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Posts posted by gromit

  1. And especially in a case like Toronto.. it's a country that has hosted 3 Olympics, including 1 very recently. It's a city that has bid twice before (albeit not all that recently). It's not like they need that confidence boost. Comparing their Pan Ams to what it did for Rio is a stretch. Who knows how much of an effect the 2007 Pan Ams had on Rio's win for 2016, but they did miss the shortlist for 2012, so it certainly didn't hurt. The 2015 Pan Ams certainly can't hurt Toronto if they go well, but when it comes down to it, I don't think it'll make a huge difference one way or the other.

    The shortlist for 2012 was in 2004 before the Rio PanAm games. The shortlist for 2016 came 1 year after the 2007 games and therefore Rio was able to use it as 'proof' that they could host a multi sports event

    The shortlist for 2024 will probably be in 2016 a year after Toronto has strutt its stuff - this is the better comparison

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  2. Appalling events yesterday but London endured its own 7/7 event to successfully hold the 2012 Olympics

    On a seperate note, I have just found this articule about the MLS Revolution and owner Robert Kraft looking to a soccer specific stadium of 20-25,000 seats just to the north of downtown Boston in the undeveloped Interstate area.


    As people have suggested a NYC Olympic stadium could be downsized for a new Cosmos MLS team, there's no reason why Boston couldn't do the same especially as Kraft seems to be keen to get his MLS team into Boston

  3. And I guess we're having this discussion again. Why does it seem like I've gone over this before..

    You're right.. we don't know what's going to happen with Rogers Centre in terms of installing a new surface. But keep in mind that Rogers owns the stadium and the Blue Jays. They don't own the Argonauts. So if kicking them out helps their cause for the Blue Jays, nothing is stopping them from pulling the trigger. This isn't about what is technologically possible. It's about what the owners of the stadium and the team want to do. And eventually they're going to want to play on natural grass, there's not a doubt in my mind of that. If that requires the Argos to leave Rogers Centre, they're as good as gone.

    So, what of you other examples? Well, as I understand it, Millenium Stadium and LTU were designed to be converted in the way you described. Oakland Coliseum and Joe Robbie Pro Player Dolphins Dolphin Land Shark Sun Life Stupid Flanders Stadium were both initially designed to handle their original surface for both sports without a pallet design or anything of the like (as opposed to U of Phoenix Stadium which was designed like that). I did a little research and apparently it costs $250,000 to convert Oakland between baseball and football (I'm sure Mount Davis is a big reason for that price tag). Not sure what the number is for Sun Life.

    The whole point of this now grass installation is that it's going to be designed for baseball only. Could they make it work for both sports? Maybe, but I'm not sure that's an ideal solution for everyone involved. Again, this isn't about what CAN be done. It's about what the people who own and operate the stadium will want to do. Just because others ARE ABLE to do what you're suggesting does not mean Toronto WILL WANT to do what they can do.

    An interesting take but there's the old adage that nothing of nothing is in fact nothing.

    The most difficult part of adjusting the stadium is the stand configuration .... the surface by comparison is easy. A central permanent grass field with additional pallets to create a football field is comparatively simple to undertake. After all the Rogers find it easy to convert from one configuration to another including line markings so there would be a similar system in place already.

  4. For example.

    The Blue Jays played at home on 5th July and then not again until 13th July = 8 days

    On the 15th July at home and then not again until 24th July = 8 days

    On the 29th July but then not until 10th August = 11 days

    On the 19th August and then not until 30th August = 10 days

    etc etc

    Are we supposed to believe that the Welsh and Germans can reconfigure a grass surface in a retractable roof stadium in 48hours but the equally adaptable Canadians can't?

    The CFL could easily adjust the schedules ..... and I'm sure the Argonauts would be content to remain tenants whilst a new shiny Olympic stadium was built to be adapted and used by them post games down in the Port Lands

  5. The situation isn't comparable to Oakland or Miami (or any of the other stadia that have hosted both NFL and MLB. Those are not domes. What is being planned for the Blue Jays precludes that from happening in season. Hence why the Argos are being told to find somewhere else to play. Just because other stadiums can do something does not mean that provision can easily be built into an existing stadium.

