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Posts posted by Quaker2001

  1. 29 minutes ago, REDWHITEBLUE24 said:

    It might be seen as the opposite of 1936 - not tolreating the same type of behaviour that attending 1936 helped to further support.

    Might be?  So you think the United States will boycott on "might be"?  What specific behavior are we not tolerating that we would refuse to send an Olympics team to China?  Particularly after we sent one there in 2008.

    You didn't answer the question.  What would the purpose of a boycott that you think the United States and other Western nations might accomplish?  We'll never know how history might have changed if the United States really knew what was going on in Germany in the mid-1930s and didn't send a team to Berlin.  

    But this isn't 1936.  It's 2020.  The notion of a 1936 boycott had a fairly specific agenda.  So did 1980.  What's the agenda here?  Again, with Trump as president, I can already see the narrative forming.  Not with Biden.  To say he's anti-China is not cause for him to organize and support a boycott.

  2. 12 minutes ago, REDWHITEBLUE24 said:

    The UK would Join the USA - so would probably Australia, Poland, Hungary among others.

    10 minutes ago, REDWHITEBLUE24 said:

    Carter led the 1980 boycott remember - so Biden might well support a 2022 boycott.

    One has absolutely nothing to do with the other, so it's terrible logic to try and conflate the 2.  What does history tell us about the 1980 boycott?  That in hindsight, it was a dumb decision.  It was a virtually pointless gesture in terms of affecting global politics.  And the only thing that changed was that a large group of athletes forever lost their Olympic dreams.  They were the ones who were hurt more than the Soviets.

    So what exactly is the hope that a 2022 boycott would accomplishment?  Do we really think China will change because a handful of prominent Western nations didn't show up in Beijing?  Is this retribution for the virus?  If you think Biden would make a political statement (forget Trump.. we know any statement he makes will be solely about him and his ego), what would that statement be?  It can't just be "grrr, we're angry at China, let's piss them off by boycotting their Olympics."  That's an empty gesture that, much like Carter in 1980, will be remembered as a pointless political move that served absolutely no means

  3. 4 hours ago, Nacre said:

    Biden is not exactly pro-China either.

    An Olympic boycott would 1) accomplish nothing in getting China to accept more human rights, 2) merely encourage the Chinese to engage in tit-for-tat retaliation, 3) give up some leverage in negotiations (we will attend the Olympics and sing China's praises if China does _____), and 4) encourage more political militancy in the West. Hopefully government advisors can explain to Trump (and to Biden if he wins election) that while something needs to be done about China, an Olympic boycott is not the thing to be done.

    There is no comparison between Biden and Trump on this one.  None.

    To repeat what I said above.. if Trump wins, he will push for a boycott, not because he is anti-China, but to fuel his own ego and to rile up his base.  And for no other reason.  No amount of advice is likely to do much on that front.

    Different with Biden.  He knows that a boycott isn't likely to accomplish anything, so it's not a matter of advisors talking him out of it.  Someone would have to talk him into it in the first place.  And while Trump can't still be president in 2028 (unless he were to lose and run again), if Biden wins, members of his team could still be there in 2028.  So they'll knew what the ramifications are of boycotting 2022 with regards to 2028.  It'll serve little purpose, especially without a lot of backing from other countries as we saw with the 1980 boycott.  

  4. 6 hours ago, olympikfan said:

    So again, Summer Olympics are cancel, but that's OK China we in Japan just lost billions on Yens. Japan and China are not best of friends. And Japan will send their winter athletes over? And other countries  will support Japan. The EU and UK just might support Japan. The Olympics are nothing in Europe the only thing that matters is Football! And Euro 2020 in 2021 is the main thing in EU. And Japan could care less, because Japan won't host any Olympics for a very long time; IF they are cancel. And forget about 2028 what about 2024. If  France backs Japan. And I did some calculations. This year is year 999,999 so next year could be the millionth year!


  5. On 8/6/2020 at 7:20 AM, olympikfan said:

    Here is another thing to consider, If the summer Olympics are cancel. who is to say that the winter athletes will start a movement of solidarity to show support for those  summer athletes. who lost their moment. In other words we didn't have ours you don't get yours. Another way to not use the word boycott.

