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Indeed...what has this raving lunatic done with the real Zenica???

I have the feeling that either Zenica is suffering some form of mental breakdown hence these uncharacteristic nonsense posts we are getting from him or,more likely IMO,this is not the original poster at all but someone who is using his identity to bombard us with all this gibberish!!

8 Songs from Celine???? Cancel 7 of 'em and give 'em to SHANIA !!!! You just gotta have Shania !!!!

Baron and I were joking.Neither of us nor anybody else seriously believes that the protests in Paris,as in London,were connected with anything other than outrage at China's treatment of Tibet and other human rights abuses!

In which case,does that mean the London 2012 relay can expect an even livelier reception??

Read it again James....the quote was from Jacques Rogge.The writer of the article then said someone should have told that to Adolf Hitler! And please don't go and point out to me that Adolf Hitler is dead!! I respect your point of view!

Here'a timely reminder about the totalitarian origins of the modern Olympic torch relay!! Aryan ideals, not ancient Greece, were the inspiration behind flame tradition By Andy McSmith Tuesday, 8 April 2008 There is a two-word answer to those who think the Olympic torch is a symbol of harmony between nations that should be kept apart from politics – Adolf Hitler. The ceremony played out on the streets of Paris yesterday did not originate in ancient Greece, nor even in the 19th century, when the Olympic movement was revived. The entire ritual, with its pagan overtones, was devised by a German named Dr Carl Diem, who ran the 1936 Olympics in Berlin. Although he was not a Nazi, and was appointed to run the Olympics before the Nazis came to power, Diem adapted very quickly to the new regime, and ended the war as a fanatical military commander exhorting teenage Germans to die like Spartans rather than accept defeat. Thousands did, but not Diem, who lived to be 80. He sold to Josef Goebbels – in charge of media coverage of the Games – the idea that 3,422 young Aryan runners should carry burning torches along the 3,422km route from the Temple of Hera on Mount Olympus to the stadium in Berlin. It was his idea that the flame should be lit under the supervision of a High Priestess, using mirrors to concentrate the sun's rays, and passed from torch to torch along the way, so that when it arrived in the Berlin stadium it would have a quasi-sacred purity. The concept could hardly fail to appeal to the Nazis, who loved pagan mythology, and saw ancient Greece as an Aryan forerunner of the Third Reich. The ancient Greeks believed that fire was of divine origin, and kept perpetual flames burning in their temples. In Olympia, where the ancient games were held, the flame burnt permanently on the altar of the goddess Hestia. In Athens, athletes used to run relay races carrying burning torches, in honour of certain gods. But the ancient Games were proclaimed by messengers wearing olive crowns, a symbol of the sacred truce which guaranteed that athletes could travel to and from Olympus safely. There were no torch relays associated with the ancient Olympics until Hitler. The route from Olympus to Berlin conveniently passed through Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Hungary, Austria, and Czechoslovakia - countries where the Nazis wanted to extend their influence. Before long, all would be under German military occupation. In Hungary, the flame was serenaded by gypsy musicians who would later be rounded up and sent to death camps. In Berlin, the flame was carried the last kilometre along Berlin's main boulevard, by a 26- year-old runner named Siegfried Eifrig, who was watched by hundreds of thousands as he transferred the flame to a cauldron on an altar surrounded by vast Nazi flags. Eifrig, amazingly, is still alive, aged 98, and told the BBC this month that carrying the ceremony should be a purely sporting affair. Despite its dark political overtones, the event was an unqualified success for the organisers, immortalised in a propaganda film by the Nazi director Leni Riefenstahl. The ritual has been repeated before each Olympics but not always with such organisational flair. In Melbourne, in 1956, the 19-year-old athlete Ron Clark burnt his hand as he put the torch to the cauldron, because technicians had increased the gas flow, fearing it might not light. When the Games returned to Australia 44 years later, Clark was persuaded to do the honours again, and burnt his forearm during a rehearsal. One of the Australians taking part in the 2000 torch ceremony decided to do his stretch in a tractor instead of on foot. Before yesterday, the flame had gone out just twice. It was extinguished by a sudden downpour in Montreal in 1976, when a worker scandalously relit it with a cigarette ligher, forgetting the pagan mystique involved; it should have been relit from a back-up torch. In 2004, it was blown out by a gust of wind. Yesterday's events pushed the number of such mishaps from two to five, making the President of the IOC, Jacques Rogge, furious. "Violence for whatever reason is not compatible with the values of the torch relay or the Olympic Games," he said. Someone should have told Adolf Hitler. http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/general...ion-805746.html

Er..excuse me,this 'geezer' never said anything of the kind! All I said was that I would not hesitate to use a public toilet if I felt I absolutely had to and am not particularly bothered whether they are French-type squat ones or English-type sit-down ones,providing they are reasonably clean! When you gotta go...you gotta go!! (Not that I have ever needed to use a public loo for 'No.2's' but that's another matter!!) And I don't know where you're from but there is no posher and more sought-after area of Manchester than the one where I live!!!

