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Everything posted by anthonyliberatori

  1. You're correct, it is an inevitable process. We have had successful smaller Games, like Lillehammer, and successful larger Games, like Vancouver. It also proves that it is a host-specific issue, not an Olympic issue. It is also obvious that the issue is not the IOC's strict requirements, but the fact that some countries/cities clearly don't want to. Germany and Austria have the infrastructure and meet the conditions, but neither have hosted Olympics in years. Both also seem unlikely to do so in the current state, unless Graz somehow pulls through. But while on the topic of Sweden, they won't get a Winter Olympics even with Stockholm as the anchor IMO. They have tried for years, between small town bids like Are, and larger-area bids like Falun and Ostersund, and they have continuously failed. Even with Stockholm as the anchor and Are with the snow events, it then becomes the Lake Placid-NYC argument, and that's before we even talk about the conditions of Are or the region. As you stated, the population is too small and cannot support an Olympics, and neither could Lake Placid now, and proved so in 1980 as the Winter Games started to get too large. It's not Sweden's fault that they're geographically disadvantaged for the Winter Olympics requirements, but they do not have a shot against a Canadian bid, especially one from Calgary, or a Swiss or Austrian bid, if they can finally get one through. Plus, although spread out, the Swiss and Austrian bids will have reliable train/highway routes, as the bidding areas already have strong winter tourism infrastructure, and money will go more towards area improvement rather than new venue/infrastructure construction. Hell, I think the IOC would even have a third WOG in Asian and give it to Sapporo in 2026 over Sweden. Sapporo has already proven a successful WOG host, and Stockholm seems like Sweden's last resort of getting a Winter Olympics. I just don't think they have a viable shot, and as stated, if Calgary, Sion or Graz go through, game over for Stockholm. Just my opinion. And it really sucks for Sweden, but maybe they will be one of those nations that could host the Olympics, but chooses not to. Germany has always been an amazing host option, but has bid very few times since after WW2 and has lost all of them. They obviously were not too eager to host, as they could've bid for more Games. Sweden may be forced into doing the same thing, not hosting a Games, despite being a huge winter sports nation. Not because they don't want to, but just that it just isn't feasible or worth the hassle, for the Swedes, IOC, athletes and tourists alike.
  2. That's already the basis of Stockholm 2026, most of the events (ice and ceremonies) being held in Stockholm, and the remaining events (snow) in Åre. Should Ostersund come out of the woodwork, that problem could be mitigated, but Ostersund, like Pyeongchang, would require lots of money spent on venues and infrastructure in order to accommodate the vast amount of tourists. Loses the cheap budget appeal that these European host cities need in order to secure a bid. Sion 2026 is also very spread out, with numerous clusters and very long transit times required between all of them. It could be made easy by the good rail network in Switzerland, but it will still be a very spread out bid. I think the IOC should stick with same country bids before they jump into dual-country bids, because then it will become very hard for tourists and media to attend numerous events, and the country hosting the snow events will get much less money and attention from the deal. Unless the country hosting the snow events was France, Austria, Germany, or any other country with a strong ski/snowboard team would they have a good shot of making a lot of money on snow events over ice events. But all of those countries could host all events by themselves in a centralized city/area, so again, it's just not justified.
  3. Very well said. I have been pleasantly surprised at how well the Games in Pyeongchang have turned out. I can already see a generation being inspired after the many achievements made by Team Korea at home, and given the next Winter Games being coincidentally so close, that will hopefully aide in even more Olympic spirit within the Korea peninsula. I am particularly happy that Korea won a gold in a sliding sport, because that sliding track, which was doomed a white elephant at the start of the Games, may now be able to become a world-class training facility for the likely-growing sliding sports within the country. The same goes for curling. And like you said, Koreans not attending a hockey game between Germany and Canada is the same as the Americans not attending a Biathlon event with all European contenders in a US Olympics. I think it's really important to look back 10-15 years later at a country after hosting, and see how it affected them long term over the short term benefits they saw in the year directly after the Games. Remember, Barcelona 1992 didn't look too good directly after the Games after not bringing in as much money as hoped, but given the vast majority of the budget going towards infrastructure, an airport, a new beach, new hotels, a downtown revitalization, etc, the Olympics are credited to transforming Barcelona and growing it into the economic and tourist hub it is today, and that wasn't achieved in the time immediately following the Olympics. There is much more to Olympic legacy than attendance during the Games.
