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Everything posted by gromit

  1. As with many Olympics, the awarding of a Games is often the impetus for the development of facilities. It is mentioned the British Alpine Championship is held in Tignes, but who heard of the course in Pyeongchang, Sochi or even Kvitfjell before the games were awarded and there was then a driving need to develop the facilities? Despite individual successes, it takes the award of a Games to move associations away from being 'lazy' and using existing facilities. There are a number of potential opportunities that exist ... the SECC could be redeveloped and at the same time be the site for Speed Skating, the Emirates Arena could be expanded, a new arena could be built in Edinburgh to offer the capital the equivalent of the SSE Hydro. It was an irony that the snow causes havoc in recent weeks but again being awarded the Games would lead to infrastructure improvements With so many traditional Alpine nations running shy of the games, the IOC would bite the hand of any democratic Western nation enthusiastic about hosting the Winter games
  2. You could argue the same for Sochi, for Beijing .... Winter Sports have not been a major event in the UK and as others have mentioned, with the closeness of European resorts there has always been chronic under investment. However that does not mean that an event could not be hosted ... especially with the Winter Olympics struggling to find bidders .... Scotland has passed Step1 .. does the physical geography exist ... Step1a is whether a course could be built of sufficient difficulty because this is where Quebec fell down
  3. Glencoe is 106 miles from Edinburgh and about 82 miles from Glasgow The summit I believe is 1108m. In Norway one of the biggest verticals is Norefjell, which has a comparatively low total height. And a lot of the Scottish mountains do have a significant prominence The biggest issue is irrespective of height, could any piste be sufficiently difficult to satisfy the FIS? Ultimately a Glasgow-Edinburgh bid would be the way to go IF there was a bid There are several venues already in Glasgow which MIGHT be adaptable for several sports or be in need of replacement .. Braehead Arena, the SECC There are teams in Edinburgh would could become the principal tennant in any new areas - Murrayfield Racers, a BBL team There are teams where if a facility was built to be convertible could utililise the redeveloped arena - Scotstoun Stadium If temporary facilities are used, they could be relocated throughout Scotland - Dundee, Aberdeen Considering the recent British success in the sliding sports a sliding track could find use, the jumping hills less so. Ultimately, most of the Scottish resorts - Glencoe, Nevis Range, Aviemore, Glenshee and the Lecht would need to be involved across many of the outdoor sports
  4. I am not so sure that Denver would need to build much. Considering how spread out the games have become it shoud be remember that there are 127m and 100m hills at Steamboat Springs which is 150 miles approximately from Denver. There are a number of existing arenas in and around Denver and Colorado Springs including the Broadmoor World Arena, the Pepsi Center, Magness Arena, Denver Coliseum and without doubt a speed skating track could be designed with an alternative future use plan. And there is considerable thought going into the development of temporary bobsleigh tracks
  5. Birmingham 2022 seems like an excellent opportunity to present a medium sized multi event games. There are plenty of excellent facilities in and around the city, and even where there may be a need to create some facilities like a velodrome, acquatic facilities etc, there are options like the Derby Velodrome or and the ability to drop acquatic facilities into an existing arena means the expense of a new facility may not be required.
  6. I did mention 'temporary' London 2012 had a temporary basketball arena quickly taken down after the games holding 12,000 people The Shayba Arena is Sochi is designed to be temporary and moveable. One of the arenas in 2018 was designed only to be temporary Lillehammer, Hamar and Gjorvik are three individual settlements with Lillehammer and Hamar over 35miles apart with their own teams. Clearly over the last 23years they've had no difficulty in effectively operating such large venues The original idea in 1994 was to have all the ice arenas in Lillehammer and the relocate two of them after the games. Nordlyshallen was originally planned as a temporary structure. There is no reason that it cannot be rebuilt for the games and then have it's capacity reduced - the Peaks Ice Arena had a capacity of 8,400 for the 2002 games since reduced to 2,300 seats
  7. According to the Norwegian media, Lillehammer is considering a bid for the 2026 or 2030 games ... if the IOC do a double bid then Lillehammer would look at 2030 only with the possibility of some events being held in Bergen, Stavanger, Oslo or Trondheim http://www.vg.no/sport/idrettspolitikk/lillehammer-utreder-ny-ol-soeknad/a/23967192/ Whilst the practicality of transportation links across Norway make the difficulty of adding extra cities unlikely, Lillehammer already has a number of existing facilities in place. Bobsleigh tracks, Biathlon/Cross Country stadia is still in place as is the Ski Jumping Hill and Arena As for the other venues there is: Hakon Hall (10,500 seats) - Ice Hockey1, Nordlyshallen in Hamar (7,000 seats) - a wooden structure, potentially expandable to 12,000 seats temporarily for Figure Skating Gjovik Olympic Hall (6,000 seats) - Curling, the Vikingskipet (10,600 seats) - Speed Skating. Kristins Hall (4,000 seats) in Lillehammer could be used for Curling The Briskeby Arena in Hamar might also have a potential use It would seem to be already better placed than the likes of Innsbruck
