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Everything posted by Triffle

  1. Melbourne is positioned stupendously to host an Olympic Games on short notice. Indeed, the only major piece of infrastructure absent from the city's illustrious portfolio of sports venues is a major aquatics arena. Virtually every sport on the Olympic programme could already be accommodated by existing infrastructure, as exemplified by the following hypothetical plan: If Melbourne were to bid, undoubtedly the constituent cluster used for the Games would be the Melbourne Sports and Entertainment Precinct, situated directly south-east of the city's central grid. The venue plan for this vast precinct may look something like this: · Melbourne Cricket Ground, existing, capacity of 100,000: Hosts Ceremonies, Rugby 7's, Athletics, start/finish of the Marathons and the Men's Football Final · Rod Laver Arena (within National Tennis Centre), existing, 15,000: Artistic Gymnastics, Trampolining and Basketball Finals · Hisense Arena (within National Tennis Centre), existing, 10,500: Basketball preliminaries, Tennis (week 2, centre court for last 6 days of competition) · Margaret Court Arena (within National Tennis Centre), existing, 7,500: Tennis (week 2, centre court for first 3 days of competition), Rhythmic Gymnastics · Other show-courts (within National Tennis Centre), existing: Tennis · New outdoor show-court (part of further hypothetical expansions of National Tennis Centre), 7-10,000, Beach Volleyball · Melbourne Rectangular Stadium, existing, 32,000: Hockey · Re-acquisition of an AFL oval within the Olympic Park precinct for the temporary training track · The roads surrounding the nearby Royal Botanical Gardens precinct (opposite side of the river to the sports precinct) could host the Road Cycling Races The Melbourne Convention and Exhibition Centre consists of the largest pillarless floor space in the Southern Hemisphere (with albeit halted plans for further expansion), making it conducive to hosting multiple Olympic disciplines simultaneously (which it did at the Commonwealth Games). It is located directly opposite the city's central grid on the south side of the river. · Temporary Hall 1: Wrestling and Judo · Temporary Hall 2: Handball · Temporary Hall 3: Boxing · Plenary Hall: Weightlifting To the immediate west of the city's central grid is Docklands, a vast area which has undergone urban renewal for the past 20 years. Development will continue in the nearby areas of Fisherman's Bend and the E-Gate precinct. · Docklands Stadium, existing, 56,000: Football. (This stadium will need to be the primary venue for the AFL season, so it may not be suitable even for Football (playing surface)). · The E-Gate precinct is a vast unused space to the immediate north-west of the city’s central grid that is slated for redevelopment in the coming decade. The current plan is to transform it into a medium-high density suburb accommdating10,000 residents. Sports facilities (recreational) are likely to be constructed within the precinct. The area is 10 minute walk from the city’s central grid and adequately serviced by public transport connections due to its proximity to North Melbourne Station (key hub). For an Olympic bid in the near future, it would be logical to use this possible residential area as the Athlete’s Village immediately after completion. A major recreational sports centre could be established within the site to service the north-western suburbs (MSAC is relatively difficult to access from the north of the Yarra), as the growth of Melbourne may lead to demand for such a facility. It could consist of an aquatic hall with temporary seating for 15,000-20,000, to host Swimming, Water Polo Finals and Diving. · New permanent velodrome to replace the part-time arrangement at Hisense Arena. The venue could be situated within the E-Gate precinct or Fisherman's Bend. Track Cycling The World Heritage listed Royal Exhibition Building in the Carlton Gardens is located immediately north of the city's central grid. The building was used during the 1956 Olympics · Fencing, Taekwondo The Melbourne Sports and Aquatics Centre is a large recreational and training facility located in Albert Park (home to the Australian F1 GP racing circuit) around 25 minutes walk south of the city. An Olympics would likely attract investment to this facility, with perhaps a new indoor arena redeveloped (replacing the existing arena which is undersized). · Outdoor roofed pool, existing, 3,000 (capacity can be increased to 12,000): Water Polo preliminaries, Synchronized Swimming and Modern Pentathlon (swimming component) · Table Tennis Hall, existing (with temporary seating): Table Tennis and Modern Pentathlon (Fencing component) · Badminton Hall, existing (with temporary seating): Badminton · Indoor arena, new, 10,000 (reduced to say 5,000 post Games): Indoor Volleyball · Lakeside Stadium (neighbouring venue), existing, 12,000: Archery and Modern Pentathlon (running component) · F1 racing track (through picturesque parkland): Road Walks St Kilda is a historic suburb located by Port Phillip Bay, 10-15 minute drive south of the city’s central grid. This area would likely be used as a hub for outdoor “free” events. · Triathlon · Start/Finish Road Cycling Time Trials (route south along Beach Rd) · Sailing Around 10-15 minute drive north of the city’s central grid is a precinct of world class facilities suitable to