I think everyone should be made to practice doing 50 squat-thrusts a day,like they make you do in the Army! Just in case you may one day...shock horror gasp!.... come across a toilet that does not have a seat for you to sit on!!!

Really? So what would you do if you got 'caught short' and the nearest toilet was a public one? Find a bush to go behind a bush or do it in your pants?? Seriously,it never ceases to amuse me those folks who are too 'prissy' to use squat toilets.It's just a toilet for heaven's sake!!I will never forget the long line of people who were queuing (yes,queuing) to use the sit-down toilets on a French camp site I was once at when there were plenty of squat-style French loos vacant and available nearby!! I mean,what would you do if you were out in the wilderness somewhere and felt a pressing urge to answer a call of nature? You'd go behind a tree and SQUAT!!! Get over it!!!

Nope..the Dalai Lama!

The Chinese affect an indifferent stance towards Spielberg's decision: Steven who? China shrugs off Spielberg's stand Meanwhile,George Bush adds his own reassurance to the Chinese by opposing any 1980-type boycott! Bush rules out an Olympic boycott

????? I never knew that! That's because there are historically many more countries in Asia and Europe and most of them have stayed largely intact except for the multi-ethnic empires like Austria-Hungary which were split up as a result of World War 1.Most of the large ones are still with us although 'large' is a relative term.For instance,France,Spain and the UK count as large countries by European standards and each have remained nation-states for centuries (despite some growing regional tensions).In North America there were only ever 3 nation states to begin with and,like most large European and Asian countries,they have managed to overcome regional tensions and wars to stay together (so far)!

Of course,but history should never be allowed to get in the way of change. So,do you think it will be a big issue for most Canadians if the Queen or some other royal is invited to open the Vancouver Games? Maybe not or it wouldn't even have been talked about,would it? (Just trying to bring the discussion back on topic)!

Oh,for starters: 1. Ending the link between the monarchy and the Church of England.(Only a small minority of British people now profess to being practicing Anglicans so this link is now an historical anomaly). 2. Allowing the monarch the same freedom of religion as the rest of us and so abolishing the present ban on members of the royal family becoming or marrying Catholics (although actually they can but they lose their place in the succession if they do).This is a logical consequence of getting rid of 1. 3. Ending male-discriminated succession so that hard-working types like Princess Anne don't keep getting pushed down the line of succession in favour of free-loading younger brothers and every other boy baby they happen to pop out! Sexual equality is becoming the norm in the rest of Britain so why should the royals be exempt?? 4.Transferring the monarch's residual constitutional powers to Parliament,such as the command of the Armed Forces and the right to declare war etc.Yes I know these powers are,in practice,exercised by the Prime Minister on her behalf but they should now be the prerogative of our elected representatives in name as well as deed! There are others but I don't want to stray too far from the topic of this thread.But every time some back-bench MP tries to initiate change or even discussion on the above lines the government keeps coming back with the excuse that it's all very complicated and would require the assent of every other Commonwealth monarchy before they could do anything blah blah blah! Which is why I want to restrict dealings with the monarchy to the country on whom it has the most relevance....ie.the UK!!

I think this problem is going to surface so long as you retain a Head of State who resides in another country more than 3,000 miles away! Someone asked the question earlier if Canada retains the British monarchy mainly because it symbolises your distinctiveness from your all-powerful neighbour to the south.I'd be interested to hear from the Canadians on here if they agree with that observation? If so,surely there must be other symbols to assert Canada's distinctive nature?? As a Brit,I am continually astonished that proud,independent countries like Canada,Australia,New Zealand etc. continue to keep the Queen as your Head of State.I understand that she is there mostly because none of you can agree on an acceptable way of replacing her (as yet).But where there's a will...there's usually a way isn't there? Personally,I wish you'd all give her the boot as politicians here are fond of using her multi-monarch role of various Commonwealth countries as an excuse to delay implementing some long overdue reforms to the monarchy and its role here in the UK.Well its too difficult,they say,because we would have to get the consent of all the other Commonwealth monarchies first...blah blah blah! Bullshit! Get your own Head of State so we can start bringing our's more up to date and we don't have to have any more discussions like this about whether she should be opening your Olympic Games!!!