  8. (cont) 3. Indoor venues - new ASVEL Arena (minimum 10,500 seats) - Palais des Sports, Grenoble (12,000 seats) - Patinoire Pole Sud, Grenoble (3,496 seats) ... Bruleurs de Loops Ice Hockey - Patinoire Charlemagne (4,200 seats) ... Lyon HC - Palais des Sports de Gerland (5,910 seats) - Halle Tony Garnier (concert hall 17,000 capacity) ... 210m x 84m so potentially big enough to host a speed skating rink plus 8,000 seats 4. Outdoor venues - Stade de Gerland (43,000 seats) or Parc Olympique Lyonnais (59,186 seats) for ceremonies - Bobsleigh at L'Alpe d'Huez ... track closed but never demolished so potential to be upgraded and reopened? - new refrigeration technology could help overcome the problem of the south facing aspect - Ski jumping at Autrans which has a 97m hill already and the potential to be expanded - the Chamrousse hill which has a vertical of 850m and the Le Recoin with a 600m vertical So a mix of old and new, modernised for the games all within a maximum radius of 108 miles making it comparatively compact by modern standards ... even using existing modern facilities like La Plagne (bobsleigh) and Courcheval (Hills) would only add an extra 30miles to the radius of all the venues.
  9. By the time of the Beijing Winter Olympics in 2022, it will be 30 years since the French will have hosted the Winter Olympics. Whilst an attempt was made with Annecy and there were murmurings from Nice, the size of the Winter Olympics has reached such a level that it might be difficult for small Alpine towns and cities to economically host the games and not have a series of white elephans afterwards. Temporary facilities can only provide a limited option as the lack of legacy provides a stumbling bloc. A possible option might be to use an older host which has some of the venues in placed but tied to a larger metropolitan area which could utilise any legacy buildings. Therefore could the next French bid be ..... Lyon-Grenoble 2030 In it's favour distance between the two major centres is under 70miles two airports - Grenoble, and Lyon-Saint Exupery indoor venue
  10. "Where are you getting 17,500 from? That number isn't accurate. The number of seats lost isn't based on a percentage of capacity. The number of seats you lose is due to the size of the playing surfaces. That doesn't change based on the overall size of the arena." If you look at Page 94 of the document link you have attached you'll find the following statement Gross Capacity: 17,500 So you are quoting me accurate figures from a document you claim is not accurate ...?? Interesting
  11. You are assuming that any alteration for hockey would involve the same percentage reduction in seats? The Delta Center as hosted the Figure Skating with a reduced capacity of 17,500 seats from 19,911 seats had a drop of 12%. For Ice Hockey you lose 30% down to 14,000 seats. However the Barclay Center in Brooklyn only loses 11% of their seats when hosting the Jets instead of the Islanders. If you were to say it is somewhere in the middle for The Pit ... say a 20% loss of seats you'd get a capacity of 12,323 or 30% you'd still get a capacity of 10788 seats IOC skating capacity requirements Figure Skating 12,000 seats Ice Hockey No1 - 10,000 seats So with a 30% seat loss at the Pit you have 10,788 seats so whey for Ice Hockey1 or 20% loss you'd get 12,323 seats so whey for both Figure Skating/Ice Hockey1
  12. You could argue to same about the Alps this season
  13. Albuquerque Branch Field - 39,224 seats (Ceremonies) The Pit - 15,411 seats for baseball - Figure Skating @ 12,000 seats Tingley Coliseum - 9,286 permanent seats - Ice Hockey1 @10,000 seats Albuquerque Convention Centre - 9,048 seats in Fran Hill Exhibit Hall Johnson Gymnasium - 4,000 seats - Curling Santa Ana Star Center - 6,000 seats - Ice Hockey2 so in fact several stadiums close to the requirements the IOC need for the Winter Olympic Games. A speed skating arena is missing but this is an issue for all US bids bar SLC
  14. The way the Winter Olympics are going, thinking 'outside of the box' may have to be the norm ... these are some of the options 1) Reduce the size of the games, number of events but correspondingly the amount of sponsorship and financial income 2) Accept increasingly spread out bids where spectators have to travel ridiculous distances to see a variety of events 3) Admit there is a limit number of repeat venues with the required facilities and just repeatedly host at these locations or 4) Consider those sites that would not normally be considered traditional locations but have the i) political will to do this, ii) have some of the facilities, the desire to build them and some real practical usage afterwards and iii) distances between event sites which more traditionally conform with the IOC requirements. after all, in 2014 who thought Beijing was really considering to host the Winter Olympics?