  4. I'm sorry, it was a late night, don't know what I was thinking. As much as I love the Olympics, I will enjoy getting more than 5 hours of sleep each night next week once they're over
  5. I hope you didn't take me to be a supporter of exclusively North American/European bids, as that is not the case whatsoever. I fully supported Pyeongchang on its road to the Games, and I'm very excited for Beijing's 2022 Games as well. I think many of us, though, who enjoy the long lasting legacy of the movement, are leaning more towards a North American or European bid. It's justified because 2026 will mark the end of either a 16 year break from the Rockies or a 20 year break from the Alps, so it's understandable why people are more supportive of Calgary and Sion than they are of Sapporo. However, after many Olympics in repeat areas, the mood of the IOC and on this website will shift to bringing to Games to new areas. After the US and Australia, the Games were brought to Greece and China. After England, the Games were brought to Brazil. However since the turn of the century, It has actually been a balance of typical hosting areas vs new hosting areas for the Winter Games. 2002, 2006 and 2010 were all in the Rockies/Alps, but 2014, 2018, and 2022 were all given to new hosting area. That is solely based on a mathematical approach, we haven't even factored in personal reasoning, the country's existing presence of Winter Sports, or the bid's longevity plan. I do agree that the Olympics need to see new places and new horizons, but for 2026, I would be almost contradicting myself as a supporter of the movement to not get behind a North American or Alps bid, it is just too risky at this point in time. Luckily, every area that is bidding has hosted as some point in time, with the only real bad choice being Stockholm. 2026 is looking optimistic. Hopefully, a successful 2026 and 2030 in the traditional areas can bring back another winter olympics to Japan in 2034.
  6. That would be amazing. I am seriously hoping they do some sort of tribute to American music, or movies, given the city. After London 2012, I somewhat want to show up the Brits with some of our famous music through the decades. I also have a feeling we will try and show up Rio's segment on diversity and inclusion, and likely do our best to show up anything Tokyo and Paris does well. It's just so hard to predict what will happen in 2028 because it is 10 years away. No clue what the state of the country will be, if the talk of diversity, inclusion, etc drops, then our ideas of what LA's ceremonies will be will likely change with the culture. Adds to the suspense though.
  7. Good points. The IOC had similar ideas when it elected Rio to for the 2016 Olympics, Pyeongchang for the 2018 Olympics, and Beijing for the 2022 Olympics. The goal of all of those Olympics was to spread sport, specifically sports that are not common, to new areas and encourage athleticism globally. It also gave the host country, more so Brazil and South Korea than China, a chance to show the world its culture in its past, current and future state (Beijing recently hosted the Summer Games so that's why I didn't include it). With Russia being a large Winter Sports nation, as well as the city of Sochi having a very smart bid completely based around encouraging tourism to an already-tourist-popular area, it made logical sense to award them the 2014 Olympics. However, the corruption and overspending have now pushed these typical host countries, like Switzerland, Austria, Germany and Norway, who continuously do well in Winter Olympics and would (and have) easily host successful Games, away. So while the few Olympics bouncing around to new locations has been good to help grow different sports in other countries and expose new cultures on the world stage, it is critical for the Olympic movement that 2026 is awarded to a city/country that already has popular winter sports, and can prove to the rest of those veteran countries that hosting the Winter Olympic Games and being successful is not a thing of the past. I am hoping for a Canadian, Swiss or Austrian Olympics in 2026, not because I want an Olympics back in the "veteran countries", but, quite frankly, I just want future Winter Olympics
  8. My favorite scene from any Opening Ceremony. Maybe it was because I was young and American and identified with it well, and despite the criticism it drew, this was always and still is my favorite scene from any Olympics. Cannot believe it was over 20 years ago. I really hope LA does something similar in 2028, because as much as I do support and hope for a presentation of the US on the global scale and how American culture is intertwined globally, I would love an all-American ceremony segment that won't need narration. Many parts in recent ceremonies require narration to foreign viewers, and I'm hoping when I'm back on the other end of the spectrum, we will get those moments back here in the US. Thanks for this and making my day a little bit better!
