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Returning Moose

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  1. Returning Moose

    Potential 2026 and 2028 bids

    At least it is unlikely that any Norwegian bids will come forward. There are still too many pissed off people from the two previous attempts, and after Sochi the general idea of spending billions on a WOG and hence indirectly supporting IOC has little popular support. If I were a part of IOC, I would now be desperate to get the WOG back to Europe or North America were the real winter sport interest is, or they risk to slowly become less relevant. It is good to diversify, but after three WOGs in Asia (Sochi is also Asian by many definitions) they'd better off focusing a bit on the core winter markets. The problem is, that IOC' reputation after Sochi is still shattered, even if some positive steps have been taken lately.
  2. Returning Moose

    The Worst WOG of the history

    Clearly, Sochi was the worst WOG ever. Fake arenas, fake host athletes, and shamelessly used in political propaganda by Russia's leader(s). Pyongchang only has the first of these elements, and even if the number of spectators were few even at spectacular events like downhill, the legacy of this WOG will be clearly better.
  3. Returning Moose

    Brilliant Day in Vancouver

    ^^ Sorry, can't let this go just yet The problem with the GDR program, and probably to some degree Soviet Union and other east block countries was that it encompassed all athletes starting in the teens, although it is unclear if all the athletes were aware of it: http://open.salon.com/blog/lost_in_berlin/2009/08/19/east_german_doping_scandal_refuses_to_die http://articles.latimes.com/1989-07-15/sports/sp-3016_1_east-german http://www.runnersweb.com/running/philip_hersh1.html http://www.atlantic-times.com/archive_detail.php?recordID=1954 Katarina With was part of the Stasi system. The chance that she did not take any drugs is in fact very slim. Of course many of the athletes in the GDR may have won their medals anyway, but that is not the point: They were won in a dishonest way. Of course, if it is the case that there is no official historic medal tally, the Germans can make any list they want, but it will be nothing to be proud of if it include the GDR. Another, more technical and less important point is that two NOCs will have greater chanse of winning more medals simply because they can participate with twice the number of athletes. I do not think anyone would protest if the the various forms of western and unified German medals were collected. Since there was very lax control on doping well into the 90s, there were of course also many other athletes that were involved in doping. Hence, one way of avoiding this whole issue is simply to exclude all medals from the worst decades. Oh, and BTW, two more medals for Norway / Trøndelag tonight....
  4. Returning Moose

    Brilliant Day in Vancouver

    I am not sure what we are discussing anymore. DDR in particular, but also other east block countries including the Soviet Union had doping programs for their athletes. Some other countries and sports also have had serious doping problems, like Finland in cross country skiing and professional cycling in general. Of course this was not a fact that was pleasant to digest for some Germans, but hopefully most Germans now agree that medals won under such circumstances are nothing to be proud of. Even the Russians now at least officially try to phase out the "everybody else does it" argument (but a bit disturbing that EPO-doped and busted Jevgenij Dementjev were still training with the national team last summer). Everybody else did not and does not do it. As for Oddvar Brå, he participated in 6 WOGs, and his best placement was a fourth place (with skating technique!) in his last WOG in Calgary. It has to be said that he, as many cross country skiers, was asthmatic at least in the latter part of his career, but neither that fact or luck explains all his problems in championships. Oh, I got to watch Northug win the 5th gold for Trøndelag...
  5. Returning Moose

    Brilliant Day in Vancouver

    When Bjørndalen does not win it is usually because hi makes mistake in the shooting. He has consistently been the best skier among the biathlon skiers save perhaps Berger (who almost always shoot badly). But yeah, surprises happens, that's why we care to watch. But when it come to the afore mentioned countries, organized doping in the past has been proved beyond doubt, and in the case of GDR and Finland at least, confessed. That is something different.
  6. Returning Moose

    Brilliant Day in Vancouver

    In every sports, yes, but not anywhere. I am not naive, but the possibility to hide it is much greater if doping is organized at a national level. That has clearly ever been the case in for instance Norway / Sweden, and , afaik, the only winter sports athlete from Norway / Sweden that was ever busted for doping was a Norwegian ski jumper a couple of years ago who was busted for THC /cannabis (clearly not making him a better ski jumper, the guy has had some serious personal issues). For not many years ago there was hardly any control in many countries, and none what so ever regarding blood doping. Hopefully the more aggressive WADA and some signs that the Russians finally start taking this (a bit) more seriously means that the sport is now cleaner than it has been for decades. However, I would be more confident if lifelong bans for first offence would be introduced. It is really irritating to see dopers jump back into a competition after just two years suspension.
  7. Returning Moose

