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anthonyliberatori

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Everything posted by anthonyliberatori

  1. This is completely unfair. If that rail lines becomes vital in developing the region, and not even in the tourist sense, the Olympics will have much larger of an impact than you could conclude just by looking at numbers. Take Barcelona for example. Didn't turn over nearly as much money as LA or Seoul, but with the creation of new beaches, improved highways, a redeveloped port and downtown, and several new hotel rooms, plus the airport improvements, Barcelona 1992 helped paved the way for the city to grow into both a tourist and business hub, while bettering the lives of the people who live there. So who was more more "successful", LA or Barcelona? Both were in their own regard. If Pyeongchang creates a new legacy of its own with its new infrastructure improvements, who are you to say Pyeongchang was unsuccessful?
  2. I think the exact opposite ... The IOC will (or, better, should) do whatever it possibly can at this point in time to make sure the 2026 Olympics go to someone who will bring back bids from the traditional nations. While Sapporo was a successful host and would host an amazing Olympics, in the eyes of the IOC, it should sit second to a bid from the USA, Canada, or any Western/Northern European bid, minus Stockholm. The IOC has said Asian cities will not be excluded, but that is likely due to the growing momentum on the continent towards the Olympics... They just got done with their first of three consecutive Games, and although you disagree, it turned out rather successful. There is a lot of talk in Asia right now to try and bid for another. But, the talk among the rest of the planet, among the nations who won most of the medals at PC, and among potential host cities globally differs from that of Asia. I agree with your comment above that 2026 in Asia would be a bad move by the IOC. However, I think they're aware of that, and should prevent it from happening.
  3. Lillehammer 2026 or 2030 ?????? The fact that we could possibly have Calgary and Lillehammer, or Salt Lake City and Lillehammer, competing for the Olympics is good news .... let's hope they all stay in tact. Do you think Norway could push forward?
  4. That's somewhat contradictory. It seems to me like you're saying that Orlando does not ever have a shot at a USOC bid, but at the same time, has the technical capabilities to host and could put a bid together? What else would it need? Obviously it would need a lot, such as national approval, a wondrous budget, and a low pool for the USOC to choose from, but if Orlando has the technical capabilities, could possibly put a package together, and has public support, the only thing standing in between them and the IOC is the USOC. Is my argument based in hypothetical statements, of course. I completely understand why Orlando has a very slim to none chance of hosting a Summer Olympics. But the fact of the matter is, many US cities could muster up a reasonable bid and send it to the IOC. Given the state of the Olympics right now, I know the IOC would love anything coming out of the USA or a Western European nation, that's just the way the direction of the IOC is right now. After Beijing 2008, it was focused on awarding the Olympics to places that were either new or haven't been seen in a while on the Olympic stage, like Rio, Pyeongchang, and Tokyo. Take away Lake Placid 1980, and the US has ultimately pleased the IOC with each Games. Obviously, the Atlanta bomb and Salt Lake bribery didn't sit well and could be justifying reasons for our 26 year absence of hosting, but who picked up the Olympic movement after the terrible 70s? The US. Who is about to pick it up again? The US. Although they had no competition in 1984, the IOC soon realized things worked out in their favor, because they were quick to elect Atlanta for 1996 shortly after against Toronto, Manchester and Melbourne, and Salt Lake for 2002 shortly after that. The IOC has trust in the United States. Limiting ourselves to Los Angeles is definitely unfair to both the USA and the IOC. As stated, a city like Atlanta, with not much more than a massive airport, keen US civil rights history and good budget beat out historically-moved Athens, Calgary momentum-moved Toronto, and a strong Melbourne bid. Anything can happen when the conditions are right, ie the IOC is desperate for a good Olympics. As for the process, you're right, it's unfair. We get stuck with cities like Rio de Janiero over cities like Chicago for the Olympics, which just proved bad for the longevity of the Olympics. If you honestly feel as though cities like Beijing and Rio de Janiero are better suited as candidates for the Olympics solely for being the staple cities of their countries, over cities like Philadelphia, Boston and San Francisco, I'll have to respectfully disagree. Especially in a time where the IOC knows they have to shape up the bid process and expectations of what a bid would/should/must have and do, I think it is okay to extend our minds past conventional bidding options and look into new ones, as the conventional ones have begun to prove unsuccessful in recent days and draw criticism. With these new measures set to reduce costs, Paris and LA are the best cities to show the world how to do the Olympics right. But who will emerge after 2028? Do we want cities that already have a majority of venues readily available? Because many of those are going to be in the USA, and even more could be added with an Atlanta approach of a regional, more spread out bid, or Barcelona approach, with a whole urban renewal project, with the Games to culminate. While many of you think cities like Orlando (and I do too, again, my argument was based in hypotheticals before I get flamed) seem far-fetched as Olympics hosts, remember that once the Tokyo-Paris-LA wave is done, we are going to have a new set of cities to choose from for the 2030-2040 Games. Are you really telling me Cape Town would and should beat out Philadelphia? Cairo should beat out San Francisco? Kuala Lumpur should beat out Chicago?
