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fatixxx

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Posts posted by fatixxx

  1. On 4/22/2022 at 2:03 AM, stryker said:

    The Sarajevo inclusion makes no sense when you have existing sliding tracks in France, Switzerland, and even the soon-to-be rebuilt one in Cortina that could handle sliding events for a prospective Spanish WOGs. My guess is they probably already when to the aforementioned countries and were told no.

    stryker, your sentence inspired me and  i have looked to those gliding tracks in FRA and SWI..

    but meanwhile here a WOG-bobsleigh-list on wikipedia

    >> List of bobsleigh, luge, and skeleton tracks - Wikipedia (most updated list ARTIFICIAL TRACKS in 3 categories; CURRENT PLANNED FORMER)

    >> List of Olympic venues in bobsleigh - Wikipedia (2022 Yanqing & 2026 Cortinq not included in the list)

    >> List of natural luge tracks - Wikipedia (dient know that turkiye has a natural luge track in SARIKAMIŞ (district-town - in kars province)

    >> CLICK ON THE IMAGE TO ENLARGE // the most updated list

    si7aLKF.png

     

    from the wikipedia-list above we can see that the barcelona 2030 bid has 8 options for an eventual gliding-track venue-cluster in the alpes

    3-4 in france // 2 in italy // 1 in switserland // 1 in austria .. (if not 1-2 in the germany alps)

    BUT if i am not wrong in my research NONE of these options have the CLOSEST-DISTANCE of the ski-jump & gliding facilities together

    the only city/mountain-region that has this option is SARAJEVO with her TREBEVİÇ-IGMAN cluster.. (maybe igls-innsbruck in austria is the 2nd closest ootion)

    now we begin to understand why the COE / spanish olympic committee has opted for sarajevo, because of this close-distance criteria

    it is a STRONG SUSPICION if not OBVIOUS that the COE has made their research for their bid-story/campain

    in france italy switserland they have to arrange things with multiple townships/municipalities/entities whereas in sarajevo with 1 municipality (i could be wrong)

    why did the french and swiss gave negative answer or said no to the spaniards.. what were their motives not to cooperate with an eventual barcelona 2030 bid

    there are about 10 bobsleigh/lugh tracks spread-out in the alpes.. so centered at the same time.. the ioc could come with creative solutions for virgin wog-bids

    this issue makes a LAME DUCK for the spanish-efforts to experience another mountain range in europe, namely the pyrenees.. 

     

    LxGYVGh.png

     

     

  2.  

    The Presidential Cycling Tour of Turkey is a professional road bicycle racing stage race held annually since 1963.

    In 2005 the race became part of the UCI Europe Tour, rated as a 2.2 event, before being upgraded to 2.1 in 2008  and then to 2.HC for the 2010 edition.

    The race became part of the UCI World Tour in 2017, and was relegated to the newly formed UCI ProSeries in 2020.

    source >> Presidential Cycling Tour of Turkey - Wikipedia

     

     

     

     

    each year the tour does a shuffle between the geographical regions in turkiye..

    the 56th edition started in cappadocia for example.. i found a sheet/poster with the branding on it..

    this years 57th tour began on 11th april and finished today 17th april

    EuWhmP9WgAETLwS?format=jpg&name=medium

  3. 57th presidential cycling tour of turkiye 2022

    website >> Tour of Turkey (tourofturkiye.org.tr) / english page / tour stages

     

    D1x1j4R.png

    source-1 >> 2022 Presidential Tour of Turkey - Wikipedia

    The 2022 Presidential Tour of Turkey is a road cycling stage race taking place between 10 and 17 April 2022 in Turkey. It is the 57th edition of the Presidential Tour of Turkey.

     

    source-2 >> UCI ProSeries - Wikipedia

    The UCI ProSeries is the second tier men's elite road cycling tour. It was inaugurated in 2020. The series is placed below the UCI World Tour, but above the various regional UCI Continental Circuits.