    No.  Don't consider that.  In fact, erase that thought from your head immediately.  That's a boycott any way you want to spin it.

    A lot of athletes get only 1 shot at an Olympics.  No one is going to sit it out just because they feel bad for other athletes.  That's not solidarity.  That's stupidity.

    If athletes are fearful of travelling to China or supporting that country in any way, that's understandable.  But I can promise you, there won't be a single athlete that says "I feel sorry for the wrestler who didn't get his moment.. I'm giving up my chance as well!"

  6. On 8/4/2020 at 6:24 AM, REDWHITEBLUE24 said:

    I am 90% sure the USA, UK and Japan will all boycott and in return they will be boycotts of western held games.

    On 8/4/2020 at 6:26 AM, REDWHITEBLUE24 said:

    I don't think people realise that if the white house wants a boycott (And Biden is just as anti China as Trump) no American athlete will risk being seen as a traitor by pushing to compete.

    On 8/4/2020 at 6:28 AM, REDWHITEBLUE24 said:

    With the boycott movement starting China has already got countries very likely going to boycott 2022.

    I'll believe it when I see it.  Does the United States really want to boycott 2022 knowing it all but guarantees that China won't be here in 2028.  And we know how big of a deal that was for them to show up in LA in 1984.

    If Trump gets re-elected (G-d help us if that happens), I'm sure he'll push for a 2022 boycott because someone will plant the idea in his head and he'll rile up all his supporters, and they'll force the USOPC's hand to cave in.  If Biden wins the election?.. not sure sure he'll push so hard to make that kind of political statement, especially without a groundswell of other politicians pushing him for it.  And I don't think that's going to happen.

    Should there be a more coordinating worldwide effort involved here, that's a different story.  But again, how does the United States or France or Italy become a part of that when they're in bed with the IOC and did so after they had already awarded an Olympics to China?  Because then that torpedoes the value of their investment and I'm not sure that's a route they'll want to be forced into.  Let alone LA 2028 who is NOT backed by the government and relies on private funding.  So that hurts them big time if a country representing 1/5 of humanity (as they reminded us with their 2008 pitch) isn't in attendance, and who knows what other countries might join them in solidarity.

    • Like 1

  7. On 8/1/2020 at 12:39 PM, Faster said:

    The political situation in China has radically deteriorated since 2008. Leading up to 2008 China was lead by someone hand-picked by Deng Xaiopeng in his efforts to mordernize and reform the CPC of the excesses of the Mao era. There is not going to be a transition of power in 2022/2023 like there has been since the end of the Deng era. Xi is dictator for life and every prominent old guard member is either behind him, or sidelined. That has lead to the excesses we have seen from what is happening in Hong Kong, to the Uighurs, to Pacific coast nations of the Americas shitting themselves over the size and scope of Chinese fishing fleets coming their way. The world is going to have to unify against a much more aggressive and belligerent China under Mr Pooh. 

    I remember wanting to go to Beijing in 2008 and almost pulled the trigger to do it, now there is not a hope in hell I will set foot in that country. China is fucking scary, and the potential for fullscale war is something that you would have thought unimaginable 12 years ago is now a serious possibility. With China having a lot of advantageous.  India would face war on two or three fronts, how can anyone protect Taiwan, Vietnam and the Philippines? Let a lone the potential danger posed to Japan and Korea. People thought economic integration would limit wars 80 years ago, it didn't and it won't now.

    Beijing 2022 could be just as easily, and some could say more likely, cancelled because of war as because of this pandemic.

    No one will say that last part.  Stefan hit on it perfect.. China will maintain (as best they can) a happy face for the rest of the world knowing a lot of eyes will be on them for the next year and a half, as if there's already not a ton of scrutiny because of COVID-19.  They won't do anything before February 2022 or else other countries will reject them and that's not what they want to project to the rest of the world.  After that, then all bets are off

  8. 1 hour ago, olympikfan said:

    Are athletes going to feel safe in China? You think the world will forget about Covid 19 in 2022.  The WHO has yet to declare the pandemic over. The NHL would send its players over. And international tourists would go to China, This is not the world of 2008.

