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Quaker2001

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Everything posted by Quaker2001

  1. It's getting increasingly hard to take anything you're saying serious anymore. You need to stop jumping ahead to where you're presuming a boycott is a done deal and treating the situation like it already has happened. A few points.. The United States can't pull out of the IOC, they have a signed contract to host the 2028 Olympics. So that is a complete and total non-starter right there for them to even try. Do you really think the USOPC wants to be responsible for the death of the Olympics? I think a few folks in Los Angeles and at Comcast might have a few things to say about that.
  2. This is what Russia has. It starts with the letter V, probably will make you feel better and does kill certain cells in the body, but I doubt it'll do much against a virus..
  3. Here's my response to that.. what if that doesn't happen? If Trump is still president (once again, G-d help us if that happens), then yes, he'll make a big stink about anyone and anything dealing with China out of his own personal vendetta. If Biden is president? Wouldn't count on it. He's not going to run the country in the same shoddy business-like matter that we've seen the past 3.5 years. I don't see him making the kind of stand you think he will just because it sounds nice on principle. And if other countries have to be "forced" into boycotting, then it's probably not going to
  4. What Nacre said. You keep saying how you think there's going to be this huge groundswell for a boycott and that if the United States leads the efforts, other countries will join. Not if Trump remains POTUS. Because unless the messaging is clear (and it almost certainly won't be from him), that will be a tough political campaign for other world leaders to get behind, no matter how much they hate China. Once again because you continue to skirt the point.. if this is about "hate," then it's not going to accomplish much of anything. It's going to be an empty gesture that will not serve an
  5. So we would boycott on principle? The IOC is not decent. We know this. They're not going to pull the plug, and it's not as if there weren't people who pointed to human rights violations back in 2001 when Beijing got awarded the 2008 games and had questions in the lead-up to those Olympics. You are still not answering the fundamental question though. Who would you hope is accomplished with a boycott of the 2022 Olympics? If all you have is "just do it on principle," then it's going to be an empty gesture that will not lead to any sort of meaningful change.
  6. I think I've made it crystal clear that Trump will not act rationally. He'll make a major stink about this to rile up his supporters and to all but wage war with China. I have little doubt that will be a thing. I'm not so sure with Biden. But you can't default to "he may not act rationally" and use that do make a case for inserting your own narrative. You need to provide a "why" there. Of course anti-China sentiment is high right now because of COVID-19, among other things. The question is still what would a boycott of the 2022 Olympics accomplish? Is that a political statement tha
  7. This is an Olympic bid forum. By default, we are going to spend more time discussing and thinking about the possibility of a boycott than Joe Biden might. If he wins the election (again, G-d help us if he doesn't), he's going to have a thousand things to deal with. Is the Beijing 2022 Olympics going to important enough on his agenda to spend the time and effort to use to make a major statement? That this is in the Winter of 2022 means that it's well clear of any major election cycle. You can't just throw the idea of "political radicalism" out there and assume this will be something the pr
  8. Yes, Trump may throw a temper tantrum(p), but he doesn't have that kind of power. And someone I doubt he wants to napalm business interests in Southern California because that's going to make for one hell of a mess with 2028 with the contracts that exist on both sides. I don't doubt that he may try to do something ridiculous like that, but it doesn't mean he would succeed. That's absurd that US athletes should think they can't go to 2022. Again.. why? What would American athletes not competing in China accomplish? Would China suddenly be friendlier with Hong Kong as a result? Once a
  9. Would it have though? Would history have changed if the United States didn't show up in Berlin and give the Germans a spectacle? Might have been an important statement by the United States, but I doubt it would have slowed Hitler's rise to power and his determination to wage war on Europe.
  10. And how much of all that with China is new material that didn't exist back in 2008? Suddenly it's an issue now that the United States needs to make a stand against? Again, is the goal to "spite" China? Or actually attempt to force a change in their international policy? Because if it's the former, it's going to come off as petty and likely will accomplish nothing. History tells us that the only thing that really happened with the 1980 boycott is that a lot of athletes lost out on a once in a lifetime chance to compete at the Olympics. That boycott you could argue was out of spite bec
  11. "to do something".. okay, is that something a boycott? Again, what would that intend to accomplishment? What is the end game here that Biden would hope to accomplish a move like that? And yes, there's no comparison between Trump and Carter. Their motivations for a boycott are completely unrelated, so to say "well, they both led a boycott of an Olympics (assuming Trump plays that card)," that's largely where the similarities end.
