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jim jones

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  1. well it is good to see the roof back up but i would think they would replace prior to the games as it is risky at best considering the age of the roof and that is going to be pasts its life cycle rating. Summer of 2009 I would think would be the best time with construction crews coming off jobs for venues . MR x. was there any plans to replace the roof prior to the games ? jim jones
  2. well red dog even in new york you do have a certain amount of buildings that dont make a grand flashing statement but are very functional. Many of Frank Lloyd Wrights buildings really melded into the environment they were placed and it is the small details that dont hit you in the face from ten miles on a clear day that speak to his genius. The johnson wax building is a good example of a building that FLR designed and does not seem like much when you see it. Go inside and the lily pad columns and roofing are incredible. jim jones
  3. There will be no Embarrassment at all MR X. because what Winnipeg has on paper with that design cant be made for 145 million in the current climate of stadium construction. Until you see it in 3 years with the same price tag then you can believe it. David Asper is living in fantasy land or is not being told the truth by his consultants who may also be misinformed. The only stadium I have seen that has keep it original price for estimate in the last decade of a design comparable is the university of phoenix dome where the arizona cardinals play. They estimated half a billion and that is what it turned out to be. Now with the debacle that is the new wembley stadium every single construction company with any common sense is not getting into set construction price agreements and prices are escalating at 6.5 percent per year. I would save take a cue from the BMO stadium in Toronto which is 20,000 seats at 80 million and then double that price for 40,000 seats and then double that for fancy structural steel and roof work and you could up with 320 million before you are at 6.5 percent over 3 years of construction just for a starting point let alone a cost estimate. At the current rate of construction inflation you are looking at the good part of 60 million a year in inflation from the realistic price of 320 million which I believe is still low. a grand total of 500 million dollars is not out of the question considering the Newark Arena for the new jersey devils is now estimated to cost that much for 18,000 seats. Considering the MTS Centre in Winnipeg was built for 135 million in 2004 for a 15000 seat arena without a complex design David Asper should walk down the street and see a similiar place with half the capacity of the building he is proposing that costs about what his consultants are estimating. The construction industry is going to avoid a Multiplex vs the Wembley stadium authority court battle and the price of steel, concrete and everything else for a client will be passed onto the client himself. Labour is also specialized or a stadium and is very much in its highest demand for stadium and arena construction. We just don't see it in canada because we don't build stadiums and arenas at the rate other places in the world do. It is not only the drain on labour world wide by the historic levels of new construction it is also the boom with construction in every sector everywheres. jim jones
  4. Yeah you can have a great deal of human error when you are near or exceeding the life cycle of the roof material. Classsic blame the guy on the controls because a government agency and its executive haven't seen fit to replace the roof. The dakota ome they felt 20 years was the lifespan not 25 and replaced their roof with steel. With the commerical future become dimmer for bc place with a convention centre opening up and a football team in a league in decline the prospects or BC place become fewer. I am sure we will see human error again in the years before the games LOL. Next time the human error will be the guy incharge who are pushing the roofs liefcycle beyond the makers rating at the end of 2008. jim jones
  5. man mr x They are going to tear it down and sell it to developers lock stock and barrell. The gastown stadium proposal will be the replacement and the BC lions dont need a 60,000 seat stadium. they do about 30,000 and there is the new convention centre on the water front for basically a stadium would have one tennant who is only doing 30,000 people a game . The money they would get from developers would probably build the new stadium at the gastown site. The olympics will be the last ha rah. OH by the way the glass concourse thing around bc place , your estimate is low considering the miami dolphins stadium is costing 250 million to do similair work . jim jones