    Neither is the Rogers Centre. The Rogers Centre is NOT a Dome. It is a retractable roof stadium like the Millenium and the LTU. As the capacity for the CFL team is much reduced over the MLB capacity (31,300 v 49,000 seats)

    And it only takes 30 hours to switch from the Baseball configuration to the Football configuration.


    A successful Argonauts team that can draw close to the required capacity is something the owners would not turn their nose up at

    There has been much speculation about what the switch to grass IF it happens will mean for the Argonauts, but little in the way of hard facts.

    And as the Lions proved with the BC Stadium renovation (as well as Christchurch with their new Rugby stadium) a temporary fix for a few seasons is not out of the question

  6. NCAA??

    or whatever the college football bowl is called

    Montreal showed that. Atlanta didn't. Olympic Stadium in Montreal, for all of the construction issues, was ill-suited for baseball from day 1 because they made few changes to the stadium after the Olympics. As opposed to Atlanta where the transition to baseball was very much pre-planned. Of course the flip side to that is Centennial Olympic Stadium as it originally was built only existed for about a year, if even that.

    My understanding of Rogers Centre (and this has been discussed here before).. they're looking at installing a natural grass surface there for the Blue Jays at Rogers Centre. Once that happens, they'll no longer be able to convert the stadium for CFL which is why the Argonauts are essentially being kicked out of the building. But it also means the Blue Jays could be staying there for the forseeable future, especially if they start being competitive in the AL East and there's a pretty good chance that happens this year. No idea what that does for the Argos, but there could be a need for a new stadium in Toronto on that basis.

    As the Bills are signed through 2017 to play in Toronto and the Raiders/Athletics regularly share in Oakland as the Dolphins/Marlins did in Miami I am not sure why the Jays switching to grass makes much difference to the Argonauts. I think it is one extra home game, and plenty of fields not have a palletised form of grass field - Millenimum Stadium, LTU Arena - making it easy to switch out the playing surface

  7. Yeah I'm starting to think that seems like the logical route to go but if the city does build such a massive stadium I think they'll really intensify their push for that NFL expansion franchise. Build it and they will come :P

    You'd be looking at a US $1billion for a franchise and the Toronto series hasn't really been an outstanding success.

    If you look at the Moses Mabhida Stadium in Durban


    For FIFA2010 it has a capacity of 62,760 seats, has been down sized to 54,000 seats now, can hold 69,000 seats for cricket and can temporarily be upscaled to 80,000 seats for an Olympic scales or FIFA World Cup Final. This design by GMP could be easily adapted to 4 tiers from 3 tiers. The bigger CFL field means the sightlines won't be as difficult to accommodate as for a NFL surface.

    As both Atlanta and Montreal showed, it is difficult to convert a Track & Field stadium to Baseball with significant compromise to either, and if the Blue Jays required a retractable roof would make it even more difficult.

    A stadium with an Argonauts principle tenant but available for NCAA games, and athletics (Commonwealth, Worlds etc) plus soccer and concerts wouldn't require a NFL tenant. Design it with sliding stand technology (Stade de France) and it would be even better

  8. That would be one hell of a downsizing, since I think the main venue needs to be at least 60,000 seats strong.

    80,000 seat main stadium, 4 tiers, remove the top two tiers

    Most likely option, but with Rogers telling the Argos behind the scenes to leave around 2015 the Argos are likely going to have to build a stadium sooner rather then later.

    A semi-permanent structure such as the Empire Stadium built for the Lions could be developed .... if Toronto get the games in 2017, the stadium could be opened by 2021

  9. Is converting Toronto Olympic Stadium to a new baseball stadium for the Blue Jays an option after the 2024 Olympics if Toronto becomes the host city?

    More likely it would be downsized and used by the Argonauts post-games unless a NFL franchise relocated. A 40,000 seat venue for the Argonauts would be good.

  10. USA is almost guaranteed 2026 if its going to be held in the CONCACAF region. I wouldn't want the WC hosted by Canada, just to see them lose all three games.

    14years is a long time to turn around a football team

    FIFA is very fond of Canada based on the number of age group events held there, and what better way to encourage countries to bid for these if a country is finally awarded the top tournament.

    According to FIFA's rules usually 8-10 cities with 9-11 stadiums are required

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