square kilometer. We've seen in the past what happens when cities build stadiums for the World Cup or Olympics and then consider the needs of local sports teams afterwards. None of the teams in Brisbane need a 60,000 seat Olympic Stadium, or a 15,000 seat arena.
  23. 1) I agree. 2) The Pan-American Games are great in part precisely because they are not a massive television spectacle and corporate investment opportunity. There isn't enough money in the event for massive amounts of money to be thrown around, so the sporting federations are forced to settle for facilities that make sense for local communities. That's exactly what they should be doing anyway. I would never want Seattle to host the Olympics but rebuilding West Seattle Stadium, the King County Aquatics Center, the equestrian arenas at Bridle Trails State Park, the Jerry Baker Velodrome, et al to Pan-American Games standards would be a fine use of public money that would provide upgraded facilities for the amateur athletes of the Seattle area. Just like Toronto built sub-Olympic facilities for their 2015 games that are nonetheless great for Canadian athletes to use in training. The Pan-Ams don't attract throngs of international tourists or television viewers. They only really matter to the people living in the host city, the athletes and their families, and dedicated fans of the sports in question. And those are the people who should really matter.
  24. It's not so much an issue with either the quality or the quantity of venues, but requiring cities to have BOTH quality and quantity. There are plenty of sliding centers, speed skating rinks, et al to support the winter Olympics. They just happen to be spread out in many different cities. So the IOC is going to be faced with a lot more bids like Sweden+Latvia and Poland+Slovakia.
  25. The Olympics are basically a massive get together for world sporting figures, and there are lots of meetings and events planned outside of competition. For example Dutch skiing officials want to go to the Holland Heineken House, see their speed skating athletes compete, meet with other people in their NOC, talk with the media, etc. Do they need to do this stuff? No. But it is a major part of the Olympics. Keep in mind that winter sports people affiliated with NOC's historically resisted switching to a separate mountain and city villages because it would make it a lot harder for skiers and ice skaters to have sex during the games like they normally did. And no, I am not joking.
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