  6. Heres the study for dakota dome which was designed by the same architects as bc place http://www.sdbor.edu/publications/PressRel...0DakotaDome.htm the cost of the new steel roof was to be 6 million dollars according to the university. It is of course a smaller building but you have the same principals with the concrete probably having to be both very strong is tension and compression with the fabric roof . With a steel roof you are going to reduce tension loads because fabric acts like a sail thus creating tension but you will increase compression loads because of the added weigh. Who knows filling in the mechanical rooms for th blowers for the room would probably add material to counter compression load. a perminant steel roof has been done in with the same architect's design for a roofing system i am cure they didnt just design for a fabric roof. BC place went beyond the life cycle of the roof and that is the real problem . jim jones
  7. Mr X. I don't think wind alone is the problem. Since the construction of BC Place you have had the construction of some major condo towers and that alters wind patterns. Wind shear and micro bursts were cited for a report I saw and that is very likely with the newer construction around that building. There is another dome of the same roof material and design that they had a unique solution to an aging roof. The Dakota Dome replaced the fabric with a steel dome for a very simple reason. The roof was getting near the 25 year expected life of the fabric and a steel roof would give them 65 years of life. The foundation was there with the stadium bowl so they just removed the fabric and replaced with steel superstructure. With the new convention center you are looking at the revenues for BC place going away and the BC Lions and the occasional rock show may not be enough to justify a new roof. They will replace and th panels and hope than it gets them thru the olympics. Jim Jones
  8. I have the feeling Mr. X someone screwed up with the controls . The video I saw had air streaming out of the opening and if that is a controlled intensioned deflation it seemed very dramatic to be honest. With the record of service for this facility which I believe includes the construction that did not have massive cost overruns BC Place is still a very good venue. And Yes an air suspended roof can have that type of load capacity . the outside elements and the roof materail itself are probably a great load bearing factor on the roof then the sound system and lighting. jim jones
  9. Interesting education on these roof systems. I have read conflicting things like the roof is 25 years old which I cant imagine. Then the carrier dome in syracuse used to deflate their dome between events because to the heavy lake effect snow they would get. In the 1990's they replaced their roof with one that melts snow and ice as it falls on the roof. I did not know BC place had the same system. Mr. X even if there was an event early on with BC Place which I recall happening it is not an condemming of the system. THe olympic stadium in montreal is a huge mistake. With that was spent on that building all the major cities of canada could have had a BC place civic stadium and 23 years later we would still be into a go system which The Toyko Dome/Carrier/Silver/RCA/ humprey metrodome all are. The roger centre though working very well for function had its share of cost overruns. The Silver dome model is the Cookie cutter design of domed stadiums and it has worked very well despite an incident like this. jim jones
  10. Hasnt the roof been replaced once in the 23 year history of BC Place ???? I think there was a deflation early in the buildings history and normal wear and tear on the roof would not have a wise compnay go much beyond 15 years I would think. If Mr. X is right the roof was scheduled to be fitted out because of the games then the problem is only temporary. Certainly would not be wise to have the original roof in place for the 2010 games which would make the roof 27 years old. It is certainly nowheres near a breaker for the 2010 games. They can insert the new panel probably in a couple of weeks and then look at the condition of the entire roof which I am sure they do with the ongoing operational of the stadium. It is a very very minor set back for the Pavco people themselves with a highly proven roof system that is in japan, indianapolis,minneapolis, pontiac michigan,syracuse new york and other places. Many of which have had events like this between long periods of good service. jim jones
  11. The pontiac silver dome had a colaspe as well with the same type of air supported system and I believe the Carrrier dome in upstate New York had the same thing happen . The metrodome/carrierdome/bc place/ silverdome/ indianapolis dome design is very sound from an engineering standpoint. Considering Bc place has been open since 1983 the people of bc and vancouver have been well served with a proven roof system used in other places. You take every stadium in north america of the bc place roof design and stack the construction cost together and you still would not match the eventual cos of the big owe. BC place was 138 million canadian dollars a far cry from 1.5 billion the big owe cost and even the 310 million the estimated cost was in 1974 to the 770 million is was said to cost in 1976 to the 900 million is cost in 1991. The Big Owe is a failed experiment and just the costs of fabric roofs of the big owe cost as much as the entire bc place to construct. The design or even the concept of cable suspended fabric roof for a stadium was not attmepted again and probably never will be because of montreal. BC place could lose money like all stadiums basically do in real terms but it has not driven its main tennant out of the building and certainly doesnt have the population in fear of entering the building wondering if a 65 ton piece of concrete will fall on them . With Fabric roofs you are going to have some much the technology can do when it is desgined at a certain point in time. The canada palce building also operated by PAVCO I Beleive is a different technology and I have not heard a report this week of trouble with that roof. Canada palce came 2 years after BC Place. jom jones