I'm currently having trouble loading the web pages on this site.Sometimes they go agonizingly slowly and can take up to a minute or more before they load.Sometimes they just freeze and I keep having to hit my refresh button to get things moving,not always with success.For instance,it's just taken about 30 seconds to get into this particular Forum and when I tried to make a post a few minutes ago,it threw me out altogether although thankfully it allowed me to save the text first! I've experienced trouble with this website in the past but in a different form.I've tried adjusting my browser to no avail but it only seems to be this website that gives me any trouble so I'm not convinced it is the browser.Is it just a problem for AOL subscribers like me? Is anybody else experiencing problems like this? Any advice anyone can give me will be gratefully accepted! (PS. I wonder how long it will take me to post THIS?).

AP article in today's Yomiuri Shimbun: Amnesty International accuses China of increasing abuses in run-up to Olympics By CHRISTOPHER BODEEN Associated Press Writer BEIJING (AP) -- China's preparations for the Olympic Games have so far not included promised improvements to civil liberties and the International Olympic Committee must step up pressure on Beijing to deliver on its pledge of guaranteed press freedoms, activists groups said Tuesday. Chinese authorities have violated pledges made when bidding for the games by heightening abuse and surveillance of political and religious dissidents, jailing journalists, and closing publications focusing on social development, human rights group Amnesty International said in a new report. With just one year before the games, time is "running out for the Chinese government to fulfill its promise of promoting human rights as part of the Olympics legacy," Amnesty's secretary-general, Irene Khan, said in a statement. "Unless the Chinese authorities take urgent measures to stop human rights violations over the coming year, they risk tarnishing the image of China and the legacy of the Beijing Olympics." The Committee to Protect Journalists said when the IOC awarded the 2008 Olympics to Beijing seven years ago, it had promised to ensure that reporters could report freely in China. Under a regulation announced last year, foreign reporters can travel and conduct interviews in China without asking for government approval from Jan. 1 until mid-October 2008. The temporary freedoms do not extend to local Chinese journalists. The group called on the government to free 29 journalists currently jailed in China and to loosen restrictions on local reporters. It also called on the IOC to pressure China more aggressively on press freedom issues. Amnesty's report comes on the heels of one issued last week by Human Rights Watch, which also said the Chinese government had failed to live up to promises of greater human rights, instead clamping down on domestic activists and journalists. Amnesty's release came as six activists were detained Tuesday after scaling down a part of the Great Wall with a large banner that read "One World, One Dream, Free Tibet 2008," the London-based Free Tibet Campaign and Students for a Free Tibet said in an e-mail statement. Activists say China is using the Olympics to underscore its claims on Tibet, which is says it has ruled for centuries. But many Tibetans say their homeland was essentially an independent state for most of that time. Chinese communist troops occupied Tibet in 1951, and Beijing continues to rule the region with a heavy hand. On Monday, police detained journalists at a rare protest in Beijing staged by a free-press advocacy group that accused the Chinese government of failing to meet pledges for greater media freedom. The detentions, which came during a visit to Beijing by International Olympic Committee President Jacques Rogge, followed the unfurling of posters depicting the Olympic rings made from handcuffs by members of Reporters Without Borders on a pedestrian bridge outside the headquarters of the Beijing Olympics planning committee. The Paris-based group said China continues to restrict press freedoms and lock up journalists, political dissidents and activists who publish on the Internet - despite pledges to liberalize made when bidding to stage the games. The Beijing Olympics, which begin Aug. 8, 2008, are a huge source of pride for China. In bidding for the games back in 2001, Chinese leaders promised International Olympic Committee members that the Olympics would lead to an improved climate for human rights and media freedom. Chinese officials have been eager to spread good news about the country's fevered preparations, with all venues except the iconic "Bird's Nest" National Stadium to be finished by the end of the year. Numerous government agencies have been announcing their Olympics-related achievements, from meeting tree-planting goals to setting up a network to monitor for potential disease outbreaks. Etiquette campaigns are afoot to stamp out bad manners like jumping ahead in line, spitting, littering and reckless driving. A campaign to teach English in preparation of the 550,000 expected foreign visitors targets everyone from cab drivers to grandmothers. LINK:

