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Golds count more than silvers and bronzes.That is why the traditional table has always ranked nations by number of gold medals won irrespective of the totals.Like Roltel that's how I've always remembered it! I don't say that there shouldn't be acknowledgement for the nation who wins the most medals overall and that nearly always seems to be the USA.But it just looks weird to rank it above the one with the most golds.It just doesn't look right! After all,it's the gold medal-winning performance that sets the standard for that sport and which everyone remembers! As to why the IOC website now shows the default medal table by total medals won rather than golds won (as it did for previous Olympics like Beijing) is puzzling.I wonder if it has cut a deal with the USOC along the lines of: You be more flexible about your share of the revenues and we'll adopt your way of presenting the medal table??

Were these Winter Olympics the best ever? James Pearce | 20:04 UK time, Sunday, 28 February 2010 Early in these Winter Olympics a furore was caused by a journalist asking if these Games were turning out to be the worst Winter Olympics ever. Now I'm ready to pose another question, which will probably provoke just as much debate. Have these actually been the best Winter Olympics ever? Let me clarify that question a little. In many ways there are always two parallel Olympics which take place - the one that viewers around the world watch on TV, and the one that spectators come to a city to enjoy in person. For example, the Beijing Olympics were considered to be a great success by the international television audience, whereas many people who witnessed the Games at first hand complained about the lack of atmosphere in the Chinese capital. I was in Beijing, and I can assure you that you simply cannot compare the spectator experience there with the one here in Vancouver. Vancouver wins hands down. In Beijing there was little buzz around the city. Yes, they were a fantastic Games in terms of quality of venues and competition, but not in terms of the amount of fun that people were having. Here the street party began on the opening night and it shows no signs of coming to an end just yet. One senior official from London 2012, who's been in Vancouver, told me that she's learned more from five days in Canada than she had from three weeks in China. That's because, in terms of spectator experience, London will be looking to follow the Vancouver model. I haven't seen much of the TV coverage, so it's hard for me to judge what your personal opinions of these Olympics will be, but I hope that many of you will write your views here. In the meantime I'll focus on my experience of the Games, having now spent nearly three weeks in Vancouver and Whistler. So, I should probably refine my opening question just a little: Are these Winter Olympics, in terms of spectator experience, the best ever? On Saturday I was outside the Broadcast Centre grabbing some fresh air when I saw a large crowd heading down the street towards me. At the centre of the throng was a big Canadian flag being waved proudly in the air. As the people moved closer I could see that the man carrying that flag was Jon Montgomery, a Canadian gold medallist last weekend in the skeleton. Around him, an impromptu procession had formed - a celebration of home-grown success. The further down the road that Montgomery went, the more people tagged on behind. If this had been a scene in some other countries maybe there would have been accusations of over-hyped nationalism, but this felt spontaneous, natural and very good natured. I had witnessed just one of hundreds of events that have been taking place on the streets here every day, but for me it summed up one of the successes of these Games. When I interviewed John Furlong, the chief executive of the Vancouver Olympics, last week, he said that he wanted the Games to help unite Canadians. Few would argue that hasn't happened over the past two weeks. These have not, though, just been a Games for Canadians, they've been an all-embracing Games. The Canadian people could not have been more welcoming. All the athletes I've spoken to have said exactly the same. Foreigners have been welcomed with open arms. It's almost impossible to travel on public transport here without a local coming over to speak to you (admittedly the BBC accreditation around my neck is a bit of a giveaway) and ask how you're enjoying the Olympics. There's a real pride here in Vancouver, as we saw from the strong response to the original articles which were so critical of the Games. It's going to be interesting in London in 2012 to see if the British people get behind their Olympic team in quite the same way as the Canadians have here. Flags fly in every shop window, and are displayed on hundreds of thousands of shirts and jackets. My producer, Jon, noticed early in the Olympics that a number of people were wearing red Canadian mittens. He decided that he'd buy a pair to take home for his wife. Two weeks later he's still looking! Every shop has sold out. They've become the must-have fashion accessory of the Games - millions have been bought. It's just another illustration of how Canadians have united behind their country's flag. Even Oprah Winfrey was excited to be able to give some away on her show the other day. I can only write about my personal experience in Vancouver, and, as you can see, I have little but praise for the way that this city has handled the Olympics. These are only my second Winter Olympics, so I'm in no position to say that they're the best ever, but in terms of spectator experience they definitely compare favourably with Turin four years ago. And how about this for a compliment from a man who really should know what he's talking about? The IOC president Jacques Rogge told me in an interview (which you can watch here) that the people of Vancouver had "embraced the Olympic Games like no other city in the world before". Many other seasoned Winter Olympic observers are also putting Vancouver right at the top of their list. Are they at the top of yours? http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/jamespearce/2010/02/worst_ever_these_olympics_may.html What a difference a fortnight can make!