  12. It certainly was a masterpeace but the Mona Lisa does not cost the people of paris 20 million a year and have the possibility of killing someone with a 65 ton peice of concrete that fell in a concourse level of the olympics stadium in 1991. I loved the olympic stadium as well it certainly was a great peice of art but the art has to function , be safe and be viable. I was in my teens at the time and I thought that the olympic stadium would be filled for every game for decades but the hang over from the party came quickly and people in montreal had to be concerned with either A. paying the huge tax bill B. moving to ontario as the PQ came into power making life for the english unbearable C. following the jobs for corporate head quarters that left ontario post games and because of the PQ coming to power. The PQ mandated it law that you could only speak french on a jobsite or in an office beleive it or not. With that the economy went down hill and entertainment with sports in montreal as well. You dont have the corporations in quebec you used to and meribel airport was another white elephant victim of the games. Personally I think you have to get rid of the damm stadium to throw the bad luck out of the city. It may be a unique futuristic building to look at but the future is passing it by fast. It just doesnt not have a purpose or a use. The stadium was not the attractor of people to the city it was the factor that drove them away to live other places. jim jones
  13. delhi has to get on with the task at hand and bring their stadium construction company back from Guyanna. They are wanting to host the Asian games in 2014 and the talk is 2016 for the olympics???? They have to actually get a modern fire department from what I saw on TV the other night. The course Delhi is wanting to take it like that of seoul south korea but they dont seem to be organized the way the koreans are. Not pulling thru on the commonwealth games would have problems down the road for an olympic bid even if it is 2020. Doha Qatar is in much better shape and a new territory could be host for the summer olympics. The Arab middle east with also the first muslim nation to host. The Gulf States have the money and organizational skills to do it. jim jones
  14. Well if you consider 20 million a year in maintenance, 6 million a year for 24 years on the latest failing version of the fabric roof and that the 20 million dollar maintanence fee will go up with the age of the stadium and inflation it is no wonder the city of montreal refuses to take over the stadium unless the province of quebec pays the expenses. The Fina world Aquatics Championships didnt even use the olympic swimming pool according to wikipedia. New Facilites had to be built on Isle de Notre Dame. Controlled Demolition is doing things for bring down buildings that you cannot beleive could happen . In las vegas they are the kings and one tower of the Desert Inn was taken down that was taller then the wing they wanted to keep up . On one side one side of the tower to come down was a bar from another property owner that was left unhurt with a 12 story building coming down beside it. The seperation between the wing to be take down and the wing to be keep intact was perfect and those two building were attached. The aladian casino was brought down that the ruble was taken away for 2 million dollars. The kingdome in seattle had more volume of concrete and steel then the olympic stadium and Controlled Demolition brought it down. The clearances to buildings that could be damaged in montreal are greater then some of the implosions Controlled Demolition has done in the past. The Pie-IX subway station has enclosed walkways to the stadium and is further then many things controlled Demolition has had to deal with. The green line does not run underneath the stadium , it runs closer to Pierre de Coubertin Boulivard then the stadium. If the chinesse were informed I am sure they would tear apart the stadium just for the scrap steel as they are in global searches for raw materials to keep their steel mills running. All of the steel from ships torn apart in India and bangladish go to chinesse stell mills to be reproceeded into new steel. It is like you have a building which no one will occupy because of a bad rap. As a private business will you maintain a building no one will buy or rent??? You bring down the building to either redevelope or sell to an another company. I you dont maintain it is a liability and if you do maintain it is off your bottom line. Even if the cost was 100 million to bring it down you are going to spend that anyways in 5 years for a building you can only presently use 8 monthes of the year. and you have no longterm tennant or anyone interested in becoming a longtern tennant. Better to cut your losses