  5. If need be, maybe. It also depends on who the proposed 2030 host is though. There are still a lot of variables that could go into that, as official bids haven't even been placed. I would hope that the IOC wouldn't let a North American or European city slip away through a vote, just like they didn't want one 2024 host to win and the other slip away, because the Games need secure future bids in order to get it out of the current rut. However, lots can happen between now and then. Ask again in a year, which the Pyeongchang longterm legacy starts to form, bids are final, and cities are preparing to vote. Depending on the situation with the possible 2026 World Cup and LA 2028, the US may not be willing to step up for 2030. Calgary and Sion could drop out. All of these "coulds" we both oh so love
  6. If your counterpoint follows the same basis as my original point, it's not a successful counterpoint. You didn't prove much other than you can play into semantics and hindsight like me. But I do agree, Salzburg was a host not worth losing. Would've been a successful host in a beautiful alpine town, and would've opened the doors for Munich and Oslo to be vying for 2022, instead of Beijing and Almaty. But again, we can't change it. All we can really do is hope for a North American or European host for 2026 and 2030, preferably Calgary and Salt Lake/Denver/Reno or whoever makes it out.
  7. An Orlando Olympics is actually not as far-fetched as you may think, they were in contention for 2024 after all, and were considering a 2028 exploration as well.The city 100% has the needed hotels and airports already in place, and with a refurbishment of Camping World (about 15k more temporary seats) and a renovation of ESPN Wide World of Sports, Orlando also has many venues in place. They could also pull a Montreal 1976 approach and refurbish events post-Games into attractions like the BioDome, because they have the tourism.Orlando is also the 2nd fastest growing metro area in the USA (Second to Ft.Meyers), and ranks first in projected job growth (Forbes). This is huge when considering the future of the city, as it has made it clear that it doesn't want to be known solely for its theme parks, and what better way to do that than with an Olympics? Think back to Atlanta in 1996. Coca Cola gave a lot to the bid since it was in their hometown, and that was a huge draw for the IOC. Disney/ESPN would also likely give a large sum of money towards the Games, which would not only make it attractive to taxpayers who now don't have to pay so much, but ultimately for the IOC. Going off of a Sochi concept, the new facilities could be built/based with purpose for future events, so the new arenas could host future events like NCAA National Championships or Olympic trials, etc, and Orlando certainly has the infrastructure to do so. And if not, money could be spent on infrastructure, because like Barcelona 1992, Orlando is still a major tourist city. Also, who said it had to be in the middle of summer? Sydney broke that rule. No reason Orlando can't stage a May, September, or even early October Olympics while still pleasing the correlating season to the majority of viewers/athletes. And about culture, there's a vast difference between Vegas and Orlando. Orlando is home to Disney, and while many, including myself, do not find loads of allure in the company, we cannot act like it is not a globally significant company and trademark of the USA. Imagine an Opening Ceremony segment full of references and characters from the famous movies, all directed by the Disney team. While it's not the Olympics theme I would personally go for, it is something the USA is known for globally. LA 1984 drew criticism for its large use of cowboys, as "that's not what all of America is", and so did Atlanta in 1996 for the use of a step team, chrome pickup trucks and cheerleaders, for the same reason. You honestly think Beijing 2008, London 2012 and Rio 2016 did a mass representation of their local city as a whole? Most opening ceremonies find a way to appease international stereotypes and images, while not offending those at home. I highly doubt those in England listen to the Beatles and watch Mr.Bean every day of their lives, but London 2012 surely made it seem that way. The Girl from Ipanema is over 50 years old, but during the Rio Opening Ceremony, those in attendance sang it like it was brand new. What I'm trying to say is is that Orlando has a unique culture, and while Disney obviously wouldn't do the entire OC, it would make logical sense, and would be understood around the world. Plus, look very good in the process. I understand what happened to Boston, and why Seattle and San Fran didn't go far. That doesn't make them bad Olympic cities though. They could very well be amazing hosts, just lacked the support, and didn't compete against LA. Same goes for international cities like Oslo for 2022. Support from a country/city now shouldn't ultimately dictate the future of a city as a host. I do expect Boston to rise up again for a bid for any of the Games in 2040, and depending on who is in local office at the time/the vibe of the city, I also expect them to be successful, maybe even becoming the USOC pick. There is no doubt that LA is our best Olympic city, but as stated, Orlando, Boston and Philadelphia are also promising in their own ways. Limiting ourselves to just LA is very unfair to the rest of the country, as the entire country doesn't wear flip flops daily and go surfing. I hope once the idea of an Olympics is looked at in a positive light again, those cities step up and start exploring options.