    Why would athletes not feel safe in China?  Yea, the pandemic isn't over.  That makes just about every country out there unsafe at this point.  I don't see why China is somehow a scary place to be simply because that's where the virus originated from.  The 1 thing 1 know we can count on from them is that they'll sanitize their world image and clean things up when everyone is focusing their attention on them.  Yes, all of this is dependent on the situation with the virus being better in 2022 than it is now.  Of course, there's another Olympics before then.  Does Japan not need to worry about Covid?

  9. On 7/16/2020 at 2:48 PM, Ikarus360 said:

    I mean, it's only fair that they are punished and equally get their games cancelled if Tokyo loses them. Even if they did not caused the pandemic, the fact that their lies and constant cover ups of the virus evolution which have also been exposed by either WHO's own dumbness or Taiwan (a country which China loves to isolate from everything and yet they managed to manage this disaster much better than many other countries) is still there. Even without the cancellation the shadow of a boycott is stronger than ever and Hong Kong might be the excuse the West will use to justify it. Let's hope nothing of this happens, but if Tokyo is cancelled next year get ready for the worst years for Olympism since WW2.

    Who cares about fair?  This is the IOC we're talking about.  I'll believe in boycotts when I see them.  You really think the USOPC would boycott an Olympics in China knowing it's almost certain that China would decline to come here in 2028?  No shot.

    And should Tokyo not be able to host next Summer because of the pandemic, do you really think the IOC would punish themselves and tell China they're a no go?  Right now is a pretty bad time for Olympism.  Let's hope the state of the world, both in terms of the pandemic and other human rights issues, gets better in the next 12 months.  I'm hopeful the virus can be reigned in to the point it's safe to have sports again (I plan on doing my part for that on November 3rd), but considering it was no secret that China did not in fact clean up their act after the 2008 Olympics, clearly the IOC does not consider human rights issues a dealbreaker.

    • Like 1

  10. On 7/15/2020 at 9:33 PM, olympikfan said:

    If Tokyo is cancel and don't rule it out does anyone  think it will be pay back to China.

    That's not how this works.  The IOC is about to cut off their nose to spite their face.  If the pandemic continues and it's not safe to hold the 2022 Olympics, that's one thing.  But if Tokyo can't go, there's no shot the IOC is going to turn to China and say "you screwed things up for everyone.. no Olympics for you either, we're shutting it down"

    On 7/14/2020 at 11:41 AM, Brekkie Boy said:

    It won't move because we know these events follow the money, not the morals.   If it did though relocating the Winter Games to Japan would make the most sense given what is happening with the summer games - an absolute last resort if Beijing lost hosting rights and Tokyo 2021 couldn't go ahead would be to have both games in Japan in 2022.

    That would make absolutely no sense.  Japan is struggling enough to try and put on the Tokyo Olympics.  The last thing they need is to have another Olympics just a few months later.  As is, I still wonder about their enthusiasm to bid for 2030 given what it's costing them to put on the 202One Olympics

  11. On 7/15/2020 at 9:37 PM, olympikfan said:

    Don't rule out that Tokyo might get cancel. Its a strong possibility. If the world has a second wave and COVID can not be control . The Olympics are cancel. And if anyone thinks it wont happen the risks are very high.

    Who is ruling it out and thinks it won't happen?

    We have no idea what the world will look like 4 or 8 or 12 months from now.  It doesn't need to be said, not by Dick Pound or whoever in a forum, that the Olympics might get cancelled.  I think we all know that at this point.

    However, if they don't get cancelled...Tokyo Olympic schedule remains the same, venues lined up

  12. 25 minutes ago, AjayLopez25List said:

    So.. it doesn't matter.. this is a forum website, we all can reply even the comment will be like 2 years ago.. 2030 it is long time from this recent year that time Covid-2019 will be no more

    I don't care you're replying to an old comment, but it's missing the point completely to lose the point of reference when that comment is made.  Yes, Sapporo said they're interested in bidding.  That was before the 2020 Olympics got postponed by a year and will cost Japan a huge sum of money.  And it's far from a guarantee that next summer will go off so smoothly.