that will continue in the future and will increase with absolutely no return. The thing is with the NFL they are waiting until the CFL colapses if it does and then move into Toronto and maybe Vancouver . The NBA made that move north and vancouver got the NBA despite being a smaller centre. The key was Vancouver had an ownership group where montreal's business elite have been burnt on sport franchise ownership . The NBA also probably knew that competting with the montreal canadains NHL franchise is part of what lead to the expos , alouettes ,concorde, and maniac downfalls. It is hard to complete with the Yankees of Professional Hockey and Montreals impatience with teams that dont win championships is well documented. When you have a team that has won over twenty percent of the stanley cups in the history of the game it is hard for a foriegn sport to compete. The NFL knows that and they would refuse to occupy the stadium anyways it would be their second oldest in real terms. jim jones
  15. Well anything you do whether it is taking the tower out , the concrete and steel sections off the roof, put a perminant static fabirc roof in the open it all costs multi million dollars and you still dont have a tennant or a possibllity of one. THe NFL will never come to montreal to occupy the olympic stadium . Corporate suites , club seating and other things the olympic stadium doesnt have will certainly prevent it. Toronto will get a franchise not Montreal. Toronto has the NBA and major league baseball. The money locally for montreal will not come from the Bronfmans they have had their share of financial losses with both the expos and the montreal concorde CFL team. The NFLs priority is to get a franchise back into LA or Anahiem and so far it has been 10 years since the NFL has been absent form the second largest tv market in the united states . Then you have interests in toronto with proven track records for sports franchise sucess courting the NFL. Ted Rogers may get the franchise but he is not going to want a canadian franchise competting with him a couple hundred miles up the road. The NFL would take into account what either city has done with major sports. Montreal Lost their major league baseball team and had a revolving door of onwership and financial troubles, their CFL teams have come and gone out of the city with similiar results and reasons. Toronto , the CFL Argos still there never had to move, have had different owners and financial troubles but basically in tact. Toronto Blue Jays never moved to another city and have had different ownership groups. Toronto Raptors owned by the same people from day one ,successful at the box office despite sharing a new building with one of the most successful NHL franchises financial who happen to also own the Toronto Raptors. Yes it is a piece of art but it killed Montreal CFL teams twice and was on the verge of killing the Alouettes a second time , two soccer teams couldnt make it and lead to major league baseball eventually buying the expos and put them into the list with the minnesota twins for contraction of the league. It was so bad that the last owner john larrie was bought out in the league in exchange that he would purchase the florida marlins. There has yet to be a city outside of the united states that has had any major league franchise returned to their city after losing it to an american city. Quebec Nordeque- went to Colorado, Winnipeg Jets -went to phoenix, Vancouver Grizzles -went to Memphis, Montreal Expos -went to Washington DC. No replacement franchises have come north of the broader and no new sports have come across to a city after it has lost a major sports franchise for an america based league. With the united states it is very different Houston lost the NFL oilers to Tennessee, Charlotte lost the Hornets to New Orleans, Balitmore lost the Colts to Indianapolis, Oakland lost the Raiders to LA, New Orleans lost the Jazz to Utah, Cleveland lost the Browns to Balitmore. All these cities and more in the states have lost teams and regained new franchises. The core problem is you have no tennant and next to nil possiblity of a tennant. It is ironic that the baltimore stallions went into the big owe after the former aloulettes and the montreal concorde had both went bankrupt. The aloulettes mark II (the renamed baltimore stalions) went into the olympic stadium and were on the course to financial ruin until a very odd event happened. THe irish rock band U2 had the olympic stadium for the date that the Aloulettes would have to play for the eastern conference final. So the eastern conference final was played in the Mc Gill university stadium Prevical Molson Memorial Stadium. The aloulettes sold out Molson Stadium at 20,000 and have every games since 1998. The debate with the neighboors for the montreal aloulettes is the desire by the team and the university to expand Precival Molson Stadium shows football that the olympic stadium is not a place the population supports football beyond 2 or 3 games a year. It is funny to think that Bono Saved the Montreal Alouettes and for that the team plays Sunday Bloody Sunday as they run onto the field for home games. Sometimes things have to be torn down so the past can be put behind a city. 20 million in maintanence a year is what this building costs and the province of quebec wants to unload it on the taxpayers of montreal. The city is refusing. The city council knows there is no hope for financial viability for the big owe even when it is given to them debt free. I can see two stadiums coming down in the next 10 years in canada . Montreals olympic stadium and BC place. That will be two stadiums with olympic events happening inside them as BC Place will be used for the opening and closing ceremonies of the 2010 winter games jim jones