host the equestrian events. · Flemington Racecourse, 130,000, existing: Eventing · Royal Melbourne Showgrounds Main Arena, 4,300 (easily expandable with temporary seating): Show-jumping, Eventing and Modern Pentathlon (show-jumping component) Other sports would need to be hosted in outer suburbs or regional areas. · Melbourne International Shooting Club (Port Melbourne), existing: Pistol and Air Rifle Shooting and Modern Pentathlon (shooting component) · Melbourne Gun Club (Lilydale), existing: Clay Target Shooting · Royal Melbourne Golf Club (Black Rock), existing (ranked in the top 10 golf courses in the world): Golf · Lysterfield Park (Dandenong), existing: Mountain Cycling · Werribee Park National Equestrian Centre (Werribee): Dressage With only minor redevelopments to existing infrastructure (some of which are likely to occur in the coming decades anyway (further expansions to the National Tennis Centre)) and the addition of temporary seating to halls and exhibition spaces, this plan accommodates almost every discipline on the Olympic programme. It does, however, necessitate the construction of three major sports venues: a new velodrome (the capacity at Hisense Arena is insufficient for an Olympics), an additional aquatic centre (the capacity at MSAC is insufficient for an Olympics) and a rowing and canoeing centre.
  2. Ahhh that makes more sense. if a sport is voted off, I would doubt they'd subsequently by the selected 28th sport; I would imagine the IOC would favour something shiny and new. I hope that won't be the system indefinitely because it seems like it could evolve into removing sports for no justifiable reason other than to add something new.
  3. Have I got this right? Is the IOC selecting 25 core sports for the 2020 Olympics, and then I assume the 3 excluded plus new sports will compete for the final 3 places??? In which case, ignoring personal preference, what sports will most likely be outside the core list?
  4. + could add London too, I don't think they had previously bidded post the 1948 Games?
  5. No that massively over simplifies the issue and some of your suggestions are totally impractical. The MCC's position is virtually irrelevant because although they are responsible for the management of the venue, the MCG is actually owned by the Victorian Government. The key stakeholders in this hypothetical situation are the State Government and the AFL, the major tenants. The Vic Government cannot simply say to the AFL that "the MCG will be unavailable in 2024 and that's all there is to it" because the AFL has as much clout in this city as the Catholic Church did in Rome during the Middle Ages. Without the AFL's blessing, an Olympic bid coming to fruition (let alone being successful) would never eventuate. Its a fallacy to suggest that Victoria have plenty of stadiums (for AFL). We don't. The state is home to 10 of the 18 AFL clubs and yet only 3 grounds exist now which are suitable for AFL; which is because of the AFL's ground rationalization policy of the 1980s/90s (which i support). Remove the MCG and we have just 2 venues, 1 of which most clubs would refuse to play home home games at as its located in Geelong. Even with moving matches interstate, it would still effectively work out to 7 clubs sharing the one venue. Whitten Oval and Coburg City Oval, along with any other suburban venue you may tout, are simply not AFL venues and would never be accepted by the AFL as alternate venues. Redevelopment/restoration is certainly not a simple matter for these venues as it would be in the order of hundreds of millions of dollars to bring them up to sufficient standards for the competition. The only possible alternative would be Princes Park, but with a current capacity of just over 20,000, it too would require a huge redevelopment (i.e to double current capacity). And then there is the issue of lost capacity. The MCG's capacity is 100,000 and in 2011 featured 16 matches of over 70,000 in attendance. The city's second stadium can accommodate only 55,000, too small for the blockbuster matches and impractical for a Grand Final. in the 1990s Waverley Park still existed and had a capacity for 77,000, so losing the MCG for an extended period would have been far better facilitated than what it is now. I would like to know how long a stadium would need to be vacated before an Olympic Games to install an athletics track and prepare the venue??????? I would guestimate maybe 3 months (?). So perhaps with an Olympics in mid September, the AFL could bring the season forward 3-4 weeks to begin the start of March AND experiment with an 18 round competition (which is regularly suggested in the media as the desirable length of the season for fairness). This would see the Grand Final played around the first weekend of August. So perhaps the MCG could be available for the first 12 rounds, enough opportunity to host all the blockbuster matches. The last 6 rounds would see more Geelong home games and interstate home games for Vic clubs, while Docklands would be Melbourne's solitary venue. Docklands would have to be Melbourne's finals venue (the only serious problem with this plan) while the MCC could release the AFL from its contract in order for the Grand Final to be played in Sydney at ANZ Stadium. Plus the AFL would be sufficiently compensated and problem solved. IF the venue would need to be vacated much earlier (say 6 months) then that is far more hazardous.
