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Juso

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Everything posted by Juso

  1. I could not agree more, I wasn't going to mention the olympic flag thing as I thought I was being too nitpicky. I think the national flag equal level thing started in Athens. My purist side loved how no australian flag was even raised at the OC it was just the horseback flags and all about the olympic flag. I also think they should have had a way to keep the flag permanent and the tor dismantled around it (I actually with it would have been rather cool if they kept the tor through the athletics and used it as an unconventional podium for track a field). These may all just be symbols but it really bugs me how people attack you for wanting the IOC to adhere to them. Like I have said, it is such a slippery slope, if the illusion of the cauldron or flag are lost what does next, turning off the cauldron to save gas in each night of the games. I too welcome a return to birch style fanfares, marching bands, pomp and structure (Though DAE keep some of that spirit alive). That said it will be interesting what elements of Jack Morton and DAE style ceremonies (they have brought good fresh ideas and refinement aswell) he blends into his style in Rio.
  2. I agree, specifically for the Winter Olympics, where the main stadium is not a sport venue and there is not usually a main olympic park, I think this would be a great idea. But, I disagree with the moving of the cauldron from the main stadium/main olympic park in summer games to a general square in the downtown/cbd district of a city. I guess I am a traditionalist and feel the summer cauldron should be lit and reside in on or near the main stadium. (this becomes more confusing in Rio) Also, I think that an olympic park should be accessible during the games for non ticket holders to achieve the same access as was produced by Vancouver's city cauldron. I would hope that you can get a day pass in london on certain days to the park - does anyone know? I know in Sydney you could freely access the park without an event ticket for most of the olympics bar a few days towards the end where the multiple series of events on in the main stadium in one day caused concerns about overcrowding (moving 110,000 people out with another 110,000 coming in plus another 80,000 in the rest of the park). Conversely, even for the winter olympics these public square cauldrons cause some problems. I saw the vancouver cauldron in person and loved jack poole plaza, the problem with the vancouver cauldron, although the placement and scale made it accessible to the public, it was those characterisitics that also led to it being enclosed by fences and making it more blatantly inaccessible than a stadium cauldron. The advantage of stadium cauldrons is that they are usually (not in London of course) high enough to be seen closely but not be behind fences that disconnect the crowds from the flame. In Athens, Barcelona, Atlanta, Sydney and Torino one could stand almost underneath the cauldron and see it soar above them. (one of my most fond memories) It is a difficult conundrum that neither solution provides the best of both worlds. Sochi will no doubt have the best balance, as they will likely have a stadium external cauldron that due to the layout of their olympic park will be visible from everywhere in the park and visible from the medals plaza at the centre of park. Rio is more confusing, though I feel a compromise would be to have a permanent cauldron at the olympic park and a temporary at the ceremonies stadium. I would prefer this to multiple cauldrons all lit everywhere at the same time throughout the whole games. IMO there should be one olympic cauldron for the duration of the games (I didn't like the whistler one or hong kong, or the multiple in calgary). Though I accept that lighting/extinguishing a replica at the ceremonies is going to become a more commonplace and necessary evil. Also I think there are other ways to make olympic spirit attractions downtown. Examples include: Sydney's olympic rings on the harbour bridge, live sites and closing downtown fireworks. Or Vancouver's laser light shows and London's many giant rings etc.. I really have to stop writing long posts... just my two cents, feel free to ignore...