  16. The roof fabric would never come into the tower at all let alone be completely sheltered . The kelvar roof ripped in the retracted position and in the covering position. It would rip with a high wind or bad rain storm. THe blind faith that was put in this architect was unreal. They actually had seats that were rated for indoor arenas believing the stadium complete with retractable roof complete. in 1991 they replaced lower bowl seats because the originals were crap from weather exposure. Of course is wasnt for 11 years after the 1976 games and there was a season that fabric number one had to be taken down and a new solution found. In 1993 they replaced the kevlar roof with teflon and 6 years later that roof had the rip that had the montrel auto show with injuried workers and the auto show moved to the molson centre from then on. Retracting the roof made the situation worse exposing the fabric as a loose sail. Remember this fabric was the same stuff bulletproof vests are made of. KEVLAR. This architect has gone on to design other stadiums yet he never tried the same trick again. UM wonder why .Yeah no wonder the first experiment with the suckers in canada failed totally LOL. the fabric weighed 130,000 pounds for the kevlar. You also have to consider the apex of the roof was 171 feet from the playing surface and the top of the tower was 574 feet tall or 6 feet taller then the washington monument. Go up on the outside of a 574 foot building even on a calm day and it will be windy . You have a downtown not far away with 5 buildings taller then the tower on the big owe and those would disrupt wind flow . then there is all the other buildings in montreal . Then you have interferance with the stadium tower itself . When this white elephant was designed wind studies were not done , There was not autocad computer drafting and engineering. So it ws blind faith with no prior project like it drafted with pencil and paper on drafting tables. A fabric roof now is tested to the dynamics that act on the roof in the environment it is too be placed. If there are problems it isnt an experiement . you find the problem on a autocad program and adjust your design to solve the problem before you construct. The Tower had to be re engineered as it was good that the rush to complete the stadium ended without the tower being complete. It was found that if they had of built the tower with concrete completely it would have most likely colapsed into the field at any random moment. The upper part of the twoer was completes with steel and stuccoed. This was how bad the design was. A lovely piece of art that is a disaster commerial, functionally and from every other imaginable stand point. The concept seemed simple for a guy from france but the old saying is baffle them with BS applies here. This guy would come to montreal and present every excuse of why the roof would not work . He blamed everyone but himself. The blame was clear the architect from france and the mayor of montreal who let him do it. 15 million was thieberts fee and a percentage of the final cost. Too me he should have paid the province back 15 million for engineering folly that cost 2 billion dollars including interest. here look for yourself http://archives.cbc.ca/IDC-1-41-1316-7926/...ic_games/clip12 It is very comically how anyone who lived in montreal could defend the olympic stadium using in the same breath the Effiel Tower. The sports writer at the end of the clip was right . Emplode it and sell the peices at 5 dollars a piece and had a 10 dollar a ticket lottery with the winner pressing the button No one is going to occupy that stadium. The liability is too much and the building is outdated. A couple of fifa u 20 matches next year and maybe if it doesnt snow heavy the grey cup will be played in the olympic stadium. jim jones
  17. The retractable roof with any material that is fabric will not be able to perform because the design is totally fawled. As a cartoonist in montreal said about the model used to sell the concept and I paraphrase him . "basically tissue paper and rubber bands was the retractable roof cover in the model" . They have tried kevlar, they have tried teflon. And I believe the same material that is on the denver airport terminal building for the roof there was the replacement for the version three of the big owe roof. The material works great in other places. It is the french architect who was wrong with the application of the products. Roof fabric Three they are talked about replacing all ready 7 years in because of structural defects that are now showing. That roof was to be financed for 30 years at 6 million a year. The fire marshall will not permit events while snow load is on the roof. You can have statically positioned fabric roofs which work very well for many years in many