  15. Albuquerque, New Mexico. If Seattle can enter the conversation, why not Albuquerque? The Taos Ski Valley with sufficient vertical is 150miles north, and the city has several suitable venues. It would offer a contrast to the Cascades as a North American options
  16. In the last two years there has been two major projects to alleviate two of the biggest issues on the A82 ... the Crianlarich Bypass (now completed) designed to overcome problems encountered during the summer and Pulpit Rock which was a traffic light bottleneck and where the road has now been widened. The entire Tarbet to Inverarnan route is now the focus of a 4 possible options consultation to improve this section and reduce traffic problems I think we say that as a major commercial truck road and not one that goes to know where, infrastruture investment continues without any impetus of a Winter Olympics
  17. Scotland does have the mountains ... the fact that the International Ski Federation doesn't hold events there is moot. You could argue the same with South Korea until recently and lets not even discuss Xiaohaituo in 2022 !!!!! Glencoe has 803m vertical, the Nevis Range can possibly be developed to over a 1000m vertical The Alps hardly has snow at the moment. You can jusitifably argue that Scotland has in fact got currently greater levels of snow. Maybe you should look at the historic record of snow and snow base levels over the last 10 years before commenting? If Scotland can host the multi-sport Commonwealth Games then it can certainly host the Winter Olympics. If you look to investigate proposals about developing future arenas in and around Edinburgh, you certainly realise this was the case. And in terms of accommodation a combined Glasgow/Edinburgh is more than sufficient. In terms of infrastructure, The Bridge of Orchy Rail station is less than 13 miles from Glencoe. As for the A82, " The majority of the route is a trunk road and hence managed by Transport Scotland, who view the road as a vitally important link through the Scottish Highlands and beyond" - you'd think this was some sort of dirt track with your comments I cannot think of any Olympics that did not require a multitude of different investments and in the outdoor sporting facilities this is true but is not one of purposes of an Olympics to 1) have a legacy and 2) (secretly) avoid white elephants - both Outdoor and Indoor facilities have a legacy in terms of usage with no immediate competitors for future facilities use, as do the Indoor facilities which have been built/planned/mooted for several years and are simply awaiting an impetus. If we can talk of the likes of Lake Placid (too small), Quebec (no mountain of minimum 800m vertical - BTW Scotland has one and potentially two), Stockholm (huge distances between events) Switzerland where both contenders have a sprawling venue plan and certainly this year, significant snow issues ... at the IOC is now slackening the rules of hosting the Winter Games, then all bets are off. To suggest that Scotland would be able to host a SOG and not a WOG is laughable
  18. Personally I'd love to see a Scottish Winter Olympics shared between Glasgow (pop.606,340) and Edinburgh (pop.464,990) which are 46miles apart with more than sufficient accommodation Transportation Two international airports at Glasgow and Edinburgh Two national airports at Inverness and Aberdeen providing closer accessibility to some potential outdoor venues Good rail and road links Indoor arenas .... some potential options Curling - Braehead Arena or Emirates Arena (temporary rink), Glasgow .... 4-6,000 seats depending on venue Ice Hockey2 - SSE Hydro, Glasgow .... they should be able to find space for 6,000+ seats Ice Hockey1 - Temporary Arena, Glasgow - venue to be relocated to Aberdeen and/or Dundee in much the same way as London Basketball Arena might have been relocated ... Aberdeen wish to join the EIHL, Dundee have 3(!!) Ice hockey teams including the Dundee Stars of the EIHL Speed Skating - SECC Conference Centre - (it appears physically possible to squeeze in a rink) or a larger development of the Scotstoun Stadium imitating a proposal for providing a sliding roof on the Insell Speed Skating Centre which would allow for Speed Skating, Athletics (outdoors) as well as rugby with the Glasgow Warriors http://www.vonbeiden.de/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Eisstadion-Inzell-JSK-SOP-1161x800.jpg Figure Skating/Short Track - new Edinburgh Arena to replace Meadowbank Centre .. both Bristol and Leeds are developing 12,000 seat+ arenas for Concerts etc. and in Edinburgh there could be further usage by the local ice hockey/proposed basketball teams. There has been talk for several years of a new facility in Edinburgh ranging from 7,000seats to 15,000seats and such an event could be an impetus Outdoors you've got 4 potential outdoor locations Glencoe (803m vertical) .. 80miles from Glasgow, 105miles from Edinburgh Glenshee (460m) .... 99miles from Glasgow, 84miles from Edinburgh Cairngorm (500m) ... 148miles from Glasgow, 134miles from Edinburgh Nevis Range (538m after a 650m gondola ride to the station base) ...114miles from Glasgow, 139miles from Edinburgh A sliding track could be built as a centre for British bobsleigh/luge which is one of the few winter sports the British seem to excel at. Either a permanent or temporary ski jump hill could be built using existing technology. And for the ceremonies you have a choice of 4 stadia with 50,000 seat plus (Hampden Park, Murrayfield, Celtic Park and Ibrox) The British tend to be fairly good at these multi-event games and there would be a desired legacy. Of course the weather would always be a question - but as you can see from the current Four Hills Tournament, the Alps are not awash with snow