  3. Lol I am really sorry if I killed this thread with my ranting!
  4. I don't quite understand your reasoning that the 2012 location is showing more people worldwide the cauldron that had it been located elsewhere (ie roofline of stadium etc). The cauldron is always a focal point of olympic broadcasts, used as cutaway footage and montage work, I don't feel that these sort of shots have been more used in london, in fact, though I also cannot prove feel that there has been far less footage of the cauldron in at least CTV's and Nine/Foxtel's coverage of these games. Perhaps you're suggesting that because it is at audience level you feel it is more visible in the track and field coverage? I am not sure if I would agree and would point to other comments in this thread about how hardly visible it is being blackened, low flamed and flanked by screens and crowd. The visibilty and prominence of this cauldron is quite poor when compared to track and field broadcasts of Athens and Sydney - that both had high angle shots of track events capturing the cauldron and both had great javelin shots of the cauldron and javeling flying in the foreground, environmentally friendly or not the high cylindrical flame produced by both these cauldrons (Also developed by FCT Flames) made them, IMHO far more prominent. Beyond intentional and in stadium shots, if the London Cauldron had been on the roof, it would have, like in every other games featured in the background of every broadcasters wide shots and in the background of BBCs skybox all the time! The external view of the olympic stadium is always one of the most viewed and enduring images of any games and the cauldron is usually a part of that. This is what usually happens and why so many people on this forum are saddened by the placement. Nobody is saying they want a bowl on a pole look, yet I think this statement is a little unfair, please point to an olympic cauldron that has followed the traditional bowl on a pole look since barcelona/lilihammer? Perhaps salt lake can be argued to hold a bowl though it was quite a unique modern spin with glass and water cooling. Maybe sydney, though it was a dish not a bowl and again was, by design a modern interpretation of a classical cauldron, and in its legacy form is definitely not a bowl on pole. I actually feel that especially in the past twelve years cauldrons have been very unique. Furthermore, no one (to my knowledge) on this forum disagrees with you regarding the symbolism and overall concept of the cauldron (200 nations coming together etc), but they do have a problem with scale, position and extinguishment/movement of the London cauldron. The very design of the london cauldron was speculated earlier in this thread and was published in a concept drawing almost as is, but alot taller so that it would have been visible. I even agree thomas heatherwick's design is beautiful and unique, but has others have said, it can be argued that it is functionally flawed design for its intended purpose. The IOC may disagree with us but that's their right. Like you have said, everyone is entitled to their opinion and allowed to appreciate heatherwick's design and the positioning of the cauldron in echo to 1948, however, I feel concluding that past cauldrons are all bowl's on a pole or arguing that its position in the stadium somehow makes it the most viewed cauldron are stretching it a little far...
  5. I love this video and the look achieved for Vancouver, the look saved the design of the games as the logo itself was a bit bland. (Let me clarify I like the innukshuk idea just wish it was more stylised and maybed reworked the way the paralympic and torch relay logos were - which were so much better..) Compared to:
  6. No I wasn't thinking of Singapore's Silver Jubilee, especially seeing was 5 years old and it was celebrating completely different things in completely different countries. I did check Birch's website and could not find any evidence like I said before. Anyhoo, no matter, I must simply going crazy, don't mind me....
  7. Lets do it, I would love to play with this design, just the process of creating the look for fun would be an interesting process.
  8. This look as is I feel is okay for banners clothing merchandise, maybe for the venue they could streamline the look by making a colourised version that only includes tonal versions of the one colour (ie desaturated and tinted purple red, green blue)... I might play in illustrator tonight
  9. I know it was contracted to Jack Morton's but I have this defiant memory that that particular segment (painting queen) had some sort of involvement with Ric Birch, unless the commentators were mistaken (not the first time). I have been looking on the web and I cannot find any evidence of his involvement, unless he was maybe involved externally in the golden jubilee celebrations and thats why he was referred to in the broadcast. Unless anyone has any other insights I guess I have to accept that I am just going crazy.
  10. I remember that, it was quite good indeed. Wasn't Ric Birch involved in that ceremony too? I remember that OC had a nod to QEII's Golden Jubilee, it is a shame it wasn't done in London for the Diamond.
  11. I agree on the color proportions and maybe varied scales of cropping and zooming
  12. Interesting I didn't realise the innsbruck director was the same nor tommy walker, hence the preface 'to my knowledge'. I agree regarding the huge flag thing, i mean it ripped at the sydney rehearsal aswell, its lucky it actually worked, but I was just referencing it to suggest that many things in ceremonies are improvements and refinements to previous ceremonies, not point throw copy charges here there and everywhere...