  12. Might be? So you think the United States will boycott on "might be"? What specific behavior are we not tolerating that we would refuse to send an Olympics team to China? Particularly after we sent one there in 2008. You didn't answer the question. What would the purpose of a boycott that you think the United States and other Western nations might accomplish? We'll never know how history might have changed if the United States really knew what was going on in Germany in the mid-1930s and didn't send a team to Berlin. But this isn't 1936. It's 2020. The notion of a 1936 boycot
  13. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other, so it's terrible logic to try and conflate the 2. What does history tell us about the 1980 boycott? That in hindsight, it was a dumb decision. It was a virtually pointless gesture in terms of affecting global politics. And the only thing that changed was that a large group of athletes forever lost their Olympic dreams. They were the ones who were hurt more than the Soviets. So what exactly is the hope that a 2022 boycott would accomplishment? Do we really think China will change because a handful of prominent Western nations didn't sh
  14. There is no comparison between Biden and Trump on this one. None. To repeat what I said above.. if Trump wins, he will push for a boycott, not because he is anti-China, but to fuel his own ego and to rile up his base. And for no other reason. No amount of advice is likely to do much on that front. Different with Biden. He knows that a boycott isn't likely to accomplish anything, so it's not a matter of advisors talking him out of it. Someone would have to talk him into it in the first place. And while Trump can't still be president in 2028 (unless he were to lose and run again)
  15. How so? You're talking 8 years from now, so we don't know what US-China relations will look like by that point. Who or what gets served by having China skip out on the 2028 Olympics, particularly if it's in retribution to any political agenda that might have been laid out years earlier?
  16. No. Don't consider that. In fact, erase that thought from your head immediately. That's a boycott any way you want to spin it. A lot of athletes get only 1 shot at an Olympics. No one is going to sit it out just because they feel bad for other athletes. That's not solidarity. That's stupidity. If athletes are fearful of travelling to China or supporting that country in any way, that's understandable. But I can promise you, there won't be a single athlete that says "I feel sorry for the wrestler who didn't get his moment.. I'm giving up my chance as well!"
  17. I'll believe it when I see it. Does the United States really want to boycott 2022 knowing it all but guarantees that China won't be here in 2028. And we know how big of a deal that was for them to show up in LA in 1984. If Trump gets re-elected (G-d help us if that happens), I'm sure he'll push for a 2022 boycott because someone will plant the idea in his head and he'll rile up all his supporters, and they'll force the USOPC's hand to cave in. If Biden wins the election?.. not sure sure he'll push so hard to make that kind of political statement, especially without a groundswell of oth
  18. No one will say that last part. Stefan hit on it perfect.. China will maintain (as best they can) a happy face for the rest of the world knowing a lot of eyes will be on them for the next year and a half, as if there's already not a ton of scrutiny because of COVID-19. They won't do anything before February 2022 or else other countries will reject them and that's not what they want to project to the rest of the world. After that, then all bets are off
  19. Why would athletes not feel safe in China? Yea, the pandemic isn't over. That makes just about every country out there unsafe at this point. I don't see why China is somehow a scary place to be simply because that's where the virus originated from. The 1 thing 1 know we can count on from them is that they'll sanitize their world image and clean things up when everyone is focusing their attention on them. Yes, all of this is dependent on the situation with the virus being better in 2022 than it is now. Of course, there's another Olympics before then. Does Japan not need to worry about Co
  20. Who cares about fair? This is the IOC we're talking about. I'll believe in boycotts when I see them. You really think the USOPC would boycott an Olympics in China knowing it's almost certain that China would decline to come here in 2028? No shot. And should Tokyo not be able to host next Summer because of the pandemic, do you really think the IOC would punish themselves and tell China they're a no go? Right now is a pretty bad time for Olympism. Let's hope the state of the world, both in terms of the pandemic and other human rights issues, gets better in the next 12 months. I'm hop
  21. That's not how this works. The IOC is about to cut off their nose to spite their face. If the pandemic continues and it's not safe to hold the 2022 Olympics, that's one thing. But if Tokyo can't go, there's no shot the IOC is going to turn to China and say "you screwed things up for everyone.. no Olympics for you either, we're shutting it down" That would make absolutely no sense. Japan is struggling enough to try and put on the Tokyo Olympics. The last thing they need is to have another Olympics just a few months later. As is, I still wonder about their enthusiasm to bid for 203
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