  9. You should change the channel to the USA-Czech Republic hockey game. I think I saw more people at a local high school's basketball game this weekend. It's pretty upsetting, especially considering they claim to have over 90% of the tickets sold. Hopefully China can fill events, at least the stadium events based in Beijing, as they have the population.The alpine ones out in the distance are still up in the air though, we'll see. But you're correct. Calgary 2026 and Salt Lake 2030 are both looking better and better every day.
  10. Sion has a little over half the population Annecy does. It's a little more spread out bid than Annecy, but until Sion officially drops out, they are still in this race. You are correct that a European host would likely host a much better WOG, but in order for that to happen, one needs to make it to the final voting round. I would HOPE the IOC would be smart a not let a European city like Stockholm or Sion slip away, and maybe they could opt for a dual allocation so neither slips away. But with cities like Calgary and Salt Lake stepping up, we have an opportunity to revive the Winter Olympics. Again I say, as long as Beijing is regulated and hopefully both 2026 and 2030, but at least just 2026, is awarded to a North American or European host, we will be in the clear. In reality, we have seen this before. After the Munich 1972 attacks, Denver dropping 1976, Montreal 1976 and Lake Placid 1980's financial disasters, and the politics that ruined Moscow 1980, the Olympic movement was looking slim. Sarajevo brought a profit, but those Games would later be remembered through scenes of the rings and venues as a backdrop for civil war photos. LA didn't even win 1984 through vote, it was automatically awarded to them after Tehran dropped out. After LA, Calgary, Seoul, and Barcelona all staged successful, profitable Olympics, the Olympic movement was back in the clear up until the past few years after Sochi and Rio. So, the IOC just has to play their cards right, and the dual allocation of 24 and 28 shows they understand that. We will see a WOG back in Europe asap.
  11. Just went and saw it today, and loved it! But ugh I know! The second the coach said it I turned to the person I saw it with like "NO!!! THAT"S NOT WHAT HAPPENED!", forgetting I was in a movie theatre and talking is frowned upon. The people around me probably didn't like me then, but oh well. I provided them a service only "Oly-nerds" (Is that what we're called???) can
  12. I got curious and watched this last night and then subsequently watched the 2008 OC. This handover is definitely my favorite, with Tokyo's coming at a close second. I am VERY excited for Beijing's handover, I cannot even imagine how grand it will be!
  13. Best news of the day. How are you enjoying Pyeongchang?
  14. Before anyone flames me, I was referencing Annecy due to who I was talking to. I understand Annecy bid for 2018 not 2022, but this sentence did not come out worded the way I would've liked.
  15. They needed the train well before the Olympics, that train would've likely been built, regardless of the Olympics. And having to build alpine venues is much cheaper than having to build a 10,000+ person arena for ice hockey in a country where hockey isn't popular. Many of the venues in the 2008 Olympic park will hold the ice sports, and the alpine areas will be built. But choosing Beijing lowered the risk of the host spending insane amounts of money on new arenas, as they're already built and just need reconfiguration. I know Annecy was cheaper, but with what the IOC had, Beijing was the best option. There is not much we can do about it now other than hope that the IOC finally steps its foot down to ensure Beijing doesn't go overboard, and the 2026 host is in North America or Western Europe. I would agree though that tickets have been on the rise and that the IOC has been claiming more and more money each time over the host, so I would agree that that will play into it and I would love to see that reversed. But, I took you seriously up until you wish failure on Beijing. Are you still that hurt that Annecy lost? Annecy didn't only get beat by Pyeongchang, but it was also beat by Munich. Annecy was never winning. Get that through your thick skull. There is much more to the Winter Olympics than skiing. All Annecy has was nearby world-class slopes, Munich's was far away and Pyeongchang's wasn't developed. Every time you slash China, remember that with the the world's largest population, and a large tourist boom coming from nearby Asian countries, Pyeongchang was not a bad decision by the IOC, and Beijing was the best of the two choices it had. Not good, but not as bad as Almaty would've been. Again, nothing we can do now.
