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Posts posted by leecz

  1. I agree on Beijing's being huge as was vancouver's comparatively to many others.

    It is interesting how much bigger salt lakes looked compared to sydney's but in real life with was not that much taller (with sydney on mast). Sadly sydney's was much taller on the mast than it is as a fountain, as can be seen below(The best digital photo I have ever found of it):


    Because of its position on top of such a high spectator stand, Aside from beijing, sydney's was probably one of the highest cauldrons in its games position, it looked good from inside the stadium looking up the stand, but looked a bit lost from outside the stadium(Torino's I also think looked good from the inside but a bit weird on the outside.

    Athens, Beijng and Barcelona were probably aesthetically the best at this....

    Still the nicest Cauldron ever!

  2. Like I said before pjpauly2k, Leecz and I are being nitpicky and pedantic, your view is perfectly reasonable, though while I cannot speak for Leecz, I am unfortunately, not reasonable :P

    Haha I am a nostalgic and nit picky traditionalist conservative freak. :) Anyhow it's nice to see that one thing is consistent - the Olympic Flag party has worn all white all these decades. Let's hope this stays the same forever!

    You see, the beauty of ceremonies is tradition. Tradition means doing the same thing over, maybe doing it a little better, but essentially, not changing the rules - Imagine if one olympic games, they decide to do all the measurements in Imperial system just for the sake of being different? It wouldn't work! i guess it's a chicken and egg thing.

    • Like 1
  3. Good observation, Olympian, I wonder what was done in Moscow and LA? I will have to check. I am a little divided, my pure side likes the way it was done in sydney (and previously) but I did kind of like the entire fanfare/welcome followed by vice regal salute and then carrying in of the Canadian flag (a la olympic flag style) by the mounties then hoisted segment of atkin's vancouver ceremony.

    So I'm not sure how I feel, but I definitely do not like the equal height flagpoles As has been the case i think sie athens. Salt Lake i am not sure about either, I know they had the WTC flag that wasn't hoisted, I remember at the end of the anthem they hoisted an american flag but i forget it if was an equal footing. My my we are pedantic protocol freaks.........

    A good compromise is what was done in Atlanta/ Salt Lake (as Olympian had pointed out as at both games, they did raise the US Flag there). The pole was located at the separate end of the stadium far away from the Olympic Flag, and was removed post ceremonies, so that the only flag flying through the games is the Olympic Flag. Just watching the Olympic Anthem performed at Atlanta gave me goosebumps. It looks so much more majestic on TV when the Olympic Flag is on it's own.

    The main issue is the same pole height in close proximity to the Olympic Flag, and leaving the host nation's flag up through the competition. (Remember they need to 're-raise it' at the Closing Ceremony)... This seems to have started in Athens as Juso pointed out.

    Interestingly I was just checking some of Beijing's Track and Field out, and they did remove the Chinese Flagpole, only to reinstate it again at the Closing.

    After all, IMHO the Olympic Flag like the UN Flag should fly on it's own, as no nation is equal or above it?

    • Like 1
  4. I could not agree more, I wasn't going to mention the olympic flag thing as I thought I was being too nitpicky. I think the national flag equal level thing started in Athens. My purist side loved how no australian flag was even raised at the OC it was just the horseback flags and all about the olympic flag. I also think they should have had a way to keep the flag permanent and the tor dismantled around it (I actually with it would have been rather cool if they kept the tor through the athletics and used it as an unconventional podium for track a field).

    These may all just be symbols but it really bugs me how people attack you for wanting the IOC to adhere to them. Like I have said, it is such a slippery slope, if the illusion of the cauldron or flag are lost what does next, turning off the cauldron to save gas in each night of the games.

    I too welcome a return to birch style fanfares, marching bands, pomp and structure (Though DAE keep some of that spirit alive). That said it will be interesting what elements of Jack Morton and DAE style ceremonies (they have brought good fresh ideas and refinement aswell) he blends into his style in Rio.

    Love your comment about Sydney's Horseback National Anthem. Who's to say that for the Opening Ceremony National Anthem you need to 'raise a flag on a pole?' For all things that they justify about being creative year on year, this 'flag on pole' thing is certainly a step backwards in recent games!

    I'd love to see a flag flown by on helicoper (what they do at the Singapore National Parade, have a thousand kids paint the flag on their shirts as the anthem is played (like in Manchester 2002) etc... There are so many ways to get creative here, and save the only 'flag on pole' tradition for the Olympic Flag.

    If I remember correctly, for the Closing Ceremony Sydney had the national flags of Greece, Australia and Greece risen on the medal winners poles, on the opposite end of the stadium. Problem solved!

    Beijing was the most awful with four 'mega' flag poles stuck side-by-side and by the time the Olympic Flag was lowered, there was no drama or focus on that key symbol anymore.