     

  4. Here i have made 2 compositions

    to understand an eventual reconstruction + revamp to todays needs of the track

     

    1// two screenshots from the youtube video >> sliding-maquette & worx taken from above on the trebeviç mount/hill

    2// two screenshots from google earth >> the over-bushed gliding track with and without the lines i drew

    (>> click on the images to enlarge)

    DCblX94.png

     

    akG1D79.jpg

  5. 5 minutes ago, baron-pierreIV said:

    No; the 24 teams for the Worlds, I think, have already been decided -- becuz they did the big draw.  The VNL -- which I agree, is a good 2nd tournament -- is good for the athletes because of the cash prizes for them.  And the World Champs is good for the overall ranking, but except for the French women's team (a very weak one), I think all the 11 other teams for Paris will have to battle it out again starting in 2023 -- and then they will have the Continental tournaments to allocate for universal representation.  

    excuse me.. i wrote short in my words.. i totally agree what u say..

    but in the overall istanbul 2036 thread here i did research and shared all the organisations that are/were organised in istanbul (and a few in onther cities in the country).. i mentioned actually that turkey had not much organised world championships: it would be the crown to organise the world volleyball championships for women in turkiye.. we only have organised the basket world champs.. world-volleyball-football-athletics-swimming-champs are in the row.. turkiye has organised a lot european-champs and indoors.. but to stay up to date in organisng world-champs we have a long way to go.. 

    the question on my side is why the TVF turkish volleyball federation chooses ankara instead of istanbul for the VNL for example.. the only answer i can come up with is the fact that all sports federations are settled in ankara.. only 2 federatiıns have their central-office in istanbul; TFF turkish football federation & TMSF turkish motor sports federation as the F1-pist is on the asian side of the city..

    i dont know if you remember the 2020 istanbul plan.. but there were 4 main clusters AND 1 stand-venue.. this is a unique volleyball-venue of the fenerbahçe spots club.. womens volleyball is a true succes and is the fastest growing sport in the city.. the turkish women volleyball clubs won maybe more than 100 throphy's in all world-matches.. at the FIVB world list the turkish teams are respectively, womens 4th place and mens 15th place

    for example: FIVB Volleyball Women's Club World Championship - Wikipedia >> 3 womens-sport-clubs in the top 10

     

    see map at this link >> Jadaliyya - Activists Submitted Report Against Olympics in Istanbul

    this site used my picture here from GB and whereby i draw the 4 clusters and number 8 on this plan-map is about this 1 stand venue .. we will be delighted if we can organize a world womens champs in istanbul.. 

    1 stand venue = splendid venue >> Ülker Sports and Event Hall - Wikipedia

    arena14.jpg.aspx?width=1920&height=1080&

     

  6. On 4/14/2022 at 8:01 AM, baron-pierreIV said:

    The 2026 bid of Stockholm-Falun and Sigulda, Latvia failed.  An Iberian-Sarajevo bid isnt going to pass muster.  

    Which means it's down to Sapporo and SLC as the back-up.  

    miles if we look to the swedish map: there are 2 organisational options on swedish soil:

    ÄRE >> ÖSTERSUND = +/- 95 km (too much northwards)

    FALUN >> STOCKHOLM  = +/- 215 km (about the same distance between milano-cortina)

    in falun they have build the nordic combined venue with the skijump-facility.. the only problem is the gliding-venue.. and the closest option is LİLLEHAMMER in Norway.. i dont understand why the swedes choose for the sigulda/latvia option that lies more far away then lillehammer just on the other side of their border..

    ----

    when ukraine had an eventual winter bid as the city of LVİV / LEMBERG in the epicenter.. they optioned also sigulda/latvia gliding-center in their plan.. i suppose that the biggest obstacle will be the GLİDİNG-FACİLİTY for EACH winter olympics to come.. İf the ioc ignores as each applicant-candidate wşth this "gliding in another country plan" than NONE of the bids will be succesfull.. they will be dead born each time.. THUS the ioc pushes national olympic committees to build those giding-venues.. in this case, the new talking-process to choose the next olympic city doesnt to make less investments to persue low-cost-games doesnt make sense.. the gliding center in SİGULDA- LATVİA is a PEARL to use and integrate in different olympic-bids.. 

    what do you think? is this a correct correlation OR what is the BİG MOTİON of the ioc for NOT TO OPT for a facility out of the country borders? thanx in advance miles..

  7.  

    On 4/12/2022 at 2:01 AM, baron-pierreIV said:

    Neither Sweden nor Denmark each by itself can host a 21st century SOG.  They've gotten so large.  A Stockholm-Malmo-Copenhagen tandem might work.  At least 3 villages housing est 3,500 bodies each wouldn't be a shock to the housing stock of each city when the Games are over.  Opening in Stockholm, Closing in Kobenhaven. 