  16. At the moment it is rather cheap, and the IOC claims it will be the first Olympics under the "new set of norms". I'm not saying it'll stay at the $3.Whatever Billion it claimed when it was awarded, but hopefully the IOC won't allow it to go up too much because they know the future depends on Beijing not going crazy. I'm not fully believing the propaganda at all, because this is Beijing we're talking about and we all witnessed 2008, but since most of the venues are already there, they have less of a risk of running up the cost than they did before when nothing was built.
  17. In terms of what a host city has to do to stage a "successful" Olympics, Sochi did a lot. The venues have been kept up and used, the Games turned over a profit, infrastructure was brought to the area, tourism/international recognition has increased, etc. Sochi had an amazing Opening Ceremony full of Russian history that many still remember, and the Games had many memorable athletic feats as well. All in all, Sochi was a "successful" host city. But as stated, the discrepancies come in when you go to talk about legacy. Sochi severely tarnished the idea that Olympic host cities need to break their entire economies and backs in order to put on the most extravagant show for the entire world to see. It started in Beijing, started to get forgotten after the successes of Vancouver and London, but Sochi rebirthed and fortified the idea that the Olympics are to only be held by those willing to go above and beyond. The political corruption that coincided with the Games, such as the Ukraine invasion and the pocketing of much of the Olympic costs by the government did not help host cities who were avidly looking at 2022, leaving the IOC with just-as-extravagant-minded China and unfamiliar-strict-law Kazakhstan. To make things even worse, the doping scandal has now tarnished the Russian athletics and Olympic credibility. So, was Sochi successful as a host city? Yes, tourism has increased, and given its smart conception to now become labeled as both a summer and winter destination, it is becoming Russia's own concept of Vegas or Orlando, and it will serve them nicely in the future. But was Sochi successful for the Olympic movement as a whole? No, and it has put one of the largest holes in the movement of any host city IMO. 20 years from now, Sochi will be remembered as the Olympics that put their city on the map, while almost tearing the entire Olympic movement off of it in the process. Now we just have to hope that Compact-But-Effective Pyeongchang and Cheap-But-Extravagant Beijing can help secure some legacy host or host countries for 2026 and 2030.
  18. You're correct. Pyeongchang is turning out mostly successful (knock on wood) and Beijing's cost is very low, so hopefully more cities will be interested after these two Olympics are over. But having cities like Sion, Stockholm, Calgary, Salt Lake City and Denver interested in future WOG is VERY good. I know they have Sapporo as an option as well but I agree with you, the Games need to return to the Rockies or Alps if they want to keep up the longevity of the Winter Olympics and host cities. I'm hoping Calgary goes all the way through, because the IOC would be stupid not to pick a city who is experienced, and was very successful when they hosted. Also given the nature of how that bid has come to be, I feel that it will be a very long time until they get interest again if they lose, so I hope the IOC is picking up on that. With the USA already saying Salt Lake is interested in 2030, the IOC could be on its way to dodging a bullet, hopefully. I just hope they make the right decisions and move away from glitz and glamour and back to legacy and opportunity.
  19. Tulsa will come around sooner or later, likely with pictures of Annecy at the moment or some picture of a French athlete who could've won Gold had Annecy won. I'm glad you're enjoying your time in Pyeongchang though!
  20. I would imagine so, it's the main beach resort of the entire country in the summer. It developed itself as a winter sports destination now as well, so that's no surprise. That's not in in question. What is is the economic benefit of a train that runs a Secondary-Secondary route vs a train that runs a Secondary-Hub route
  21. That is true. The installation of the train is very good for the area to grow its tourism and further develop the region. However, tourism markets change constantly. What if the Russians are suddenly drawn to a different ski resort in Russia, or in Kazakhstan, or somewhere else in the Balkans or Alps? What if Russians start to prefer beach holidays along the south Turkish coast again? The Sochi Olympics were great in the sense of developing a local area for tourism, and I'm glad to see that the area is growing their numbers, and Pyeongchang had a similar concept in that regard. However, back to the train in particular, Sochi's train will serve tourists whose markets will change every single year. Pyeongchang's train will serve people yearround, a mix of tourists, commuters, bussinesspeople, etc. I'm not trying to devalue the entirety of Sochi's train and its importance to the area's legacy, but I am pointing out that Pyeongchang's train will likely have a much greater economic outcome. Hence why the large amount of money spent on the train was justifiable.
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