  5. I don't quite understand your reasoning that the 2012 location is showing more people worldwide the cauldron that had it been located elsewhere (ie roofline of stadium etc). The cauldron is always a focal point of olympic broadcasts, used as cutaway footage and montage work, I don't feel that these sort of shots have been more used in london, in fact, though I also cannot prove feel that there has been far less footage of the cauldron in at least CTV's and Nine/Foxtel's coverage of these games.

    Perhaps you're suggesting that because it is at audience level you feel it is more visible in the track and field coverage? I am not sure if I would agree and would point to other comments in this thread about how hardly visible it is being blackened, low flamed and flanked by screens and crowd. The visibilty and prominence of this cauldron is quite poor when compared to track and field broadcasts of Athens and Sydney - that both had high angle shots of track events capturing the cauldron and both had great javelin shots of the cauldron and javeling flying in the foreground, environmentally friendly or not the high cylindrical flame produced by both these cauldrons (Also developed by FCT Flames) made them, IMHO far more prominent.

    Beyond intentional and in stadium shots, if the London Cauldron had been on the roof, it would have, like in every other games featured in the background of every broadcasters wide shots and in the background of BBCs skybox all the time! The external view of the olympic stadium is always one of the most viewed and enduring images of any games and the cauldron is usually a part of that. This is what usually happens and why so many people on this forum are saddened by the placement.

    Nobody is saying they want a bowl on a pole look, yet I think this statement is a little unfair, please point to an olympic cauldron that has followed the traditional bowl on a pole look since barcelona/lilihammer?

    Perhaps salt lake can be argued to hold a bowl though it was quite a unique modern spin with glass and water cooling. Maybe sydney, though it was a dish not a bowl and again was, by design a modern interpretation of a classical cauldron, and in its legacy form is definitely not a bowl on pole. I actually feel that especially in the past twelve years cauldrons have been very unique.

    Furthermore, no one (to my knowledge) on this forum disagrees with you regarding the symbolism and overall concept of the cauldron (200 nations coming together etc), but they do have a problem with scale, position and extinguishment/movement of the London cauldron.

    The very design of the london cauldron was speculated earlier in this thread and was published in a concept drawing almost as is, but alot taller so that it would have been visible. I even agree thomas heatherwick's design is beautiful and unique, but has others have said, it can be argued that it is functionally flawed design for its intended purpose. The IOC may disagree with us but that's their right.

    Like you have said, everyone is entitled to their opinion and allowed to appreciate heatherwick's design and the positioning of the cauldron in echo to 1948, however, I feel concluding that past cauldrons are all bowl's on a pole or arguing that its position in the stadium somehow makes it the most viewed cauldron are stretching it a little far...

    You are absolutely right. I'm a traditionalist right with you.

    It is a sad thing that slowly these traditions are eroding. Or they are becoming sloppy in the way it's managed or respected.

    I am so surprised that the IOC does not take a stronger stand on protecting their most sacred symbol from being extinguished mid-games, and relit unceremoniously with a 'cherry picker'. . Same thing is beginning to occur with the Olympic Flag in the main stadium. Up till Sydney 2000/ Salt Lake 2002, you'll have it raised on a flagpole by itself - always on the corner right around the 120 meter mark where the track bends. Since then, strange things have been happening such as raising the host nation's flag on a similar height pole next to the Olympic Flag, or even worse, especially in London, lowering the flag and relocating the entire pole to the opposite end of the stadium, and allowing photos of a flag-less pole to be photographed together with an extinguished cauldron.

    Now I know that the pole was located at the Thor, but if you looked at all the best ceremonies (esp. Sydney 2000), the Cauldron and the Olympic Flag Pole always took precedence over theatrics of the opening ceremony, and the set was build around these elements and when deconstructed for the main athletics event, these elements remained untouched. What is also equally shocking is how LOCOG is willing to allow photography of the flame being extinguished, flag removed from pole etc.. I would imagine that photographers should all be off limits to maintain dignity and integrity of these key symbols.

    I am afraid London has set an unfortunate precedence for the future. :(

    Thankfully Ric Birch is involved in Rio so he might finally bring back some order to the house!

    • Like 2
  6. Hi leecz,

    Another Gamesbidder - Commentator is based in Singapore as well. He had applied the tickets as well, but no response as well... :(

    Yes indeed it seems to be a terrible situation over here in singapore.

    In the past, the rights to Athens 2004 were given to a local travel agency and things went more smoothly then. This time round, the SNOC is handing it themselves... Obviously the SNOC has no clue how to go about getting the tickets, let alone have any travel packages. I applied since September last year and no word, not even a nil response from them. So much for a city that wants to host the Youth Olympics :(

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