     

    an eventual copenhagen/malmö games would actually be named as öresund 2036

    the öresund-bridge connects those 2 cities in just a flyover over 14 km connected with freeway and train

    ÖRESUND 2036

    opening ceremony in copenhagen

    closing ceremony in malmö

    with back-up of Göteborg

    (in stead of stockholm could rescue something)

     

    oresundsbron-logo.svg

    website: https://www.oresundsbron.com/

  8. On 4/14/2022 at 8:04 AM, baron-pierreIV said:

    Well, this year though, that will quickly be forgotten by the Women's World Championships which will start in late September and be split between the Netherlands and Poland.  The Championships will be a bigger tournament with 24 nations.  I think VNL only has 12 or 16.  

    miles, you are correct.. but in turkiye they are happy because we have another womens-volleyball arganisation in row.. the VNL excists 4 years and is a totally new concept.. the crown for this will be a world volley championship (as you mentioned)

    • Like 1
  9.  

    link main thread >> Pyrenees-Barcelona-Zaragoza 2030 - Page 5 - 2030 Olympic Winter Games Bids - GamesBids.com Forums

    this thread is evoluated from the main-thread >> PYRENEES-BARCELONA-ZARAGOZA 2030 winter olympic bid from the spanish olympic committee / COE.. meanwhile this main-thread goes forward, the discussions brings/brought us to an inevitable issue, namely; the nordic & sliding events  (in other words) the ski-jump & sliding facilities/venues.. these 2 issues are forming a bottleneck in this desired spanish-winter-bid.. 

    SOURCE >> Claim Barcelona hosting 2030 Winter Olympics could net region €1 billion (insidethegames.biz) critical key-sentences are saying; 

    .. "Bobsleigh has no tradition in Catalonia," .. Instead  events could be held in Tignes or Courchevel, both centres used in the Winter Olympic Games when they were staged in Albertville 1992.. Many believe this would offer an historical link between the Summer and Winter hosts of 1992.. The possibility of holding the sliding events at the bob run at Trebevic in Sarajevo 1984 would provide a more emotional link" ..

    the emotional link with sarajevo comes from the time when the spaniard samaranch-senior was president of the ioc, and its in his presidency he declared sarajevo as wog-host in 1984.. NOW it is samaranch-junior who is in charge/head of the spanish olympic committee/COE whos coaching nowadays the Barcelona-Pyrenees-2030 bid.. FEED enough for the needed narrative and connecting symbolism in this spanish-wog-story

    the first sentence in the article says as follow >> "It would allow Barcelona to follow in the footsteps of Beijing as a Summer and Winter host city.."  im personally in favor an apart concept/reception of an eventual spanish wog-bid that ive also mentioned in the main-thread.. i think that barcelona doesnt need the double olympic ettiquette as beijing did.. it could be a chance to have a 2nd olympic city on spanish-soil.. ZARAGOZA 2030 can be in the epicenter of the games whereby the needed venues for ice sports can be used in barcelona.. but the title of the bid louds as BARCELONA-PYRENEES 2030 as the epicenter and zaragoza as a secundary-city in this bid. But lets have a brain-storm on the sarajevo issue:

    the COE has to tell on a very CLEAR & SIMPLE manner the idea/romantism for an eventual SARAJEVO-CLUSTER.. we understand that spain doesnt have no bobsleigh tradition and neither do countries have the obligation to participate in every olympic-sport-branch.. but they can begin somewhere and can start a spanish-bobsleigh-program for generations to come.. there is no ski-jump facility in spain, at this link we have a worldlist of these venues >> List of ski jumping hills - Wikipedia

    this would mean that an eventual barcelona-2030 wog bid can use the ski-jump facility at the MALO-POLJE plateau in IGMAN mountain in Sarajevo.. in the thread-link beneath i did a little-amateur research.. and there are already made RECONSTRUCTION PLANS.. (click link below) 

     

     

    NOTE: why do they not build these 2 jump-&-gliding-facilities in their own country to make a start for new spanish-generations to come and for whole the hispano-speaking-world.. why invest in reconstruction/refurbishing those 2 facilities elswhere when you can create a venues legacy on own soil.. thats the question in my mind.. doesnt spain has the money to built those?! >> Pyrenees-Barcelona-Zaragoza 2030 - Page 4 - 2030 Olympic Winter Games Bids - GamesBids.com Forums

     

    here we have an article about the COST of an eventual demolition & redevelopment of the 1956 cortina d'ampezzo GLIDING-TRACK: "Plans for the track were presented at a press conference in Venice with officials confirming that the price of demolition and redevelopment would be €61 million (£51 million/$69 million)" .. this will be about the same price to DEMOLISH & REBUILD the gliding-track in TREBEVICE-sarajevo.. it is certainly a target-cost-price..