So either you win no gold medals at all on home soil or you win more than any other nation in history! It's just all or nothing with you Canucks isn't it? Once again,congrats Canada!!

It's just the cherry on the cake isn't it? What a great game! It couldn't have been much closer and the Americans made it a great final but,in the end,it sort of seemed it was predestined for Canada to walk away with that record 14th Gold Medal! I actually came over all Canadian and tried to sing 'Oh Canada' along with everyone else,even though I didn't know the words.(And I've never ever been tempted to sing my own national anthem)!!

Amazing performance from the Canucks.You set out to own the podium and you did just that! Be proud...be very proud.Congratulations and well done Canada!!

The Germans show yet again what a powerhouse they are in both Summer and Winter sports! Congratulations Germany!!

Whoever authorised that great big fence around the Olympic cauldron.

I'm sure if they promise to behave in future,HM Queen Liz will graciously consider pardoning them and allow them back into the fold! (Providing of course they promise to give up shouting 'USA,USA' and refund us for all that tea they chucked into the harbour!! )

'CAN-AMERICA' sounds better to me! I don't think so.The last time some of them tried to secede,I recall there was a cvil war to fetch 'em back!

Actually,I think you will find that curling's home country is Scotland.Scots introduced the game to many other countries including Canada and Sweden! However Canadians and Swedes are now much better at playing it.Congrats to the Swedish ladies!! Curling

:lol:

Canada hockey team regret champagne-on-ice celebration Canada's women's ice hockey team have apologised for celebrating their Olympic gold by swigging champagne and beer and smoking cigars on the ice. The revelry took place after the players had collected their medals for a 2-0 win over the United States. The International Olympic Committee (IOC) is looking into the incident. "The members of Team Canada apologise if their on-ice celebrations, after fans had left the building, have offended anyone," Hockey Canada said. The statement went on: "In the excitement of the moment, the celebration left the confines of our dressing room and shouldn't have. "The team regrets that its gold medal celebration may have caused the IOC or the Canadian Olympic Committee any embarrassment.They had a few cigars and some beers and champagne and basked in the glory of this Olympic moment." About half an hour after securing the hosts' eighth gold of the Vancouver Games, Canadian team members re-entered the arena at Canada Hockey Place wearing their medals. Some lay stretched out on the ice drinking from beer cans and champagne bottles, while one player climbed on the ice-resurfacing machine and honked the horn several times. "We will look into this matter but it is not an investigation," said IOC spokesman Mark Adams. BBC ice hockey pundit Brent Pope said the scenes were nothing more than a "traditional" ice hockey celebration. "They had a few cigars and some beers and champagne and basked in the glory of this Olympic moment once their duties and responsibilities had been completed," said Pope, general manager of the Cardiff Devils team. Marie-Philip Poulin scored twice in the first period to give Canada's women the title for the third straight Olympics. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/olympic_games/vancouver_2010/ice_hockey/8538366.stm Is this yet another case of Jacques and the boys getting all hot and bothered over the way winning athletes choose to celebrate? Maybe they should issue an instruction guide!

