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Everything posted by stryker

  1. I saw today where Calgary was forced to give up the 2021 Luge Championships to Whistler because WinSport could not guarantee the needed upgrades which probably would've gone through if the bid at least survived a referendum. One of my colleagues who's from the Calgary area predicts the WinSport sliding track will be demolished within the next two years with the Whistler track becoming Canada's main track for training and international events Given how specialized the sliding events are, does it even make sense for a country to have more than one sliding track?
  2. I think it depends. I do think you could possibly see country-wide bids for the WOGs from smaller countries such as Switzerland and Austria or farming out the more sport-specific venues like Stockholm has done with the sliding events and what Calgary was prepared to do by holding ski jumping in Whistler. I posted a while back that if the IOC ever really wanted to go to Africa for a SOGs the only way it would work budget wise and venue wise would be for a country-wide bid from along the likes of South Africa or Morocco. All that said, if a compact bid presents itself as economically viable (or a dictatorship decides to splurge on the Olympics) then I think the IOC would choose those options over a regional bid. It's the main reason I see Salt Lake City as a very heavy favorite to host the WOGs in 2030.
  3. I realize the circumstances between the events that led to Denver's withdrawal do not entirely apply to Stockholm. My point is what if Stockholm is awarded the WOGs and the No Olympics crowd rears their heads again with the same arguments they have used before (mostly focusing on the budget) but take it a step further and start targeting some of these newly elected officials for going along with the bid in the first place. Public support drops then those officials are faced with a choice, continue with a project that grows unpopular with the voters or tell the IOC no thank and give it up. Sure it'd be a stain between Sweden and the IOC but elections have shown that politicians that push forward projects that are not popular with the public at large have recently been pounded at the ballot box, but as I said before, this is all hypothetical.
  4. https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1079909/anoc-world-beach-games-to-be-relocated-from-san-diego San Diego relinquishes hosting rights after they couldn't come up the funds for the event, despite having significantly reduced the size of the games. Looks like they will go back to Asia, probably to somewhere in China, maybe Dubai. I'd wager it will be in China. They will have no problem overspending and putting on a show. Same for Dubai.
  5. Good points but in terms of the reforms that have been put into place (Agenda 2020 or the New Norm) is there has yet to be an Olympics that successfully stays within its budget using the aforementioned reforms and until that happens those No Olympics groups are going to continue to keep traction. So it's really a catch-22. The IOC says they've reformed but there needs to be an actual Olympics that has taken place that shows this. Los Angeles appears to fit this the best with Paris a close second. If the IOC selects Stockholm for 2026 then I think they have a good foundation in place. I'd add Pyeongchang to the list over reckless over spending as well (the sliding track has been mothballed, three ice arenas and the alpine course face demolition by the end of the year if no one comes forward to foot the bill for running them). Tokyo's budget has ballooned and while they've made some cost cutting moves they hav not gone far enough and I attribute this to the influence that respective sporting federations still hold (remember when the UCI demanded Rio demolish the newly built Barre Velodrome that had just been built for the Pan Ams?) The UCI was in an uproar when Tokyo changed to the new velodrome outside of Tokyo rather than build a completely new one yet Tokyo bucked to the demands of FIVB when they decided to go ahead and build the Ariake Arena when the Yokohama Arena would have done just fine. So in addition to the IOC's reforms, a host city really needs to come forward and flat out tell the respective sports federations NO when it comes to building expensive venues that do not have a defined purpose after the Olympics. Case in point and this is purely hypothetical, Los Angeles only has one permanent venue to build, the slalom canoe course. I don't know how much use the course would get post-Olympics so could the organizing committee tell the ICF no and insist on using an existing whitewater course already built in the U.S.
  6. Christophe Dubi said hosting the Olympics in Calgary would cost nothing (it's not the first time he's had speaking gaffes and if the IOC was smart they'd keep him as far from a microphone as possible). While the targeted approach makes some sense, I still think if the IOC wants Australia (and I think they do as the media market is simply too large not to go back to) they are aiming at the wrong city. A Brisbane bid would be far too costly with too many unused venues (Brisbane does not need another 600,000+ stadium). I've said it before that Melbourne is their best most cost-effective option. Yes I am aware of the weather issue, but if the IOC is willing to bend the bidding rules they can bend the time frame for a few weeks. This Australia not Qatar. Australia has the media market to make it work.