    SOURCE: Plans presented for renovation of Milan Cortina 2026 sliding track (insidethegames.biz)

     

    PHOTO: momentum of the sarajevo-track at the 1984-WOG..

    Yjly81Q.jpg

     

    WE HAVE TO NOTICE A LITTLE DETAIL ABOUT: 

    - does the COE want to surpass/exceed the GRANADA 2015 WINTER UNIVERSIADE example.. could it be called succes that at those 2015 winter universiade the ski-jumping & nordic-combined leg was organised on slovakian soil in STRBSKE PLESO .. SOURCE >> 2015 Winter Universiade - Wikipedia

    - important question would be >>  winter universiade worked in 2015 on smaller scale.. would it be a succes on larger scale?! the COE goes for this story/narrative?!

    2030 - 1984 = 46 years of samaranch-sarajevo legacy

    2034 - 1984 = 50 years of sarajevo-again (with exellent flora/snow)

    - meanwhike SARAJEVO has build a lot of better hotels and already-succesfully organised the WINTER EYOF 2019 

    - eyof-source-1 >> 2019 European Youth Olympic Winter Festival - Wikipedia

    eyof-source-2 >> EYOF 2019 Sarajevo and East Sarajevo - Olympic Committee of Bosnia and Herzegovina (okbih.ba) // with excellent photos

     

    skijanje_trcanje.jpg

     

     

  10. turkish capital - ankara - will be in the epicenter of the thrilling final round of the WOMENS VNL 2022 from 31/05 till 03/07.. this is the 4th VNL - VOLLEYBALL NATIONS LEAGUE .. (annual international volleyball tournament for both men and women).. this decision is very fresh/recent 11/04.. the most prestige organisation in the volleyball world.. wowwww..

    source-1: 2022 FIVB Volleyball Women's Nations League - Wikipedia

    source-2: Women's 2022 VNL Finals headed to Ankara | volleyballworld.com

    source-3: Ankara Arena - Wikipedia

    source-4: ankara arena | yazgandesign

     

    1920px-Ankara_asv2021-10_img20_Ankara_Ar

  11. 1 hour ago, SportLightning said:

    That would be difficult with Andorra for freestyle skiing.

    sportlithing.. please stop with re-producing (with each time 1) sentence of previous comments of other users.. you do this in every thread.. you dont read with counsciousness whats written and are reproducing only sentences to have written something.. STOP with that because you are causing a miscommunication..

    i said AS EXAMPLE freestyle in ANDORRA.. it is an example.. >> but your re-produced sentence of mine creates an atmosphere as there IS/HAS been made a decission by the COE (Committee Olympic of Espana).. THATS NOT TRUE

    İT İS ONLY AN EXAMPLE.. DONT PRODUCE IN A DRY WAY SENTENCES OF OTHER USERS.. think twice what there is written.. please !!

    BTW why would it be difficult for andorra to organise freestyle skiing? do you have scientific information on this issue that we dont have.. on wich criteria DO YOU THİNK that it would be difficult..  give some MORE sentences of your own thinking!

    • Like 1
  12. 20 hours ago, yoshi said:

    I mean at this point, are Aragon just gonna dump Catalonia and go it alone - if this bid has any future at all? Between Zaragoza, Jaca, Andorra, and whatever else is in Aragon (tbh I don't know any other cities there) is there enough for all the indoor sports that Barcelona would've had?

    it is better to name it as the "Zaragoza 2030" bid, with inclusion of Huesca and Jaca (all in Aragon region/province)

    a branching in Andorra (for freestyle for exampke) would spook whole the bid

    it can be names also the ARAGON 2030 bid but prefered a city name rather then region name (aka pyeongchang 2018)

    but its vice versa COE wishes that aragon supports the catalonian bid instead of Barcelona CAN support a zaragoza bid

    the spaniards can have a 2ND olympic city in history, Barcelona doesnt need a 2nd olympic ettiquette

    the Samaranch-Junior COE wants to create a SARAJEVO-LEGACY-ROMANTISM that could cost respectively a lot of mony and organisational problems, but they want to surpass/exceed the GRANADA 2015 WINTER UNIVERSIADE example.. could it be called succes that at those 2015 winter universiade the ski-jumping & nordic-combined leg was organised on slovakian soil in STRBSKE PLESO >> 2015 Winter Universiade - Wikipedia

    ° this worked in 2015 on smaller scale.. would it be a succes on larger scale..