places but a retractable fabric roof with a dynamic load position is asking for problems. You have wind loads, snow loads to deal with and engineering is the key with autocad lifecycle modeling and refinement of a design but that works with statically placed roof systems only. The tension can not be controlled absolutely 100 percent of the time with a roof fabric in the thiebert design. That is the problem . Steel Cables supporting a large piece of fabric from above allows too much movement to keep the fabric from breaking down in the conditions. All retractable roof systems today are a kin to bridge making not sailboats. almost all are steel sheeting on steel trussing with the one exception being reliant stadium in houston inwhich the roof in stretched fabric over a steel frame system. Tension is needed for wind resistance and the tension has to come from a couple of places . The montreal olympic stadium is a failed attempt to push the bounds of engineering that was directed from the mind of a mad french architect. The same company that put the origin fabric roof on the big owe has many sucessfiul installations world wide. All are static and involve steel beams and steel cables on the inside for support. The Denver International Airport is four years older then the current olympic stadium roof in montreal and it is not having the engineering wear . THe Canada place fabric roof is much the same as denvers international airports roof but it was installed before the 1986 expo . As static perminent roofs fabric is proving it is a great media. AS a dynamic structure it is great or the americas cup sailboat races and the is about it. Jim Jones
  18. Believe me joining the british commonwealth for dominca hasnt seemed to raised that place. Ironically a dockside development in Roseau was funded by the japanese government and is in bad repair. The worst hell hole I have been in . Martinque a french colony close by is nicer. If you can avoid Dominica avoid it . In fact you have to go ou o your way to visit so dont make the efford. Roseau is a hell on earth. jim jones
  19. The thing is with the debate of funding a vancouver winter games at what level does it become a losing deal for all? If you look at Stephen Harpers point of view representing a calgary riding he would probably think that enoughs enough at the point of vancouver having the same ammount of federal funding as calgary 1988 with inflation from 1988 to 2006 factored in . The PM is an economist and they dont see the fuzzy logic and good feelings that an olympics or any other games have. Vancouver will be back at Mr. Harpers door for operations costs, additional security costs and cost overruns from the municipal units that have had facilites downloaded in their budgets. To me after vancouver is done the government of canada should have a ban on any international sport festivals for atleast 40 years. A summer olympics , two winter olympics , two commonwealth games, a Pan Am games in the space of 40 years is enough. Finish the vancouver games and call it a day for canada for a while. A summer games in Toronto or Halifax is just foolish regionism. jim jones
  20. The biggest lose for torino was for NBC and the bath they took in the Ratings. considering the Bejing/Torino deal is about 1 billion you could see the end of TV deals for sporting events if Bejing does not pull NBC into the number position for the broadcast times. Sponsorship will also be effected too Jim Jones.
  21. well as to stadium replacement I think replacing the roof would be the best course and updating some of the infrastructure. With seat replacement I would say the lower bowl would be the place to replace as the upper bowl is hardly used in regular season lions games. As far at looks of the building I really dont see what the problem is. Yes you have a concrete structure with a fibreglass roof but some things could be done look wise. With a new roof you could think of a fabric facade much like the Pusan Korea stadium used for the world cup in 2002 or the treatment that the alianz stadium in Germany has. lighting those panels as is done in germany would be great. A stadium is basically a stadium is a stadium. Yuo cant get too far away from function and to get intom the fast cycle of stadium replacement that they have in the united states here in canada is foulish. Renovation is the key as structurally you have a building that could be used for another 50 years with maintenance. I am sure there will be some upgrading of BC place with the opening and closing ceremonies in 2010. A jumbotron would be good to add on one end as I found it strange that only one end had a screen. jim jones
  22. Well A free stadium as far as the taxpayer goes is very good. Certainly in a great location ofr mass transit. I know the press of the new convention centre down the shore from canada place is for a media centre but I am could have seen that expensive curtailed for the winter games by holding the opening ceremonies outdoors (maybe this new stadium would have been the place) and BC place being the media centre. All sports festivals seem bring out piggy back spending that is sometimes questionable. Perhaps some inovative thought process could have preented the cost overruns which are now about to be looked at by the feds. jim jones.