  8. I'm well aware of what hindsight 20/20 is. And I was very pleased with Pyeongchang 2018, so much that I would've rather it picked for 2014, so Munich could've had 2018, and Oslo would've had 2022. I'm actually upset that I don't get to see a German Winter Olympics AND a South Korean Winter Olympics. I was really a cheerleader for both for different reasons. What I was trying to get at was that I wouldn't have changed the way 2018 happened, as Pyeongchang successfully delivered an amazing Olympics, but going on your point about "Life is always about perspective & the shoulda, woulda, couldas. But in the end, you still can’t change any of them", I can't erase Sochi 2014 from ever happening, which is what I would like to do. A man once said: "Life is always about perspective & the shoulda, woulda, couldas. But in the end, you still can’t change any of them." Sure, Munich could've voted itself out, just like any host could've. But for someone who makes a claim about not letting hindsight distract from the present, that seems to be the basis of your entire post.
  9. Oh no, I'm 100% with you. I am not all too supportive of a DC Olympics, because after living there for so many years, I understand that that money could go to very many other things the city desperately needs more. I was just referencing the hype they think the Amazon move would bring them ,plus the defeat for 2024/2028 Olympics. But I have always thought Orlando and Philadelphia would make amazing Summer Olympics hosts, I hope Philadelphia could use a Barcelona or Atlanta approach and use their Olympics as an urban renewal project, as Philly has many of the venues, just not the transportation like you said. Orlando lacks a little bit of both but to me could easily become a Summer Olympics city. Not Washington. San Francisco, Boston and Seattle are also on my radar for eventual Summer bids.
  10. Which is why I hope the IOC keeps them on a leash. If Beijing turns out to be another Sochi, the Winter Olympics could very well be in danger if Calgary or Sion aren't elected for 2026 and another North American/European city elected 2030. Large, flashy, expensive, and single use venues are what we need to get away from, not encourage. Remember, Sochi did make a profit on their Games. Hosting 2014 did wonders on giving the already popular tourist area a new airport, new hotels, better infrastructure/transportation, and a ski resort so the area could be popular yearround. As a host, Sochi had a mostly positive legacy. But for the Olympic movement as a whole, it was completely detrimental. China using this opportunity to grow Winter Sports in its country and show those in countries with rising economies in Southeast Asia that China is the place to go for a winter vacation is great, but if they end up becoming another Sochi, the Games could be in trouble. I'm really hoping the IOC does all in their power to make sure Beijing keeps a close budget, as there is no real need to pass Pyeongchang and God forbid Sochi in spending. Most venues already exist. Plus, they already proved themselves to the world with an Olympics in 2008.
  11. Yeah, I also think the MoCo/DC bid looks the strongest. Looks like maybe a DC Summer Olympics won't be far off in the next 20 years?
  12. I agree, I stated in my verdict of PC that I am on the lookout for another Seoul bid. They already have many of the existing venues left over from 1988, and could host a successful games with impeccable organization. But the above poster is right, Singapore and Kuala Lumpur are coming up, I wouldn't be surprised if there is a aserious bid from one of them in the near future.
  13. A friend of mine is going to Rio tomorrow and asked me if there is any place in town to purchase Olympic merchandise. Are there any places left two years later to buy stuff from Rio 2016? Thank you to anyone who helps!