    ° the gliding-center in TREBEVICE-SARAJEVO awaits a decent reconstruction and/or refurbishing

    ° the ski-jump facility at MALO POLJE-IGMAN mountain awaits the same costs to make viable/feasable

    ° meanwhike SARAJEVO has build a lot of better hotels and already-succesfully organised the WINTER EYOF 2019

    ° 2030-1984=46 years of samaranch-sarajevo legacy > 2034-1984=50 years sarajevo-again (with exellent flora/snow)

    >> is this project doable achievable AND would this bring a unique refreshment in olympic hisyory? COE goes for this?!

     

    i found here a black/white video about the preparations for the ski-jumping facilty build with man-power back then - for about 40 seconds beginning from minute 5:00 + a view of todays malo polje ski jump towers..

     

    1200px-Igman_%E2%80%93_Olimpijske_skakao

    source: Malo Polje, Sarajevo  »  Ski Jumping Hill Archive  »  skisprungschanzen.com

     

    skakaonice_igman_5.jpg

    source: Skakaonice na Igmanu (sa-c.net)  //  RECONSTRUCTION PLANS

  13. 19 hours ago, stryker said:

    Spain is a summer sports country and they have severe public support issues at a time when their economy is in the toilet and public opinion is against excessive spending for Olympic venues that usually become white elephants. In terms of building an existing winter sports culture, it's an admirable goal, but Spain has so little winter sports history. They had no medals until a two bronzes in 2018 and a silver in Beijing. Spain has never had a ski jumper or a speed skater qualify as far as I know so building an expensive ski jump and speed skating oval at a taxpayer's expense isn't smart business. They would not see enough use to justify the investment (it's simple business).

    I laughed out loud at the idea of the Chinese building a sliding track in the Pyrenees ..

    The oval in Milan has been discussed at length and I suggest you revisit some of the posts on it so you get the full story.

    Barcelona has to be included. It has the transport infrastructure plus the much needed indoor ice arenas

    but does anyone really think JAS Jr. who's clearly behind the torpedoing of Madrid's SOGs prospects really going to allow Zaragoza over his late daddy's hometown to be the center of a Spanish WOGs bid? No chance. It's Barcelona or bust.

     

    best stryker, i admire your fluent text/comment you wrote.. and im aware of the fact that youve wrote the reallity.. in my view in a more pro-negative point of view whereby im writing more in a pro-active way.. this way of active-debate will certainly level-up things..

    you say thesis, i say anti-thesis (or vice versa) and this forms syn-thesis.. this is/would be the actual outcome of a debate culture, so we create new ideas/thinkings/concepts/perceptions that will/can give fresh impulses towards everybody who are reading this worlds first-most gamesbids forum on earth.. the only platform with talented feedback for many people who are working to get the games around the world..

     

    BUT: there are points whereby i do not aggree with (with all the missing knowledge that ive have build up in the last 10-15 years, because i didnt follow closly all the issues as you mentioned) 

    - i believe in positive energy/writing and dont like in person the more pessimistic words like: the spanish economy is in the toilet.. i suppose it isnt worse then the economy of greece.. 

    - that "usually-become-white-elephant-thing" is another thing i dont agree with, it is so a repetitive/cheap sentence thats used very frequently (even if im wrong - with no harming towards your qualitative text) actually to focus on this, ski-jumping hills dont become elephants, they are used in their own potential (per country)

     

    - let me give you a contrast example for your next sentence and the follow-up:

    "Spain has so little winter sports history, .." >> türkiye has ALMOST NONE winter sports history (but the only muslim country with participation in a wider range of winter-sports-branches at 17 or 19 attendances) + türkiye has yet to win a medal at a wog & thus has NONE medals whereas spain has gained 5 in total.. türkiye had for the first time 1 ski-jumper in 2018 and 1 speed-skater in 2022.. but respectively not qualyfied for further finals.. but those 2 men were turkish heros and became wog-idols in their country and a lot of young people felt the passion when they were on tv and the next generation boy/girl began to jumping and skating.. türkiye build its ski-jump facility in 2011 for the winter EYOF and revamped it in 2017 for the winter UNİVERSİAD..