  6. Because the AFL did not rely on the MCG to the extent that it does now. Its thrown all the eggs into 1 basket in a way.
  7. Obviously won't win and a bid won't materialize either, but its interesting to consider the issue of an Olympic Stadium. The MCG is of course the iconic heart of Melbourne and would popularly be preferred by the public to be the Olympic Stadium. But the Olympics would have to be held in September in Melbourne, which is the traditional timeslot of the AFL finals. The solution for the 2000 Olympics was to simply bring the season forward so the finals were done by September and the MCG was thus vacant for the soccer tournament. But if the MCG was to be the Olympic Stadium, the venue would need to be vacant for months in advance of the Games to prepare an athletics track. The MCG would therefore have to be unavailable for a large portion or perhaps an entire season of the AFL, which is an extremely problematic situation because of the AFL's massive reliance on that venue. Its completely impractical actually, unless the Government were to build an entirely new stadium. I anyway would be very interested to see how they'd address this.
  8. I'm tipping Brazil will shake up the status quo for the world's top 10 sporting powers (US, GB, France, Germany, Italy, Russia, China, Korea, Japan, Australia) in the medium term future. I feel as though Brazilians have had a larger presence at the Games in finals than I've previously noticed, perhaps that's just been a fluke. even if they're not converting to more medals yet, I think Brazil has the right formula to become a sporting power over the next couple decades.
  9. Maybe they should reform Modern Pentathlon to be a competition involving an event or element of every other sport on the programme. Or perhaps make it a a competition with 16 events- one for each day- maybe including a run, a throw and a jump plus 13 events from other disciplines. Other that or cut it. *Either, not other.
  10. Sorry rols i was being sarcastic to cover myself thats exactly my point. There's only 8 Olympic bids to be decided for the next 40 years; and with 1 already pencilled in for the USA (which i think is far more likely than Canada) i doubt there would be 2 in North America. If there is a second, well it wouldnt come until the end of the 40 years anyway But there doesnt need to be many options. Only 1 maybe 2 more Olympics will be awarded to the Americas in the next 40 years. So reserving 1 for the USA, then there only needs to be one other viable candidate to at least terminate the inevitability of Toronto hosting. Thats absolutely right for the forseeable future. But by the 2040's, there could be and probably will be many more viable hosts. Mexico and Brazil are forecasted to be among the 5 richest countries in the world by 2050; so perhaps Guadalajara could provide a strong alternative. But IMO, Buenos Aires must be the strongest chance of hosting the next Latin American Games and if Rio is adjudged capable to host the Games currently, then I can't see why Buenos Aires shouldn't also be recognised as being capable of hoting the Games in the near future also; let alone the 2040's. BA is comparatively similar to Rio in population but considered much safer and also citizens enjoy a higher GDP per capita. So I absolutely believe that BA will be a very competitive candidate for the next non-US host from the Americas; and at least be a "new" Olympic country where as Canada would be attempting to host their 4th or 5th Games (if they host another winter olympics). its all speculative, but I think US-Latin America is more likely as the next 2 Olympic hosts in the Americas than Canada featuring.