    So add all that up together and are we confident Sapporo is going to bid for the 2030 Olympics?  Because now it's going to be a year later that they are done with Tokyo and a lot more money spent, so they may have reservations about spending billions more on another Olympics when a lot of Japanese citizens aren't so sure they want the first one to happen.

  13. 2 minutes ago, AjayLopez25List said:

    It is official Sapporo is in the game of bidding with Salt Lake for 2030 olympics (winter games) and Barcelona is rumored they to compete in the bid and Ukraine but no city selected as thier representative host for bidding for winter olympics

    You're replying to a post from September.  A couple of things have happened with the world since then that perhaps might affect whether or not Sapporo is in the game for 2030.

  14. 9 minutes ago, Nacre said:

    I think it will honestly be pretty horrendous for players and fans. The USSF only cares about stuffing it pockets with cash, so you can expect them to pick hosts by how much money they can make rather than making travel easy for the national teams and fans following their teams. 

    On the flip side I can't wait to hear their explanation for how it is actually environmentally friendly to route a team 10,000 km  in the group stage from Montreal to Los Angeles to New York to Houston.

    The 1994 World Cup still holds the record for highest attendance, and that was with only 24 teams before they expanded.  So clearly it wasn't that horrendous.  Yes, I know the stories about European fans used to travelling by train who found it a little tougher to get around.  Did Brazil not have to deal with that?  Russia?  And I'm pretty sure fans will welcome the North American experience with open arms after dealing with a World Cup held in Qatar.

    So save the sanctimonious nonsense as if the US-Canada-Mexico bid wasn't an obvious choice for 2026 over Morocco.  It'll be an outstanding World Cup.  And remember with expansion comes the new group stage format.  1/3 of all the teams will only play 2 games, so travel is not likely to be a major concern.

    • Thanks 1

  15. 1 hour ago, TGAA_Star said:

    I mean was it ever really in doubt that Australia/New Zealand weren't going to win the rights to host? I mean they have better infrastructure, better tourism hub, better airport access for teams to arrive in country by plane, better transportation hub to get from and to the stadiums

    I am sorry to say all of this but it is true and that is why they were awarded the tournament

    This is FIFA we're talking about.  Who once chose Qatar over the United States.  So yes, it wasn't 100% that Australia/New Zealand would win, even against a less interesting bid

    • Thanks 1

  16. 15 hours ago, TorchbearerSydney said:

    SO- this morning UEFA have said they will support Columbia, effectively sinking the AUS/NZ bid...


    They have apparently said they want to open the game to new frontiers....in a time of COVID, global recession, with only 3 years to organise an expanded tournament...I would have thought a super safe choice would have been the only sensible choice. But we are talking FIFA.....


    You were saying...

    Australia & New Zealand Win Vote To Host 2023 FIFA Women’s World Cup

  17. 42 minutes ago, StefanMUC said:

    If I were American at this time, I wouldn't want to make jokes about the dictatorship that will host the next Winter Olympics. By the time 2028, you might live in a martial law authoritarian regime yourself (or even already by November 4th if Orangehead doesn't get the results he likes and his sycophants don't stop him).

    Yea, we're pretty close to that point already.  The good thing about 2028 is that - unless something ridiculous happens, and I don't even want to think about that - is that there's no way Trump is the President at that point and someone else will have been in place for at least 3.5 years.  I can't offer an outsider's perspective, but I'm guessing we haven't quite reached the "we're as bad as China" point just yet.

  18. 12 hours ago, mountainboarder_530@yahoo. said:

    of course they are.  Just like the World Cup in Russia, the IOC is going to have to hold their nose and jump in.  Its about survival at this point.  Im not sure they would survive a Beijing boycott.  Sidebar, if anyone is going to have to make a move NOW, its gonna have to be FIFA with the Qatar world cup, that one HAS to move, it is an unmitigated disaster.

    Qatar was awarded the 2022 World Cup nearly 10 years ago (December 2010).  FIFA has had almost a decade to re-evaluate that choice with all that we've learned in that time.  And yet the 2022 World Cup is still scheduled for Qatar.  They didn't have the balls to go up against an oil rich Arab nation and tell them "you know what, we changed our minds.. sorry."  If they didn't do that in 2013 or 2015 or 2017, why would they do it in 2020?