  7. Bach is still living in fantasy land. The IOC is breathing a sigh of relief at the 2026 race, at least for now. I could still see Stockholm going with a referendum given the tepid support at best there. And Milan is not the cost-savings effective model it's claimed to be. There was a good reason Turin was in the original plans. Turin had the ice hockey arenas and the speed skating oval while Milan has none of those. Sure they will get built but will they see regular use or will they whither away as white elephants as the Pyeongchang arenas have? That's more likely. Interesting that the IOC practically has avoided anything associated with Pyeongchang's legacy (the sliding track has been mothballed, one ice hockey arena and the speed skating oval ace demolition) and no one may ever know what Rio's true costs were.
  8. 55% is fairly tepid support (wasn't Oslo's similar?) There was a no Olympics faction in Stockholm as well. They were saying Calgary would be a better option. How long before that group becomes active again? There's a lot to like about the Stockholm bid for the IOC, but playing the what if card here, what if Stockholm is awarded the games and a referendum gets called and Stockholm suffers the same fate as Denver did in 1976? Does the IOC then figure we gives the 2026 WOGs to Milan (while I think their support is higher than Stockholm's I highly doubt it is as high as 85%)
  9. I know the topic comes up from time to time about a SOGs in the Middle East. One of my students chose to do for her end of semester project a SOGs bid a UAE 2032 bid with Dubai and Abu Dhabi. She came up with a proposal including venue plans, infrastructure improvements, and a theme and logo. She had to present it before a panel who acted as IOC members. I've included the venue plan below. She proposed hosting the Olympics in October (always problematic) with largely existing and planned venues. The centerpiece of the bid was the proposed Dubai Olympic City which would be built near the site of the current Hamdan Sports Complex. This was also the site of the proposed Olympic Village while the MPC and IBC would be located at the Dubai 2020 Expo site. Other transportation improvements included two additional lines in the Dubai Metro, the often discussed and delayed Abu Dhabi Metro, and a bullet train connecting Dubai with Abu Dhabi. I've included the venue plan below. She borrowed heavily from the Los Angeles and Paris bid plans. Ceremonies – Opening Mohammed Bin Rashid Stadium - Dubai Olympic City 70,000 Ceremonies – Closing Zayed Sports City Stadium 60,000 Archery Zayed Sports City - soccer fields 6,000 Athletics Zayed Sports City Stadium 60,000 Athletics – marathon Madinat Jumeirah Varies Badminton Mohammed Bin Rashid Sports Hall - Dubai Olympic City 7,000 Basketball Dubai Arena 18,000 Basketball 3x3 Dubai Tennis Stadium 5,000 Beach volleyball Jumeirah Beach 10,000 Boxing Al Maktoum Stadium (temporary roof) 15,000 Canoeing – slalom Al Ain Whitewater Park 10,000 Canoeing – sprint Dubai Creek 20,000 Cricket Dubai Sports City Cricket Stadium 21,000 Sheikh Zayed Cricket Stadium 20,000 Cycling – BMX BMX Dubai - Dubai Olympic City 5,000 Cycling - mountain Fujairah 3,000 Cycling – road Dubai City Walk Varies Cycling – track Dubai Velodrome - Dubai Olympic City 10,000 Diving Dubai Olympic City Aquatic Centre (temporary, pool to be relocated to American University of Sharjah) 15,000 Equestrian Emirates Equestrian Centre 20,000 Fencing Abu Dhabi National Exhibition Centre 6,000 Field hockey Dubai Sports Club Stadium 12,000/5,000 Golf The Els Club Dubai Sports City 20,000 Gymnastics – artistic Yas Arena 18,000 Gymnastics – rhythmic Yas Arena 18,000 Gymnastics – trampoline Yas Arena 18,000 Judo Mubadala Arena 5,000 Modern pentathlon Al Ahli Sports Club 10,000/5,000 Rowing Dubai Creek 20,000 Rugby Dubai Sevens Stadium 50,000 Sailing Dubai International Marine Club 5,000 Shooting Al Ahli Sports Club 4,000 Skateboarding X-Dubai Skate Park Kite Beach 5,000 Soccer Mohammad Bin Rashid Stadium - Dubai Olympic City 70,000 Mohammed Bin Zayed Stadium 45,000 Hazza Bin Zayed Stadium 22,000 Sultan Qaboos Sports Complex 30,000 Bahrain National Stadium 45,000 Khalifa International Stadium 48,000 Sport climbing Abu Dhabi National Exhibition Centre 6,000 Surfing Dubai Sunset Beach 5,000 Swimming Dubai Olympic City Aquatic Centre 15,000 Swimming – marathon Yas Marina 5,000 Synchronized swimming Dubai Olympic City Aquatic Centre 15,000 Table tennis Dubai World Trade Centre 6,000 Taekwondo Abu Dhabi National Exhibition Centre 6,000 Team handball Yas Arena 18,000 Dubai World Trade Centre Arena 10,000 Tennis Zayed Sports City Tennis Stadium 10,000 Triathlon Yas Marina 5,000 Volleyball Hamdan Sports Centre 15,000 Water polo Dubai Sports City Aquatic Centre (permanent) 4,000 Weightlifting Dubai World Trade Centre 6,000 Wrestling Mudabala Arena 5,000
  10. Would this candidate have any chance of winning the election or is this just a social media effort to get the conversation on a referendum started?