  13. I think at two years out, its a nice look and will no doubt mature, could be quite busy/intricate like vancouver, ie looks amazing in person and stills but with motion is a bit blurry. I guess it will depend at what scale they choose to brand venues with the look. If they really zoom in on snippets and strips and alternate the strips/colours at alternate seating tiers I think it could look good. But I also share Baron's fears that the sochi look might be too much if applied in the venues less carefully. What will also be interesting is how they use the wordmark in their venue strip branding as we have not seen it on one line only the two lined version.
  14. Back to the thread topic, I think the Archery, Basketball and Beach Volleyball venues look great. The stadium looks good in royal purple, but I think some thought needs to be had about how to balance the needs of Moving head lighting rigs and the look branding. In the stadium alot of the look is blocked by the MACs and other rigging. This happened alot in Athens as well, not as much in beijing, but it spoils the stadium branding a little for me.
  15. Of course it is a biased view, but I felt it was quite memorable in person. It also was a look that worked well in print (programmes, documentation and posters), so I guess it perhaps did not translate well over broadcasts and was therefore forgettable, as you have suggested. I think in the context of the time Sydney's look was quite groundbreaking. It's unique custom made font wordmark was a first for olympic branding and to my knowledge was the first look to rely on the wordmark solely in branding without the logo in place with it (Atlanta's wordmark had the logo sitting in the middle between city and year, Barcelona and nagano both had the logo to the left of the wordmark in branding of venues). Both of these innovations had dramatic repercussions on future olympic branding (Torino, beijing and London), bringing the wordmark to forward relevance, perhaps more than the logo itself. Even the wordmarks that did not use custom fonts in the past decade have also adopted use of the wordmark without logo on branding strips. I have a personal affection for the sydney brand, but it is far from my favourite, I just feel its' merits and influence are under appreciated. For anyone interested a very good case study of the sydney brand was published this year: PDF (Better Version):http://r-co.com.au/media/36944/sydney_2000_olympic_games.pdf http://blog.r-co.com.au/case-study-the-sydney-2000-olympic-games-brand-identity-program/#disqus_thread
  16. I think London's Look works very well for digital photography and HD Video. But is within that very statement that I think comparisons to much older looks can be a bit unfair. Whilst comparisons to Athens (First fully HD games) and beijing are fairer, when looking at Sydney and Atlanta one has to remember alot of the photography and footage was done in analog formats. (For those of you who think that it doesn't really matter consider how TV shows such as magyver or Star Trek TNG were filmed compared 24 or Battelstar Galatica). HD and Digital photography allow for much better colour reproduction and contrast and beyond that, also more detail. Some people have criticised atlanta's and sydney's looks as too bland with one flat colour (which with sydney is actually untrue there were several base colours but the blue was very very dominant), aside from the fact that as olympic looks evolve they should get better and better, the target tv's for those games could really only handle a flat colour and wordmark effect and would oversaturate the colours and patterns. A gradient rainbow like beijing would have looked like a mess on those TVs. The old tv's also have another effect on these looks - that they looked a hell of alot better in real life than what most people saw on television. As anyone who attended Atlanta or Sydney can attest. The detailed quilt design of atlanta was effectively lost in many instances and would been far more impressive in HD. Sydney's subtle dynamic energy was actually quite a good balance of busy and sleek and again would have com across better in HD. Please see these decent resolution photos of the sydney look as an example of how the look shows up much better when captured digitally/sharper. A direct comparison of the oversaturated blurry SD video and Digitial HD (technically digital SLR still but for illustration purposes) (Though that last london pic might be a bit misleading due to the focus in the photo to the branding not feet, but my signature is a further infinite focus example of the difference in sharpness, exposure and colour reproduction.)