    >> do you really think that new generations dont want to jump/skate in spain ? is there a law or a reglementation that its forbidden for spain to built ski-jump facility, which is more less expensive than an oval ? is it forbidden for the spaniards to create a chance to begin with something even if they started wrong ? the COE can built these towards a a 2nd winter-universiad in the near future before a wog.. they have organised a winter universiad in granada 2015 with co-hosting of slovakia (for the same problem of) for the nordic and ski-jump.. it worked with slovakia for an universiad-scale .. they maybe want to try again the same formula.. but olympics are bigger/larger in scale then a universiad.. this formula wont work twice (for many)

    source: 2015 Winter Universiade - Wikipedia

    >> "I laughed out loud at the idea of the Chinese building a sliding track in the Pyrenees" : thanx for your honest sentence, i will take a step back about the chinese example, btw spain is not uganda nor sri lanka (the most remote example) .. BUT, i suppose you understood what i ment. the COE can go to international open tender en choose the cheapest consorsium to built the jump, gliding facilities and oval .. that would be also simple buisness as you mentioned.. if they go to erdoğan and ask for building those, than a turkish firm will do for the cheapest price as they did with the building of the olympic stafium in dakar/senegal..

    >> about the oval in milan/val di fiemme.. i promise i will make time to read those posts/discussions.. but, striker you know, at the official milano-cortina 2026 website it says that they going to build that/new oval..

    >> if barcelona has to be included as you say.. okay, but its better not to put barcelona in the center.. Barcelona doesnt need the bi-games etiquette as beijing 22.. with zaragoza they can have a 2nd official olympic-city in history.. they have to get rid of the arrogance and pride of the samaranch-legacy-thing İTS about the olympic legace that has to be the essential core of their bid, and not the ode to past away ioc people.. 

    >> you say 'barcelona or büst".. <==> .. i say "no barcelona or nothing" .. no barcelona in the meaning of the olympic ettiquette.. if they need so much the needed venues in barca, okay lets use them.. but it can be succesfull if zaragoza is in the epicenter of the 2039/2034 wog.. besides zaragoza has also the same freeway infrastructure as barcelona, but the metropoles location is on a bad angle.. the distince between barca & jaca is more than 300 km IF BARCA is in the epicenter of the games..

    >> List of ski jumping hills - Wikipedia in the world .. <==> .. the USUALLY white elephants in the world ??

    1 in bosnia, bulgaria, turkey, estonia, kazhakstan, romania, slovakia, china - 2 in france, south-korea - 3 in czechia, japan, russia, switserlan,  - 4 in sweden, - 5 in canada, finland, - 6 in poland - 7 in norway, slovenia, - 8 in italy - 9 in usa - 10 in austria - 14 in germany <==> why would spain not be in the list with 1 jumping-hill for new generations ?

     

    cDqO2pp.png

     

    next-generation-girls are training at the ejder-tepe ski-jumping-facility.. 

    if türkiye can realise this with none wog-medal.. why spain cant realize it with better wog results ?

     

     

  14. B - let's have a look to MİLANO 2026

    pocket-facilities spread over the southern flank of dolomites

    1// look to the gliding-track facility of cortina village >> (old track woven within the city-plan)

    source >> Plans presented for renovation of Milan Cortina 2026 sliding track (insidethegames.biz)

    - the cost-price for renovation is €65 million euros 

    - does this give an idea for the renovation/reconstruction cost-price for the sarajevo-track

    - why spending so much mony elsewhere when you could build it on spanish-soil

    2// look to the ski-jumping facilities of predazzo village >> (next to a stream. does it look professional?)

    - whats the cost-price to build a decent ski-jumping-facility?

    - isnt it doable for the spaniards - spanish government - aragon/zaragoza region ??

    - the italians did it TWİCE with no high proffessionalism.. why cant spain do it ONCE !!

    l2aKu5i.png

    DNbvp36.png

     

  15. A - let's have a look to TORİNO 2006

    pocket-facilities spread over the eastern flank of maritime-alpes

    1// look to the gliding-track facility of cesana village >> (it doesnt look professional, in de middle of simple greenery)

    2// look to the ski-jumping facilities of pragelato village >> (just at the bank of a stream. does it look professional?)

    9ML5FQS.png

    zJadvWO.png

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