Team GB chiefs defend Olympic tally of one medal By Lewis Wiltshire BBC Sport in Vancouver Amy Williams has won Britain's only medal so far British Olympic bosses have defended Team GB's achievements at the Winter Olympics following criticism that they have won just one medal so far. Short track speed skater Jon Eley provides GB's sole realistic chance of adding to Amy Williams' skeleton gold. "We have achieved what we set out to do," said Team GB chief Andy Hunt. "We never set a target. We just said 'better than Turin'. Amy's gold checked off that objective. We would have liked more but that is a good outcome." Eley competes in his final event, the 500m, in Vancouver on Friday. You can't blame the athletes at all - none of them are going out there and thinking fifth or sixth is OK In the Turin Olympics four years ago, Shelley Rudman's silver, also in skeleton, was Britain's sole medal. UK Sport, the governing body which decides how much funding Olympic athletes receive, set a target for Team GB of three medals of any colour but Hunt is happy his team has gone one better this time. Five-time Olympic gold medallist Sir Steve Redgrave, vice-president of the British Olympic Association, was alongside Hunt at the briefing for British media in Vancouver. He added: "I don't think there is a sense of disappointment - I think there is a sense of celebration of winning that gold medal. I would take one gold medal over five bronze medals any day. "The team has performed amazingly well. The expectation was that we had six medal chances, but we have only delivered one so far. Is that a disappointment? Can you say we had six bolt-on medal chances? I think the answer is probably No. "We have had one medal so far and, excellent as that is, we are not that surprised. You can't blame the athletes at all - none of them are going out there and thinking fifth or sixth is OK." However, Hunt said the BOA would launch a "strategic review" after the Olympics, and admitted that his organisation could support funding being even more channelled towards genuine medal hopes than it currently is. "There is an opportunity to consolidate funding to focus on certain winter sports," he admitted. Skeleton has been one of the biggest beneficiaries of that funding model so far - taking £2.110m out of a total budget of £5.822m from UK Sport for the Vancouver 2010 Olympic cycle. Adam Pengilly, a skeleton athlete who has just been elected to the IOC athletes' commission, said: "To go from one to three medals in one Games given the level of funding was always going to be difficult. "We have to get the funding right and make sure the governing bodies do govern. If you have funding you can extend your athletic career." The challenge for us now is to make sure the home team is really at the centre of the Games because the Games will largely be judged by the success of the home team Andy Hunt,BOA chief executive pointed out that 64% of the GB team in Canada are competing at their first Olympics, and 17% are 21 or under. The BOA says its research suggests most medal wins come at an athlete's second Games, so they are already looking towards Sochi 2014 in Russia. Hunt said: "One gold is a tremendous achievement. This is not like the Summer Olympics - these are unpredictable sports. The funding we get is minimal and we have given a lot of the athletes the opportunity to compete at their first Games." According to Hunt, also the BOA chief executive, there were two other objectives aside from bettering Turin - personal bests for as many GB athletes as possible, and gaining key lessons for London's summer Olympics in 2012. "There have been eight personal bests," Hunt said. "We have had seven top 10 placements - we had nine in Turin so we are just short of that but we're not through yet and there could be more." Although two of those top 10 placements come in curling, where only 10 teams compete, Hunt pointed out that the British curlers still had to qualify in both the men's and women's events. In terms of London, Hunt said the enormous enthusiasm the population of Vancouver, and Canada in general, have shown for these Olympics, could be a double-edged sword. "All of us have been totally amazed by the way the Canadian nation have been absolutely entwined with these Games, and [organising committee] Vanoc and the Canada team have also been right there at the centre of the Games. "The challenge for us now is to make sure the home team is really at the centre of the Games because the Games will largely be judged by the success of the home team. "But we have seen the flip side of that - the huge expectations set for the Canadian athletes beyond what they have achieved. "The pressure on [Canadian skeleton athlete] Melissa Hollingsworth was really immense. So you also have to manage the disadvantages of being at home." http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/olympic_games/vancouver_2010/8537873.stm I blame it on Lee.He's obviously been staying in too much! Never mind...let's all have a nice cuppa!