  23. well considering that BC Place is to be used for the opening and closing ceremonies it is not as big a deal for renovations in that buildings as say pacific colusium. Covering of posts in the mezanine levels is not a big deal compared to renovations to the PC that will have to be done for competition. I somehow wonder why BC Place couldnt have a second purpose during the games. Not much as far as revenue generation for new consessions during the games. BC Place could use a scoreboard/jumbotron at one end of the stadium. I found that odd when I went to the Lions home opener last year. Finally some sense in the ice hockey venue. It is totally stupid to expand the ice surface 12 feet in width for a short time when all the players for the international teams play on the NHL surface for a living. I think the NHL probably said look this is unreasonable, the olympics puts our stars at risk and you want to alter the ice surface of an NHL arena that these guys play in anyways?. The increased revenues are something the organizers should be thinking about as well. If you are lloking at virgin facilites like you did with torino then build to the international standard. jim jones
  24. new zealand it looks like will not bid on the CWG's ever again either. Trevor Mallard the minsiter of sport had a report commissioned in 2004 on the viability of holding a CWG's by christchurch 1974 chair Sir Ron Scott. The conclusion is that the games are far too expesive for New Zealand. operating costs they estimate are 555 million NZ dollars and that the games would be in the order of 1.5 billion Nz dollars to host. The study was to see if biding on 2014 would be possible for new zealand. The games will probably not be around by 2018 let alone 2022 especially if Abuja is not awarded for 2014. The franchise fees are burning host cities like manchester who could not sell merch rights to any major retailers in great britian in 2002 and the committee had to set up 4 committee owned stores in the greater manchester area. The trademark rights are 40 million us dollar fee to the federation for a product of no value. Kerry Packers is quoted in 2003 to have said that his channel nine network would lose 50 million au dollars on being the host broadcaster. the rights and production costs where 70 million au dollars in 2003 value. the commonwealth games are costing what a montreal olympics did but without a worldwide audinece and no major network tv deal in the most important territories of western europe or the united states. At that price and the highway robbery for value the federation really has to think about how they are running out of places to fork over 2 billion for very little in actual commerical value. Paying 80 million us between tv rights and merch rights with the upper limited of possible return of being 10 million does tend to get around the world IE Calgary bailing on the dometic bid for canada in 2014. jim jones
  25. canada never again as halifax looks like a bunch of morons chasing a promise that would never have to be kept by the former liberal prime minister Paul Martin. Hamilton is making too big a stink and paid the price for the mud raking with the 2003 bid . The City of Markham council rejected funding the domestic bid even for their 15,000 dollar canadian share in the york region council. The CBC is rumuored to have to be paid to broadcast a Daily hi-lites show by the organizers of the 2006 CWG's. Nigeria will win over a pathetic attempt in Halifax to leverage federal money for a staduim without a tenant on the back of a sports event . The federal government landscape has changed with the election of a conservative government in canada. Our new prime minister is an economist from the very riding of Calgary West which with the second most profitable mutli sports games in the history of mankind rejected the CWG franchise siting the costs were too high for too few benefits. Calgary and the Province of Alberta have first hand knowledge of the CWG franchise and turned thumbs down on an encore to Edmonton 1978. With a 7.5 billion dollar budget surplus alberta could fund the last 3 commonwealth games and the montreal olympics. With what they made in surplus last year because of high energy prices alberta could fund every single commonwealth games but They dont even care to entertain that thought 3 months before the domestic bid is awarded and they pull out. jim jones
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