  14. No, I do understand this, I have spent a lot of time in China. But for the future of sustaining WOG bids, it is crucial that China remains on a budget and doesn't try to top the $30B USD 2008 Games, because if they do, no Western city will want to host the Winter Games. China originally proposed under $4B USD. If they are successful with staying around there, they will cut Pyeongchang's price in half, and start to erase Sochi's terrible economic legacy, which will be crucial in determining the future of the Winter Olympics. So, yes, China getting futuristic and expensive is rather concerning. Although the fate of 2026 will already be sealed in 2022, we must remember Demver 1976 and the countless bids pulled by referendum. If Beijing goes crazy with 2022, I wouldn't put it past a Calgary or Sion 2026 bid to pull themselves out through referendum, even after being awarded the Games next year.
  15. After the white elephants of Brazil 2014, the "I don't know yet but after Sochi 2014, something" from Russia 2018, the EXORBITANT cost of Qatar 2022, if the US/Canada/Mexico bid is not awarded the 2026 FIFA World Cup and loses out to Morocco, the FIFA World Cup will be over as we know it. After the negative legacy Qatar is going to leave for prospective host countries about how much they have to spend, and the need for brand new stadiums for the Morocco 2026 bid, it is very unlikely anybody that's economically feasible would want to step forward for 2030. FIFA is on a doomed path, one similar to what the Winter Olympics will be on if a North American or Europe host is not awarded 2026. But FIFA will end as we know it if Morocco is chosen over a joint bid from the US-Canada-Mexico. Especially considering the jump to 48 teams with the North American bid having to build literally no stadiums, that will be the straw that broke the camel's back.
  16. Also, how did I forget Soohorang!? Best mascot of recent Games in my opinion, loved that little tiger. He will seriously be missed in future Games.
  17. Pyeongchang 2018. What a memorable Olympics. And not for the reasons plaguing many of the recent ones. I am very pleased with Pyeongchang and how the Olympics turned out as a whole. As many of us on here feel, it was important that these Games took a stark turn away from the direction of the previous two, and I am very happy to say that they did. The easiest thing for me to do would be to do a pros/cons list to resist sounding repetitive. Pros The organization. What a thumbs up to the Koreans. The organization of these Games seemed impeccable, and those working the events, from paid workers to volunteers, seem to contribute so much to the success. I have only heard good stories. Nothing but praise for the organization of these Games. Ceremonies. While some considered them dull, or too techno, I think they were both very good for South Korea and showed what their country was, what it is now, and where it is headed. This was exactly their goal. I enjoyed the Closing Ceremony much more than the Opening Ceremony, I felt like they had worked out kinks and were able to do so much more (ie the live drone experience instead of the pre-recorded one). The addition of the performing KPop groups was also great, it seemed to be an amazing representation of the Korean popular culture. Venues. Although small compared to Vancouver and Sochi, many of the venues very practical and plain, but served their purpose. I enjoy this model much more than the wild Sochi areas and the originally proposed bicycle helmet stadium for Tokyo 2020. Also a good model of sustainability for future hosts, more expensive does not always mean better. The feel. I really enjoyed the return to a small town Olympics, the first of this kind since 1994. After years of big city/tourist-centered Olympics, it was great to return to a small valley where the Games seemed to naturally come together. The coastal arenas and snow trails were not too far off of each other, and this proved very helpful in the successful organization and presentation of the Games. The stories. For once in a LONG time, the stories of these Olympics will not be ballooning costs and negative politics. The prime stories of these Olympics revolve around the athletes, and their conquests, and it was nice to return to that. Of course North Korea will always remain a part of the narrative, but in my opinion, after the first week, that all faded off. The only piece of political headline likely to follow the Games si the unified team entrance, and that’s not too much of a bad thing. The look. Again, I really appreciated the less glamourous look that Sochi and Vancouver had started, it was nice returning to a larger focus on the athletes and the entire Olympic movement than the host nation and their own self gratitude. Team South Korea. What a feat to win the first ever curling and sliding medals for your host country, in your country. Both of those venues were doomed to become white elephants as well, so hopefully the athletic conquests will allow for those arenas to have life breathed into them long after the Olympics are over as more take interest. Message of Peace While the presence of North Korea could be debated by many, it seemed to provide an amazing example of the Olympic spirit that echoed throughout the entire Games. Like