  11. i'd say you'd be wrong. The next North American Olympics will be in 2024/2028/2032 (more likely 2028/2032). If the USA selects one of San Francisco, New York or Chicago then they'll win the bid. The main appeal of hosting a North American Olympics is the US television revenue; so if the duration between US hosts is quite long (three to four decades), then whats the point of going to Canada when there are better and more lucrative alternatives (and no "recent host issue"). After that, the Americas won't host another games for at least 12 years; so then its the 2040's. i think its more likely a Latin American host would stage the next Games in the Americas after the US, though that certainly is debatable. so at best i doubt Toronto would host any earlier than 2040; but more likely 2056+
  12. i was hopping people wouldnt read page pg 13 lol. your probably a canadian expat anyway and im not saying canada won't host another olympics before australia; just that neither will host for at least another 40 years.
  13. no, it doesnt. notice how its only canadians saying Toronto will host in the next 40 years. for the record i doubt Australia will host another Olympics until Melbourne 2096 (bookmark it).
  14. I actually sympathise for Qatar for the first time
  15. Qatar's victory clearly sets a precedence that any country, regardless of population, size, infrastructure, transport, sporting culture and football tradition, can win a World Cup bid so long as you have money. Therefore, i think Equatorial Guinea has a strong chance at 2026; they have one of the highest GDP's per capita in the world because of (like Qatar) petro-dollars. Forget the corruption problems associated with the country because clearly thats nothing for FIFA executives; indeed, they encourage it! lol but surely the US Government and populice that cares would be offended that a country smaller than like 30 American metros (someone was offended by my use of the word "city") has been awarded the tournament instead.
  16. You can pay for the bid then cos I don't want to
  17. i really hope Australia doesn't bother and waste taxpayer's money; USA is insulted ala Chicago snubbing and decide not to bid in the immediate future; China assumes they can't bid because of 2022; England gives up; Tokyo and Paris are successful in Olympic bids- ending Japan or France's 2026 dreams; Italy focuses on failed Summer Olympic bids; and Uruguay/Argentina focus on 2030. Leaving it to be a contest between Mexico and Morocco; bahahahahaha!!! would serve FIFA right having such lousy candidates
  18. Cannot see Canada hosting another summer olympics for at least 30 years and probably longer. now that hosting the games is extremely popular for cities worldwide, what's in it for the IOC to return the games to Canada? Canada is a previous host country; doesnt have a particularly large population; its international power and inlfluence will stagnate and become negligible as the developing countries continue to rapidly growth; its current international power and influence is already minor (Canada is on every major international "group" or organization just because the US wants to have 2 votes); will have negligible growth in the next 50 years (in comparison to the emerging economies); despite its wealth, has not been a major power at the summer olympics historically; and for a country of its size, Canada has had its fair share of Olympics with 3. Not to mention, prospective Canadian host cities aren't all that iconic, exotic or fascinating (specifically from an international perspective; which may be naive but people's interest in Toronto just doesnt compare with Rio, Paris, Tokyo, Cape Town etc) for a summer games. i really can't see how the IOC could justify awarding Canada another Olympics before Africa (which now has viable hosting options in South Africa and therefore cannot be easily overlooked anymore), a muslim city (doubt this would before 2028, but by then Istanbul could possibly host while obviously Doha, Dubai and Abu Dhabi are all capable), Japan (previous host like Canada but exceeds Canada in almost every other relevant category (population, economy, influence, sports success, duration since last Olympics, recognisability of candidate city)) and France (same reasons as Japan). Hosting 2010 surely rules Canada out for 2020-2024; especially considering bids from particularly RSA, Japan and France. By 2028/2032, the US would surely bid again and provided they selected a decent candidate (Chicago, SF, NYC, Miami)would certainly be awarded the games ahead of a Canadian city (not necessarily 2028/2032, but the next games in NA from that point on) since the US TV audiences are the main reason why the games would return to North America . By 2028/2032 also, India would be pushing hard for an olympics and like with Beijing/China I think the IOC will be forced to award Delhi an Olympics in at least the 2030's. Personally I don't think India should host an Olympics for 50 years because of their extreme poverty, but if by 2030's the world's 3rd richest country (by then) with 1/6 of humanity is demanding a games then the IOC would surely gave in (and Delhi should be better prepared in 20+ years anyway). Then there's also Rome, Berlin, Saint Petersburg, Kuala Lumpur (2028+), Buenos Aires as strong bidders. If Canada hasn't been awarded the games already by 2040, then another big player comes along; China. 32 years after Beijing would surely be sufficient for the world's most populous and by then most powerful and richest country. Shanghai vs Toronto 2040 would look very similar to 2008's voting. 2040 would be appropriate timing for China since they are forecasted to overtake the US as the richest country in the world by 2038 also. By 2040, China would have a strong argument to host an Olympics every 2 years as purely from a population perspective, they would be entitled to 1 in every 6 games and by then be able to back it up financially also. So personally I'd expect the games to be awarded to Africa, Europe twice, the US, India, Middle East, Japan and China before another Canadian host. So 2052 at the earliest for mine!