I think I understand where you're coming from CAF,but I confess I just don't understand how Germans could in any way be proud of the so-called sporting achievements of the former DDR now that we are all well acquainted with its well-documented programme of forcibly doping its athletes,often without their knowledge or consent.Why would you want to include them in Germany's Olympic achievements,given what we know about how they were obtained? I agree that the DDR was not alone in doing this,that state-sponsored doping was a feature of many East European Communist states to some extent.It now makes me treat many of their so-called 'achievements' with a great deal of scepticism.But the doping programme in the DDR seemed to be so much more thorough and organised than elsewhere.Back in the 1970s and 80s,I used to marvel at how such a small country as the DDR with a population of about 17 million could regularly come second in the Olympic Medals Table after such mighty countries like the Soviet Union and the USA and even far outstrip their fellow Germans in the Federal Republic! In my naivety,I just assumed that the DDR had a wonderful sporting programme that enabled its athletes to outperform others from much larger countries and wished we could replicate it in my own country.Then the truth gradually emerged,the penny dropped and I now awoke to the real reason why so many female athletes from the DDR had a rather strange,mannish appearance! It is interesting to me that since Germany's reunification in 1990 one no longer sees this amazing preponderance of medal-winning athletes from the former DDR.Can we really attribute this to inferior sporting opportunities in the reunified Germany or to an abrupt cessation of illegal state-sponsored doping? I'm sorry,but I suspect the latter. Germany is one of the great sporting nations of the world and the natural ability of its athletes is admired the world over.In both Summer and Winter sporting events,Germany is regularly at or near the top as we are currently witnessing in Vancouver and it achieves all this without the aid of the kind of state-sponsored doping programme that operated in the former DDR! PBS Documentary East German Doping Scandal Forgotten victims of East German doping take their battle to court Fallout still felt from East Germany's doping programme Former East German athletes angry over doping confessions

I fully agree with this.Germany should forget all about the DDR and its disgraceful legacy. It doesn't need their tarnished reputation when it has so many excellent athletes of its own who did it the proper way!

Maybe you can arrange to be out a bit more often Lee...then we might win a few more medals!!

Gosh...they've been tearing into London 2012 almost since London won the bid nearly 5 years ago! As of late,they've been a bit quiet on the homefront probably because things have been progressing quite well and there's not been much for them to get their teeth into.Which is why they probably decided to turn on Vancouver and have been making the most of any problems that have been reported from there.IMO a lot of it is almost certainly a thinly-disguised threat towards London 2012,a warning of what the latter can expect if their cock-ups become too visible.Charming lot aren't they? But I too have been taken a bit aback by the ferocity of some of the Brit press's reporting on Vancouver.After all,Canada is a close friend and ally that has never done us any harm.So I do wonder quite where all the vitriol has come from! And I guess the Canadian press will be more than a little tempted to repay us in kind if and when London 2012 starts to get into any difficulties.Gee thanks a lot,Guardian,Daily Mail and co!! All I can say is that these articles definitely do not speak for the vast majority of Britons who either couldn't care less about these Games (we have scant tradition of winter sports in our country) or are enthusiastic admirers,like all the British posters on these forums including me! Please take your cue from us!!

Yes,apparently it is connected with the Angles who came to Britain and gave their name to our country (England derives from Angla-land). There is a region of eastern England which is still called East Anglia. East Anglia Here's a pint of Adnams Bitter - Champion Beer of East Anglia 2007:

And of course some of them came to Britain with the Angles back in the 5th century and created us Anglo-Saxons!! Unfortunately,we didn't inherit any of their winter-sporting abilities! Me too.I can't get it out of my head!

That's a very catchy little number,CAF.Are you a Saxon by any chance?