    Brilliant Day in Vancouver

    Oh, by the way, the last couple of days have indeed been brilliant for Norway, and in particular for my own home region: Trøndelag kicks butt! Norway has (temporaliy, I believe) passed Germany on the medal tally with 5 golds. As discussed by the above article, Trøndelag alone, which includes Trondheim, has taken 4 golds and 7 medals total, enough to place them at third place in the medal tally if they were a country of their own! And still the largest medal hope, cross country skier Petter Northug, has not really started, and we have the potential of winning many more medals in the week to come....
  8. Returning Moose

    Brilliant Day in Vancouver

    If I were German, I would distance myself from the muddy medals of GDR/DDR as much as possible. Their sports program was ethical outrageous and a disgrace for the olympics. I wonder how many more medals countries like Norway and Sweden could have won during the "black" 70s and 80s and even during the 90s if their athletes did not meet "athletes" from countries with organized doping programs like GDR (not 90s in that case), Soviet Union / Russia and Finland. For instance, from 1968 to well into the 80s the by far best skier in the world cup was Oddvar Brå of Norway, but at each championship he suprisingly lost the medals to athletes from the afore mentioned countries who had not been high up on the lists before. Now we know why. Germany don't need the GDR medals anyway, a couple of decades ahead I am sure they will pass Norway on the medal tally, at least if the current trend continues.
  9. Ich finde, dass mehr Deutch in dieses Forum ganz Spass würde, als ich mein Deutch 20 Jahre nach Schule ganz schecht ist....
  10. Returning Moose

    Why I Support A Beijing Boycott.

    Quote from www.Amnesty.org today:
  11. Returning Moose

    Why I Support A Beijing Boycott.

    I do not think LiuTian's posting should be ignored If you were a bit more polite, more people might care about what you are writing. You of course know more about China than me and most other people on this forum, but the problem in China is that only state-sanctioned news and other information is allowed, so how could you really tell facts from fiction? While these "facts" are clearly not clear cut, as Tibet had autonomy and sometimes were entirely out of control by the Chinese for large parts of this period, certainly 1911-1949, I must ask you: What is your point? What people are mostly upset about, is the government of Chinas ignorance of basic human rights, such as the right to speak your own language and freedom of speech and religion. What happened centuries ago simply is not relevant, and nobody questions that China is multiethnic By the way, although the natives of North America and Oceania still suffer economically and in other ways from the severly unfair treatment of the past, there is no doubt that these people today enjoy full freedom. You cannot free people that is already free. I though you said Tibet was Chinese 1911-1949.... Judging on the many uprisings in Tibet, it does not exactly seem like the Tibetians share your view on Dalai Lama. If Dalai Lama was so bad and unpopular in Tibet, why don't you give the Tibetans a choice in a free election, between independence or continual communist rule? Dalai Lama currently does not call for independence of Tibet, but cultural autonomy and dialogue with the Chinese government As far as I understand, these money is almost entirely spent in the cities by and on the Chinese Han immigrants, leaving the traditional Tibetanians in the pits of their own country, which was one of the main causes of the recent anger. Nonebode wants to China to become another Yugoslavia. If China opens up a little also politically, they may avoid it before it is to late. Actually, there is no doubt in my mind that if Scotland, Northern Ireland, Qubec and even Texas (???) called for freedom through a free election, they would get it, much the same way as the Chechoslovakia and Soviet Union split up reasonably peacefully, and further ago, Ireland split from UK, Norway split from Sweden etc. etc. So far, however, the independence movement have not gained enough support in neither areas. Actually I partly agree on this one, but I think Rudd is moving in the right direction. We can't really know, do we, as the Chines authorities disallow any free press that can report what is actually happening. What we do know is that: 1. The Tibetan language is suppressed. 2. Tibetans munks are not allowed to even express the name of their religious leader (Dalai Lama) without facing problems. 3. Peaceful munks where arrested and not allowed to express their views prior to the riots. Why do you think western government is behind Dalai Lama? Although it has happened in the past I do not think this is the case today. The Tibetian issue just creates problems for them in their dealings with China. What western governments are interested in is a well-functioning China that they can trade with. If China should be well functioning also in the long run, however, history shows us that the government has to give the power and freedom to its people. Actually, in many cases, the Chinese are not allowed to listen to us.... What do your country gain by ruling a nation by force that wants to be independent?? Certainly not happiness or pride?
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