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Sir Rols

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Everything posted by Sir Rols

  1. Despite my disinterest in Eurovision, I guess I’m gonna have to have me a look and give you an upvote
  2. Interestingly, Barcelona-Zaragoza polled at 73 per cent support, which is encouraging for their upcoming referendum. The downside is that was in January, before the bid started imploding internally. Vancouver is pretty murky: “According to a new survey by Leger, 34 per cent of respondents across the Canadian province from December 17 to 19 said they support a possible bid to host the 2030 Games while 35 per cent oppose the project and the remaining 31 per cent are neutral. The new results are similar to those of a poll taken by Research Co. in October that revealed a similar split of 43 per cent in favor of a bid with 45 per cent against and 12 per cent undecided. That had marked a steep decline from a poll taken last year before the COVID-19 pandemic hit.: Source: GamesBids Again interestingly, Vancouver also headed off a referendum on the technicality that it is an indigenous-led bid, and such indigenous matters can’t be put to referendum.
  3. Except both Milano-Cortina and Brisbane has significantly better and more credible poll results than Sapporo. Milano, at 85 per cent by the IOC’s independent survey, likely would have passed a referendum with ease. Brisbane also sat comfortably at 65 per cent in the best info I found. Again, far more comfortable than the 52 per cent of Sapporo’s most credible poll.
  4. I’m actually trying to search those out now. Milano-Cortina had support of 85 per cent nationwide and 87 per cent in Milan itself according to the IOC’s poll. We also have the methodologies for that poll: The nationwide poll, conducted by French company, Publicis Media, between February 7 and 19, asked 2,515 people across Italy and 613 in Milan whether they were in "favour of Milan/Cortina hosting the Olympic Winter Games in 2026". Source: InsideTheGames Surprisingly, Brisbane is proving harder to track down. The best my hunt can find is 65 per cent support Statewide in Queensland according to a poll by the Courier Mail newspaper in May 2021, up from the mid 50s in March that year. Source: Courier Mail. Can’t find any IOC poll results. AustFan may have firmer figures as the authority on the minutiae of Brisbane’s bid. Whatever, yes, they’re chalk and cheese with the Sapporo poll(s). No metrics released, but we have: 52 per cent in a postal poll by the Govt (likely the most reliable, but he Govt didn’t like it and said it skewed too old; 57 per cent in an internet poll (which are inherently unreliable); and 67 per cent by asking people in front of a cinema complex (honestly, you can’t make this stuff up) Interestingly, the Sapporo results are very similar to what Stockholm-Are got before the IOC rejected it. i agree, mid 60s is really what I’d start regarding as comfortable. I really think the onus is going to be on the IOC to commission their own independent poll.
  5. I think it’s already been, heatedly, thrashed out in depth in the Sapporo news thread you’ve posted in. I think it’s just opening up another can of worms to start another one. It’ll likely anyway be absolutely flooded with the views of one particular poster, and just go the way of other threads where attempts to rationally and critically discuss the pros and cons of the “New Norm” get shouted down. Pity that that poster has caused the board to come to this.
  6. Lol! I can respect that. At least you’re owning it’s probably not right, but you’ll take it if it gets you what you wish. That’s honest and hurrah for you. personally, I think the IOC is going to Ned to come in and commission their own independent survey of support. As they always used to do rather than rely on the various biding teams’ surveys.
  7. That’s not an excellent summary, that’s just a statement of what happened. It’s what we have been discussing here for the past five pages, with many of us “suggesting” that it was a premature and risky move. Also, Rob doesn’t “suggest” that this was sufficient, he’s saying the ruling part “suggested” it was sufficient. Meanwhile, in Sapporo, some people today are “suggesting” otherwise:
  8. How convenient that you fail to acknowledge that that particular post was an ironic commentary on these particular gems: Which you’ve also since followed up with: and Honestly, it hurts the eyes to look at them. How very hypocritical of you to then use my reply as the basis for your latest character assasination. Absolutely breathtakingly hypocritical. That was more a link to and comment on your usual modus operandi, stemming back to Beijing, when you took exception to my stance on those games and launched your first jihad against me. If you’re gonna play with fire… In the meantime, a lot of posters here don’t buy your stance on it, and I can see why.
  9. Honestly, are you not capable of debating calmly in good faith? Do you really need to amp up to personal attacks and character assassinations - in big bold 40 point jpegs so you can’t easily be quoted - because we just don’t accept your premise? Can you not wrap your head around nuance? Is it really we either agree with you totally or we’re the enemy of the Olympics? You talk about tantrums, but you’ve demonstrated a text book example of how tantrums are conducted on Internet forums. Neither I nor Quaker or others have said we don’t think Sapporo deserves the games. What we have argued is that Sapporo, or any bid, should not be moving forward unless they can demonstrate comfortable public approval beyond a survey that shows only the most barest of majority support. It should go without saying that it’s a risky proposition to go forward and host a games when you don’t have a comfortably large majority of the local populace backing it. Yes, a referendum could sink a bid. That’s fair enough. But a referendum could also approve it, and that would shut up all naysayers for it in their tracks and secure those games from such risk. For the record, I don’t have any skin in the 2030 race. I really don’t care who wins. If pushed, I might ever so slightly prefer Sapporo over SLC, but that’s like saying if pushed I might say I prefer raspberry over strawberry jam - they’re both okay, I’d gladly accept either. Ditto Vancouver. Even Barcelona-Zaragoza would be okay if it was viable (which doesn’t appear so). But what I do want of any of them is a host that can demonstrate secure, stable public support to reduce any risks to its successful completion.