  17. Just to start this argument again, I think this who copied who debate is almost pointless when it comes to these big event ceremonies. For the majority of the audience, they forget what effects/segments and sets were used in the Vancouver Opening Ceremony let alone beijing, athens, sydney, atlanta and barcelona. For those of us who do care, I think, we have to be honest and admit that each ceremony helps to build on the successes of the next and collectively ingenious ideas become not only repeated, but become expected parts of what an Olympic ceremony should be. Barcelona, at least, from and OLYMPIC ceremony perspective was arguably the first ceremony to refine the new format introduced in Moscow and answered in LA. To my knowledge it is also the first ceremony to be produced by someone who had produced an olympic ceremony before. The tarp may have been introduced in barcelona (initially auckland - or perhaps earlier), it was a clever idea and therefore used again in Atlanta, in Sydney, the idea was again refined and a dirt/dust effect was used (which some people may not like, but I think worked in Australia, and was impressive at the time compared to what had gone before), athens took it even further and used water and staging in the whole arena and so forth. It is inevitable that elements of ceremonies are copied, re-used and re-interpreted in each ceremony. Hola - How you all doing - Gday are all welcome segments that made sense for the countries to welcome in their specific style and copied or not were a good idea (it wouldn't really have been appropriate in london for example). Further to this somethings are blantantly copied and become tradtions and commonplace in ceremonies. Much of the dominant format used in modern ceremonies is probably traced back to Ric Birch and the Spektak team ie using a stage at the base of the stands (like the tor) putting an orchestra there, placing the flags of the nation there and having speeches there. Accusing sydney or london of copying LA's and Barcelona's stages becomes pointless. Another perfect example of this sort of copying that didn't catch on was Ric Birch's reuse of the barcelona big flag effect in Sydney, which in an interview he hoped would become a permanent fixture of oympic ceremonies. END OF RANT
  18. Yeah it is nice, I just wish they never split the cauldron saucer from the mast, I get the idea and i think it is a very nice fountain, but it was such a classic and beautiful cauldron as one piece and the super narrow and tall flame was so awesome. I still can't believe they threw the mast in the trash, bit like the harbour bridge rings.....
  19. I share your concerns, though its been a while since a solely Birch directed Summer ceremony so it I think it will be a little more fresh and different compared to Atkin's style that is becoming the common format now. I also used to cringe regarding the stadium not being used for athletics and holding the cauldron, but after the hidden cauldron in London, I will be happy with anything as long as one can see it from outside the stadium and it is not randomly extinguished during the games. People may feel it is an overreaction to be annoyed with extinguishing of the flame, saying you can't possibly believe its the same flame, its a show and symbol. But this is the exact reason i think its important it is only a symbol and tradition, if we can't even stick to the tradition then a slippery slope from there, maybe save gas between 1am - 6am?
  20. Another reason to not count out Coates is I am pretty sure he was pretty instrumental in the creation of the YOGs based on AOYF and other similar NOC based youth olympic festivals (I remember reading this somewhere, please correct me if I am wrong). The other factor may stem back to Sydney 2000 where one has to remember Roggue was head of the IOC oversight and they both worked very closely. Though being close to the current boss is not a qualifier in itself, it suggests he may be part of the same political force within the IOC and has shown ingenuity and competence from not only a NOC - AOC sport management perspective and some degree of OCOG operational experience/knowledge..
  21. Fair enough, I stand corrected. Come to think of it, its makes sense because when the fireworks were used in torino to light the cauldron, I felt like I had seen it done before. Thanks for the video, I loved the tree in that ceremony.
  22. I have a feeling it could be either Dick Pound or maybe event Aussie John Coates (though I don't know what his french is like lol) - only reason I am even considering Coates is his presence in the official box in London's OC directly behind the Her Majesty and Roggue
  23. I think the symbolism of the lighting and concept were great... I'm proud my fellow Sydneysider can be uncharacteristically objective, but also as a Sydneysider, me and my bias are not quite ready to concede.
  24. And of course wordmarks only tell part of the story, but in the context of the part of the previous conversation, we were specifically discussing them and not the looks overall.
  25. Athensfan, I completely agree, to be clear it wasn't an attack, it wasmore a comment on how its' wordmark was relatively simple. The point is with athens due to panorama, overall awesome look and a great logo, it didn't really rely on the wordmark in the same way, sydney, beijing, london and rio did. Still I would have personally preferred a slightly more unique wordmark for athens and vancouver (my favourite Look overall), but I agree and concede that there was alot going in terms each of those looks so the simpler wordmark was better suited.
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