AP article quoted in today's Yomiuri Shimbun: Australian athletes will be told to stay away from Beijing Olympics until the last minute By STEPHEN WADE AP Sports Writer BEIJING (AP) -- Australian athletes will be staying away from next year's Olympics until the last minute, hoping to avoid any filthy air and food problems in the Chinese capital. Australian IOC member John Coates, after meeting Tuesday with heads of other Olympic delegations and Beijing organizers, called Beijing's choking pollution "a prevailing worry for most of us." "We will be not recommending a long period in China before the games," Coates said, a day before the countdown clock on Wednesday reaches one year until the games open. "That only is going to increase the possibility of respiratory or gastric illness - particularly if you are not living in the village." Coates, who is also president of the Australian Olympic Committee, said his athletes would be going to China four or five days before their first events. "They (Chinese organizers) are very, very conscious of it," Coates said. "They knows it's a concern to the IOC. All we can do is trust that they will do everything possible." He said Beijing officials told him that plans were underway to ban vehicles from Beijing's streets, perhaps as early as next week. This would coincide with several weeks of test events in Beijing. "They said cars will be coming off the road for a trial period," Coates said. Tuesday was another smog filled day in the Chinese capital, greeting IOC President Jacques Rogge and hundreds of Olympic officials on hand for Wednesday night's celebration in Tiananmen Square. "It certainly doesn't look too good here in downtown Beijing," Coates said. Coates said he was less concerned about food safety next year. On Monday, Beijing officials said global positioning satellites and other high-tech devices would be used to ensure food safety at the Beijing Olympics. "The IOC pays very special attention to the quality of food in the Olympic Villages," Coates said. "We don't expect that to be a problem, but we will still be advising our athletes to eat in the village, not in local food stores. Be careful with bottled water and take every precaution." LINK:

Forget Celine...what about..... S H A N I A ! ! !

I think the Russians have got a bit carried away with Olympic fever! I can understand the enthusiasm of a city like Moscow for wanting the chance to bid for these Youth Olympics but I feel they need to be realistic and realise that,in the larger context,Russia has already just been awarded a major Olympic event and I doubt that the IOC will want to hand them two such prizes in short order! I feel that these Games are ideally suited for some of the smaller cities and countries who are never likely to stage the full-blown thing to become a part of the Olympic hosting experience.And I have a strong feeling that the IOC will be looking in this direction too particularly to stave off criticism from some quarters that it only seems to be currently awarding its events to the bigger,richer places!

Did it? I had the impression that it was a tradition for the flame to visit each of the 5 continents.Okay then,but I still like the idea.To me,it's just so symbolic of the 5 rings and the worldwide appeal and relevance of the Olympics. Of course each Games is going to be of more practical relevance for the city and country that have been chosen to host them.And each Games reflects something of the flavour and tradition of said host city.It is supposed to be a two-way process isn't it with the Games being used to showcase the host city to the world and maybe provide some much needed regeneration (eg.London 2012) while providing the world (and more specifically the IOC) with a worldwide event that will enable the best athletes anywhere to showcase their talents and make themselves and their countries bask in the glory of their Olympic success.And we look forward to the day when cities from each of the 5 continents will be eligible to host because we look forward to seeing a Games that reflect the flavour of each continent and not just the favoured 2 or 3 as is current,while all the time providing an exciting sporting festival for the rest of the world. After all,if we treat each of the Games as just a parochial Asian or European affair depending on where the host city is located,then why not just invite athletes from that continent to compete and ignore the rest? But that's not what the Olympic movenment is supposed to be about,is it? I must say I find it a little strange to be defending the worldwide nature of the Olympic movement to an enthusiastic and knowledgeable veteran of these boards like yourself.I confess to being a bit of an internationalist and idealist at heart which is what I like about the ideals of the Olympic movement no matter how far the reality may fail to match!!

Hmmm...but it is not just 'an Asian games' is it? The Olympics are a world-wide sporting event that belong to every continent not just the one in which they are being staged.I actually approve of the tradition of the flame touching the soil of each of the 5 continents.The Olympic symbol is made up of the 5 rings after all!

Same here.Just tried it and it keeps starting and stopping as if it has to keep loading each frame separately.Frustrating!

Er..no.Last time anyone looked,Everest was still the highest peak on earth.I haven't heard that it has shrunk or that K2 has grown since they were last measured. The World's 14 Highest Mountain Peaks