  10. I would tend to agree with you, on the assumption the hypothetical bid had already demonstrated a comfortable level of support. My problem with Sapporo is that’s what support’s been demonstrated is far from comfortable - a single poll that found support at just over 50 per cent. That’s the type of number that would have been disastrous in the old bid days and, of course, raises real fears that it would not withstand a referendum. In which case I see the decision to avoid a referendum as sweeping a potential problem under the carpet in the name of expediency. “Doing a Denver” has been mentioned, and while I don’t think that would be inevitable, it is sure a possibility. I’d be more comfortable if support was at least up above the mid 60s, or even if the IOC themselves did one of their own independent surveys.
  11. They can do what they want, and I can criticise them for taking the unethical way out. I’m not the one coming in here, spamming the same posts over and over, shouting in bold caps and accusing multiple people of being trolls because they don’t approve of your viewpoint.
  12. However the bid’s funded, if they win their bid, it’s basically 100 per cent inevitable that’s government funds are going to be needed to stage the games. Thus, the populace needs to be consulted. It’s not like the games are an essential need for any city. They are a luxury. If you’ve got the means and desire for them, sure, have fun! But they’re not a basic human requirement.
  13. And in big bold type because you seem to think it adds credence to posts: Bids that aren’t confident of winning a referendum have no business bidding. It should be the basic bedrock of a bid, confidence in public support. What makes you think it’s good to progress a bid where you don’t trust in public support? And, yes, we know of all those failed bids. Many of us followed and commented on them as they happened. They did not have public support - ergo, it was god and appropriate they did not proceed. It’s incredibly arrogant of you to treat us all as idiots.
  14. Sigh! Knock yourself out trying to justify why civic rights should take a back seat to the NEED to keep sport events bid afloat. What you’re defending is downright indefensible… sunshine. But what else can one expect from someone who’d lecture you for daring to judge the morality of a genocidal dictatorship staging the games.
  15. Lol! Maybe you have to experience it, but it is pretty special. And, as has been attested many times, traffic is usually less during a games, and you’re not gonna noticed much noise in prep times/games time unless you’re living next door to a venue. But, hey, I can appreciate and sympathise if anybody thinks their city/country has other priorities than hosting the games.
  16. Why don’t you look at WHY referendums sunk the bids? Instead of blaming democracy and citizens concerns, why don’t you put the blame on the reasons those referendums failed? It’s totally bizarre that for the sake of a sports event, you think civic rights should be dispensed with as an inconvenience.
  17. And you seem to think that’s a bad thing. Something that must be bypassed to get what you want.
  18. Don’t be so sure the US, UK and French public would be so keen to pass a referendum these days either. If a democratic citizenry aren’t’ keen on hosting the Olympics, who are you to tell them that they’re being selfish by denying you nice background scenery for your beloved event? It’s not a problem with the public, or with democracy. It’s a problem with the IOC. They are the ones beholden with staging an event that cities would WANT to host. And I’m certainly one who thinks there’s a lot for cities to gain in hosting the Olympics and that much of the criticism of the games is overblown and exaggerated. The IOC has a decent product to sell, but they’re just so f*cked at doing so. And to give them credit, they are making moves to address some of the major criticisms of the games - let’s hope that after Paris, LA and Brisbane they do have a point to push that the games can be done cheaply, responsibly and sustainably. Otherwise, yes, we will be left with little more than China and Russia wanting to stage them, and I’d fear for the long term future of the games in that scenario.
  19. And, you know what? @Australian Kiwiis spot on. If you want to be the board’s resident IOC apologist, or defender of dodgy business ethics, that’s your call. But then you have to expect to be called out for it, by name.
  20. That’s just tough cookies. If a city, or the IOC, is so scared that they’d lose a referendum if they went to the citizenry, then that city has no business bidding. Indeed, it’s reprehensible if they do. You can’t just throw accountability out the window because it’s inconvenient. The IOC, and potential hosts, should be convincing people to want the Olympics. Not riding roughshod over citizens’ concerns in a bid to dodge contrary opinion.
  21. May I just remind certain posters that repeated spamming of the same post is against forum rules and constitutes trolling
  22. Oooookay… so, in other words, private surveys are good, public votes are bad. Hmmmmm…. Democracy sucks, eh?
  23. It’s fairly common for positions on an OCOG to chop and change over the course of its life. As Torchbearer pointed out, SOCOG went through various changes of government at the State and Federal level. Probably the most significant leadership change this brought with SOCOG was when the incoming Labor State Govt appointed Michael Knight as Olympics Minister and put him in charge of SOCOG - it basically meant he had the political clout and the formal SOCOG position to cut through all the hurdles needed to successfully deliver the 2000 games. In terms of Brissie, again as Torchbearer pointed out, the 50-50 State-Federal split made this move inevitable. The Courier Mail’s just trying to beat up a poke at Anna rather than it being any real issue. Albo’s likely to appoint the new sports minister Anika Wells to take Colbeck’s spot - the bonus is she’s also from a Brisbane electorate. Gonna be interesting to see who replaces Ted O’Brien, the Sunshine Coast LNP MP who was also dumped. Will Albo appoint another QLD Labor MP, or might they appoint one of the Greens’ new Brisbane MPs?
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