  11. What is particularly baffling about this is we've seen very little coming out of Italy in terms of public support. Frankly, a poll commissioned by the IOC that has 80 plus percent is a bit of head scratcher. What's even more surprising is the government this thing after they practically declared a bid dead after Torino backed out. I also believe that the numbers the the bid organizers are pitching are grossly underestimated (I also think there's no way the government is going to pay just $456 million for security). The whole reason for including Torino was the existing venues. Without Torino, Milan needs two ice hockey areas and a speed skating arena. Does anyone really think those are going to come in at the budget being proposed not to mention the inevitable white-elephant possibility. Just look what has happened with Pyeongchang (their sliding track has been mothballed, several of the ice arenas may actually be demolished due to rising maintenance costs). After 2018 and 2022 the IOC needs a bid that is cost effective. A Milan Olympics that goes way over budget with white elephants might be a death knell for the WOGs in terms of Western Europe.
  12. Looking at the image, it seems like the parking lot would be awfully small for a MLB stadium that is unless they intend on demolishing part of the convention center and arena which would result in more changes.
  13. I'm aware the weather issues that hamper Melbourne, however, given the IOC's push for a cost-effective Olympics, Melbourne is the only option for Australia at the moment. And Australia has the sports history and they have the media market (not sure where they rank globally) where the IOC is going to want to go back to Australia at some point probably sooner rather than later. If that means bending the dates so Melbourne can host, while not ideal, it can be done. Having Brisbane go on a spending spree just because of the ideal weather window is not what the IOC needs or wants right now.
  14. Going from 40,000 seats to 15,000 seats is a lot different than going from 80,000 to 20,000 as London had proposed. On a smaller scale it can work for what Budapest is proposing. As for an Olympics, I don't see it. For IAAF events it's a perfect solution.
  15. A couple news outlets are reporting that if FIFA goes ahead with plans for an expanded World Cup in 2022, that it is possible Qatar could co-host with other Gulf states such as the UAE, Oman, and Kuwait. Surely FIFA realizes the quagmire that would create not to mention Kuwait is a dry country (no alcohol). As far as those stadiums in Qatar go, none of them look like they are being built with the "famed temporary seating that will be dismantled after the WC and shipped off to poorer countries." But if you have the money, who cares about white elephants?
  16. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2019/02/26/mayor-london-uk-sport-back-idea-oflondon-bid-2036-olympics/ Five years ago I would've said no way. With the current bidding climate, I wouldn't discount it. While it's not quite as ready to go as Los Angeles, London does have many of the problematic expensive venues already in place (Olympic Stadium, velodrome, whitewater course) already in place. I assume the aquatic center while not expandable could be used for water polo with a temporary pool for aquatics. They'd need a new Olympic Village and possibly a a new IBC/MPC complex.
  17. So the concern is building a satellite village? I thought the reason for choosing Lake Perris was so the dorms at UC Riverside could be used for housing.
  18. Melbourne has a stadium that fits athletics and the ceremonies. Brisbane is relying on a concept that has thus far proven to be unfeasible in building a small-scale stadium with a large number of temporary seats.
  19. $5.3 billion seems awfully conservative for a SOGs. The report says they'd build one stadium, I assume this would be the Olympic Stadium. Does Brisbane really have a need for a 70,000+ stadium post-Olympics? Doesn't seem so. I'd also assume that most of the venues from the CWGs would be used. The only way Brisbane can pull this off is insisting on smaller capacity venues IMO.