British media coverage angers Vancouver Olympics chief BBC Sport's James Pearce on the problems which have plagued Vancouver A leading Olympic official has hit out at sections of the British media for their coverage of the Vancouver Games. Organisers have been criticised for the way they have run the Games and also came under fire in the wake of the death of luger Nodar Kumaritashvili. Games chief John Furlong told BBC Sport: "To read caustic and finger-pointing comments, you have to wonder what event they are really watching. They don't appear to be attending the same Olympic Games as everyone else." The death of Georgian Kumaritashvili, who crashed into a steel pole at the Whistler Sliding Centre just hours before the opening ceremony, sent shockwaves around Canada and the world. However, the 21-year-old - along with every other non-Canadian athlete - was given limited access to the track considered to be the fastest and most dangerous in the world. Many Canadians have been really hurt by some of the criticisms in the British media Although organisers immediately changed the starting position of the track, while the International Luge Federation will make adjustments to slow the track down, certain British newspapers believed the hosts were partly to blame for the tragedy. Commenting on the "Own The Podium" campaign to make Canada the top sporting nation in the world by the 2010 Games, the Daily Mail said it "should not mean placing competitors in jeopardy, particularly in a sport in which fatalities have occurred, albeit infrequently". Meanwhile, the Guardian said the Games were in danger of being remembered as "the worst in Olympic history". However, Furlong defended Vancouver's organising committee (Vanoc) and its reaction following Kumaritashvili's death. "The day that happened was as heartbreaking a thing [as could happen], and I would say it was probably the only scenario that we were unprepared for," he said. "I got that call that morning and I felt like I had a phone call saying that my son had been killed. "As an organising committee we were mortified. The entire organisation, all 50,000 of us, went back on our heels and tried to figure out how we would manage from here. "There's plenty of time to talk about the track when the Games are over. The way the track is put together is a very complex process, Vanoc and the IOC work in collaboration to deliver the venue that is designed. "We went through that process and we built the track that everybody wanted us to build and we wanted to build. We had World Cups on it, we had practices on it, we had thousands of runs down the track. "Our team have done everything they can to try to give them the venue that they wanted for the Games." The Games have been plagued by weather problems as Vancouver, situated on the west coast of Canada, experiences its warmest winter in a century. The temperate conditions have forced organisers to refund about £245,000 as snow melted on Cypress Mountain, leaving sections of the viewing areas unsafe. "The fact that we've had the warmest January ever since we've been recording temperatures, it goes back 100 years - it's happening, what are we going to do about it?" said Furlong. "We have fought the snow demons on that mountain and I think we're winning. "There are some things we've had to do to protect the field of play, so that the athletes get to complete their competitions and have their Olympic dream. I think Vanoc has been very open with us about the problems that they have encountered, but also we have seen the great successes of the Games "I think it's too bad that people see it otherwise, we don't and frankly we're a little bit offended that they have taken the position they have." Further problems have been encountered with the Olympic flame and the fence which surrounds it, with some spectators complaining the barriers are too far to view the cauldron. "In order to put the cauldron where we did, we had to make sure we weren't going to compromise security for the building," said Furlong. "Once we saw that (restricted view) was happening, we were trying to find a way to create a remedy and we've done that now, there's a wonderful viewing gallery right beside it and there's a space in the fence so you can take all the pictures you want." Despite the media criticism, Britain's Olympic Minister Tessa Jowell, who is overseeing the country's strategy to host the 2012 Games in London, defended Vancouver's organisation. "I think Vanoc has been very open with us about the problems that they have encountered, but also we have seen the great successes of the Games," she said. "I think it is quite unfair to dwell on the problems. You know, on any event of this scale, of course there are bound to be problems." http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/olympic_games/vancouver_2010/8521728.stm

The UK has no winter sporting tradition to speak of (our mountains are not high or snowy enough) so it's hardly surprising that we're crap at 'em and probably always will be.It beats me why we bother sending such a large team (52 I think) with a stated target of winning just 3 medals.I mean I ask you!! But it genuinely puzzles me why NZ doesn't make more of an impression.They have huge Alpine mountains,glaciers and winter scenery galore with a population not much smaller than Norway's.So if Norway can do it...what's holding back the Kiwis?? That's the real puzzle in my eyes??

Methinks the real reason why there's been so much sniping from the Brit press is that we haven't won any medals here,unlike in Beijing! We seem to be suffering from the same malady as our Canuck cousins...this strange desire to win something.Very un-British and very un-Canadian.I just don't know what's got into us these days!! Anyway,sod the podium and all that crap...I invite you all to join in me in a nice pint of Joseph Holt's finest bitter (the cream of Manchester). Cheers!!!

Never mind that lot.... WHERE'S SHANIA???

The woman who sang the Olympic hymn must have had the biggest hair of any opera singer I've ever seen whilst the lighting of the cauldron was a little bit too complicated for my liking with first an inside and then an outside lighting but it all looked impressive in the end. I enjoyed the whole thing.Most of the effects were fantastic,especially the blowing whales and the boy running across the prairie sequences.Well done,Vancouver! Saddest part was the entry of the Georgia team.They looked devastated and I wanted to rush out and hug them.I'm sure the rest of the audience felt the same. Now on with the Games,but first,I must try and grab a few hours kip!!