    Yes, that World Cup is likely going to be a disaster on a number of levels.  But the time to fix that mistake has come and passed.  FIFA has to live with the fallout and yes, they'll tell the world that they're happy with the decision rather than giving any indication they regret their choice.

  19. 2 hours ago, baron-pierreIV said:

    Ah, brings back memories of when I first moved to NYC in the early 1970s.  I first lived in the Flushing-Bayside area.  That natatorium, of course, wasn't even on the drawing boards then.  

    I've said it many times on here.. a lot of infrastructure projects got spurred on by the 2012 bid that might not have happened otherwise.  So there was some value in that effort and what it led to, even though it didn't result in the Olympics coming here

  20. 7 minutes ago, avensiss said:

    I do find it weird though that mega cities, like Paris, dont have a world class aquatic centre or velodrome....or a sports mad city like Brisbane not having a decent 60,000 seat stadium. An advanced city should have a these facilities..Ok I agree white water stadiums and bobsled tracks are a bit niche!

    What is a "world class aquatic centre" anyway?  Having an Olympic-sized pool and ancillary facilities is something many cities can build, but there's very little use to put thousands of seats in that venue considering how little that would get used.  But it's interesting to note this is a thing... Flushing Meadows Natatorium

    That was going to be the water polo venue for the New York's 2012 Olympic bid.  It got built anyway and opened in 2008.

    • Like 1

  21. 20 hours ago, baron-pierreIV said:

    I think all of the above was based on the pre-Covid-19 situation.  Contracts with the IOC, especially with quality partners like Japan in contention, can be up for negotiation.  And I don't think the IOC will want to screw Tokyo and the Japanese gov't if 2021 doesn't happen at all -- because there will go Sapporo 2030.  The IOC has more to lose if it tightens the screws on TOCOG more than is reasonable and fair.  

    What Stefan said.  The IOC isn't always the most forward-thinking organization.  Sure, they may votes along lines with the next Olympics in mind, but do you really trust that the IOC will take care of Tokyo solely so they can ensure Sapporo would stay in the running for 2030?  This postponement and the ensuing fallout may have but the kibosh on their plans already.

    The more alarming revelations from this are the implications on future hosts.  Potential bidders may need to be increasingly wary of what they're getting themselves into.  And yes, the IOC clearly needs be much more open with how they're helping out with Tokyo or else it's going to make them look bad.

  22. 10 hours ago, Palette86 said:

    As the article notes.. there wasn't a plan B the first time out.  Then they said they would take 4 weeks to come up with a plan B.  1 week later, they announced the postponement.

    I don't know if another postponement is possible and will be under consideration at any point.  But it doesn't seem like it should be completely out of the realm of possible for that to happen just because he's saying so now

  23. 18 minutes ago, baron-pierreIV said:

    While I agree with you for the most part -- and the IOC can do it, with an organization of more than 600 PAID employees, sure.  

    But between global pandemics and the Olympics being the most blatant example of how a new virus can be so quickly and intensively spread, I think the IOC and the sports federations might have to think of new models.  (Why, there's even question at this point whether the Democrats will go ahead with their convention this year.  The Republicans, pandemic or no pandemic, will go ahead with their show in Charlotte, because Donald loves that sort of thing and the coronation (notice the built-in word there; - virus missing) ceremony.  They will need to wow people with the footage there.  But I digress . . .)

    I think the IOC and its choice of host cities -- and its contracts with NBC and the other big networks -- will have to be open to the fact that their big shows might not go on at all in the future.  So contingency arrangements will now have to be spelled out ad infintum in the Host City contracts.  But the IOC shouldn't feel too bad; they don't have the billion dollar stadia like the newly opened Chase Center, SoFi and Reliant stadia with no games to fill them.  That should also be a lesson for cities to stop fronting public monies for these showcase white elephants.  

    But I think the real story behind this pandemic phenomenon -- that Covid-19 is really a Russian invention -- out to sabotage the IOC, has yet to be told!!  ;)

    Did you take your meds this morning? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

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