  19. Only the Bobsleigh and Alpine events were in the Lillehammer area Indoor events, Nordic events, biathalon were all to be in and around Oslo
  20. A pity Lillehammer does not bid. Most of the venues are in place and the fast train connection from Oslo would help alleviate accommodation issues. Kristins Hall (3,197 seats) could be used for Curling, whilst Hakons Hall and the Gjovik Olympic Ice Cavern meet the seating requirements for the Ice Hockey as does Vikingskipet for Speed Skating. An expansion of the Hamar Olympic Hall (even if temporary) would conclude the arena requirements. As Opening and closing temporaries in purpose built venues are all the rage, one could be built on the Stampesletta, and you've already got the biathalon and cross country stadia, the hills, the bobsleigh run and Kvitfjell plus Hatfjell. As vast crowds (over 100,000 attended the cross country relay) made it in 1994, improved infrastructure in the following 22years would automatically suggest improved accessibility even if accommodation wasn't locally available. Of course, the political fall out of Oslo 2022 would need to be overcome but if Bach can suggest Innsbruck should bid for 2026, Lillehammer is possibly already better equiped.
  21. Yes they can. The no hosting for two series is dead. It is now a single series so after Qatar 2022, any confederation can now bid except Asia who can now bid for 2030 onwards
  22. Glasgow2014 showed how a stadium can be converted into an athletics stadium with the running track on a raised platform. An athletics legacy could be the full conversion of the warm up track into a 10,000 seat Field & Track venue. So conceivably an American city with a large oval type college stadium could have the basis for a central part of a games expanding the number of potential cities beyond LA. President Trump may be a greater obstacle than providing venues for any US bid in the next 4-8 years
  23. When Sion lost the 2006 bid, the plan was for several small towns - Sierre, Visp and Martigny to all have a small arena especially as the distances from one end to the other are about 100km. These facilities could be used to support local ice hockey teams and/or be converted into community recreation facilities post games. The original games bid document for 2006 would be a great basis The National League B of which Visp and Red Ice (Martigny) are members have an average of 3,500 fans per game .. National League A is apparently the best supported league in Europe with an average attendance over 7,000 fans ... Monthey and Sion have teams in the league below whilst Sierre historically had a team from 1933, became bankrupt in 2013 but have now been re-established Monthey to Visp is 92km (Monthey to Martigny 22km, Martigny to Sion 29km, Sion to Sierre 18km, Sierre to Visp 31km) Skiing is well represented by CransMontana, Verbier, and Veysonnaz with Zermatt not that far away
  24. But the Stade de France was not built on host the final of an athletics event ... it was built to host the final of a Football event And not only has the Stade to France held the 2003 World Athletics event, it hosts France's Diamond league fixture every year so another 60,000 event day with all that extra revenue. If an NFL team relies simply on 8 days of revenue as it's core stream a single meet adds maybe an extra 12% of revenue per year. Anyone can post pictures taken from different angles ... plonk your backside on a seat and then comment And Wembley wasn't built as a national stadium. It was built by the Football Association privately costing £947 million in today's money. No real tenant. England might play there about a dozen times a year, they hold some finals and semi finals so the FA looks at additional revenue streams Oh and here is another angle of the Stade de France. Different angle different impression https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=stade+de+france&biw=1366&bih=638&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0ahUKEwjVppeozK3PAhVIBsAKHZIBBYoQ_AUICCgD#imgrc=IB8Eiq9P4WhrsM%3A oh and another https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=stade+de+france&biw=1366&bih=638&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0ahUKEwjVppeozK3PAhVIBsAKHZIBBYoQ_AUICCgD#imgrc=hPIyRKPz_sLqhM%3A .
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