  19. I think they both had similarities don't you think? Both were strong technical bids but with unfortunate timing. Beijing was always going to win 2008, while it appears the IOC, particularly after FIFA 's continental rotation, was determined to send the Olympics to a "new frontier"; and with Rio de Janeiro presenting a strong bid, this desire was met while a former host in Tokyo had little chance. i don't really see Pyeongchang possibly hosting the 2018 winter olympics as being a big issue; certainly no bigger issue than Canada hosting a winter and then summer Olympics just 10 years apart. Especially considering Brazil will host the 2014 World Cup yet was still successful in its Olympic bid; the 2004/2006 Olympics' were both in Europe as are 2012/2014. Also considering that East Asia is the most populous region in the world and consequently has the largest television market; a market that may not be as lucrative as the USA or Europe currently, but will be in 20 years as the national economies continue to surge. And surely the IOC would want to capitalise and strength the Olympic product in this region for the future. Asia has also been severely overlooked in hosting Olympic Games; just 5 Games in a region accounting for 55% of humanity; so a rare winter/summer games double shouldn't be a concern.
  20. Consider that Tokyo trumps Toronto in terms of: Population - the Tokyo Metropolitan Area's population is more than 6 times the size of Greater Toronto - Japan's population is more than 3 times the size of Canada's Economy - Tokyo was described by Saskia Sassen as one of the three command cities of the world economy - Tokyo is ranked by PriceWaterCooperHouse as the world's richest city by total GDP; while Toronto is No.22 - Japan has the world's third largest GDP, compared with Canada at 10 - Japanese citizens are marginally wealthier than Canadians Influence - Tokyo is the capital city of one of the world's most powerful nations (3 largest economy, 10th largest population) - Tokyo was ranked No.3 among global cities by "Foreign Policy" while Toronto was 14 Sport - Japan has historically performed better at the Summer Olympics than Canada (123 gold vs 58) - Tokyo has hosted the 1964 Olympics and co-hosted the 2002 FIFA World Cup; while the biggest event Toronto has hosted was the Pan American Games Infrastructure - Tokyo has probably the best public transport system in the world; while Toronto is very much a car dependant metropolis - Tokyo's existing stadia is already better than Toronto's - Additional stadia will be less likely to become "white elephants" in the world's largest city than Toronto - Tokyo must be considered more reliable than Toronto in delivering facilities on schedule Timezone - 2020 would be 12 years since another Olympics was hosted in a similar timezone to Tokyo's; while it would be just 4 years for Toronto Drought - Japan's drought for hosting Summer Olympic Games is 12 years longer than Canada's - Japan's drought for hosting any Olympic Games is also 12 years longer
  21. If the IOC decide not to award consecutive games to developing nations (say South Africa, India or Turkey) then I think Tokyo will have to be the favourite for 2020. Just assuming its a battle between developed cities, I honestly cannot imagine a strong reason as to why the IOC would and should award Toronto the Olympics over Tokyo. i'll expand later
  22. Americans just can't hack it that they lost the olympics. They can't bear the thought that a bigger and better communist equivalent to the USSR has come to spoil their arrogant party. Better get used to it, China's not going anywhere!
  23. Just looking at wikipedia's beijing olympics page, and surprisingly found Canada had sent the 8th largest delegation desite clearly not being a medal powerhouse; while Italy sent a larger contingent of athletes than GB and France. No surprises with top 5. Top 10 in order: China (639), USA (596), Russia (467), Germany (463), Australia (433), Japan (351), Italy (341), Canada (332), France (323), GB (312).
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