  20. Neither the 2024 Olympics nor the 2028 Olympics are in danger as of right now. In terms of Paris, the threat that a No Olympics movement could arise from the Yellow Vests protests is speculation at best. Right now, the protests are focused on taxation, wages, and cost of living. Most No Olympics movement target what they see as excessive government spending and the Yellow Vests have not taken that angle. If government spending suddenly comes to the forefront, then I could see demands made that Paris give up the Olympics. Yes they have signed a host city contract and the IOC would give Paris as lashing that would make their rhetoric towards Oslo look like a peace offering if they backed out, but the IOC really has no ability to enforce a city keeping the Olympics. All that said, despite the hostility toward Macron's government, I do not believe the Olympics are at risk.
  21. The IOC can advise Milan and Cortina all they want. Would the Swiss even accept using the track at St. Moritz after the overwhelming defeat of the Sion bid at the ballot box? For all the talk about how MIlan and Cortina fit the New Norm and Agenda 2020, there still isn't a budget, which when released is likely going to be a lot higher that predicted. The whole point of including Turin was because they had most of the venues from 2006 that likely only needed a bit of touch up anyway. Turin could've hosted while using the sliding track in Cortina, yet they let pride get involved when MIlan was inserted into the mix which needs a speed skating oval and another ice hockey arena which won't come cheap (I am assuming the Olympic Ice Stadium in Cortina will host short track and figure skating). When the budget comes out, it would not surprise me in the least if a No Olympics movement springs up and we hear talk of a referendum again.
  22. I've brought up the country-wide bid before and while the logistics would be difficult, it would be far easier for a country-wide bid from the likes of Switzerland or Austria if the IOC ever wants to go back to a traditional winter sports heartland in Europe again. Italy's bid was practically the northern part of the country prior to Turin's exit. A country-wide bid on the summer games side is a bit more complicated, though I think given the costs of the Olympics, if the IOC ever wanted to go to Africa it would have to be a country-wide bid (I brought up South Africa in another thread on this subject). The failure of Calgary with disagreements about Vancouver hosting nordic combined and ski jumping plus Turin's withdrawal from the Italian bid show the challenges of getting a regional bid to work. IMO for a regional bid to work it would require to potential parties involved to begin negotiations at the beginning before a bid was launched. It seemed like Calgary launched their bid then decided during the process that events like curling, ice hockey, and ski jumping might have to be farmed out to other locations as Calgary was launched with the assumption the ski jump towers would be renovated and the city and the Flames would come to an agreement on a new arena. For the SOGs. outside of Africa, the country-wide bid would be more a problem but I certainly would not rule out regional bids much like Germany. As for what else needs to be done, the influence of the respective sports federations is a huge issue, one that is seemingly being overlooked. They place a great deal of pressure on host cities to build them sparkling new venues that often become white elephants afterwards and when there is push back from a host city, the federations complain to the IOC who double up the pressure on the host city (see what happened with Tokyo and volleyball and rowing when they proposed using existing facilities for both sports). Lower capacities should be allowed as well. There's absolutely no reason that capacity requirements, especially for indoor events, cannot be the same as the Pan Ams or the CWGs. On the SOG side require hosts to use existing facilities, even if they are in another country, for events like slalom canoeing and track cycling, much as the WOGs have done with sliding tracks.
  23. Budapest awarded the 2023 IAAF World Championships. They will build a 40,000 seat stadium that will be scaled down to 15,000 and serve as a national athletics stadium after the event with the option the temporary seating could be restored (a future Budapest bid perhaps?) Eugene's expanded Hayward Field is only 30,000. I am a bit surprised the IAAF did not insist on Budapest have a larger capacity, which leads me to wonder again, if this can be a solution for the SOGs.
  24. What is unusual though is the Stockholm bid leaders aren't giving this up which is leading me to wonder if they are going to try and pull what Las Vegas did did in the 2020 race, launch a rogue bid, the difference being Sweden's national olympic committee is behind it. It's a long shot but I could see the strategy being Stockholm wins the right to hosts the 2026 WOGs then immediately turns to the government and tries to force their hand with funding for costs like security. Of course the government could turn right around and put it to a referendum which a negative result that would cripple Sweden's Olympic Committee and probably their chances of even bidding for another Olympics for a generation.
  25. https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1072808/bach-reveals-city-centre-opening-ceremony-dream-and-encourages-paris-2024-to-consider-concept More pipe dreaming by Bach? Seems to me this would be a logistical nightmare from a security standpoint.
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