Rio’s focus on the environment, it was nice to add the theme of peace to the Games, that not only touched on problems Korea faces at home with those up north, but problems that affect us all as a planet. Cons NBC for Americans. God Katie Couric was annoying. And the TV broadcasting focus was rather annoying as well. I understand as Americans, we all love a 20 minute snippet of how a small town skier from the US made it to the Olympics, but did those have to be broadcasted during the primteime coverage as events took place? I noticed multiple times when Team USA videos and promos were shown as athletes from other countries competed, and stopped when the Americans or famous athletes went to compete. I understand why it’s done though, because a figure skater from Slovakia doesn’t bring views, but it was annoying from an Olympic enthusiast perspective. Legacy Plan. Although I stated above that I am hopefully those certain arenas find future purposes, the legacy plan was not stressed during the bidding process, so at the moment, many venues don’t serve particular longterm purposes. As a supporter of sustainable Olympics, I cannot support the lack of a legacy plan. Lack of Attendance. The problem seriously plagued these Olympics, but not to the proportion many predicted. The Koreans showed out to events they had a good chance of getting a medal in, but not to the traditional European sports, like Downhill skiing. While they claimed over 90% of the tickets were sold, it did not appear that way on TV. Certainly not a good image for future hosts. However, I heard it was the same in 1988 and 2002 for the Summer Games and World Cup, and that’s okay. At this point, Korea has staged every large international competition, they can decide for future bids what will be the most profitable. The Winter Olympics *appeared* to be the least. Removal of sacred trees. Although inevitable for the construction of a proper downhill run, it is understandable why there was significant backlash to this. At the end of the day, I’m walking away from Pyeongchang 2018 optimistic as hell for the future. The Koreans put on an amazing show in some great venues, organized by some amazing individuals. I can concur with above posters that I feel that “the Olympics are back”. For the first time in years, I feel as though we’re moving in the right direction, back towards Calgary 1988 and Barcelona 1992. As stated, these Games are leaving me a feeling of hope. A hope that the Koreans develop a winter sports culture in wake of these Games. A hope that the Olympics leave a positive economic legacy on the country and region. A hope that 20 years down the road, they are looked back on as a positive moment in expressing Korean culture globally. Although it is difficult to determine a legacy now, I can hope that it will be positive. A lot will depend just much the Koreans and nearby Asian nations pick up skiing and snowboarding, and continue to visit the region after the international attention is turned away. Hope only goes so far, though, so I will continue to follow up with Pyeongchang once the Games are over and see how the Games really affected the local area. Not going to lie, I am hoping for another Seoul summer bid. Seoul made an amazing host in 1988, and Pyeongchang also proved successful in 2018, despite the lack of winter sports interest in the country before the Games. Korea has proven an amazing host for international sporting events, and I cannot be anymore happy with the organization of the event. My god was it such a good change from Rio 2016. All in all, I would place Pyeongchang 5th on my list of the All-Time best Winter Olympics with a score of 82/100, falling behind Vancouver(95/100), Lillehammer (93/100), Calgary (88/100) and Salt Lake City (86/100). That says a lot to me, especially considering I went in with lower expectations. What a surprise I was in for. Again I say, thumbs up Korea.
  18. Salt Lake City did, actually.... https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/olympics/2018/02/07/salt-lake-city-is-1st-in-us-to-seek-2030-winter-olympic-bid/110193844/ https://www.reuters.com/article/us-olympics-2030-saltlakecity/salt-lake-city-expects-to-bid-for-2030-winter-games-idUSKBN1ED09E https://www.pressherald.com/2018/02/07/salt-lake-city-plans-bid-for-2030-olympics/
  19. I will not believe anything anymore until Bach pulls the name out of the envelope. Munich was considered a shoe-in for 2018, and who won? A small mountain town in South Korea with minimal established winter sports infrastructure. I loved Pyeongchang and I'm not dissing them at all, and I'm very glad Pyeongchang was chosen over Munich, but on a comparison scale, Munich was likely the better choice, especially when viewed from a 2018 lens instead of a 2011 lens. Oh, and the infamous Oslo 2022 bid. All Oslo had to do was stay in the race. Hell, all Stockholm and Krakow had to do was stay in the race. But after the financial disaster of Sochi 2014, all of them eventually pulled away (Lviv due to political concerns but I didn't have my hopes up for them at all). Within a yearlong timeframe, we went from the idea of bouncing from Sochi to Pyeongchang to Oslo, to Sochi to Pyeongchang to Beijing - a city with minimal snowfall. So, I am not going to get my hopes up for anything. Calgary's bid isn't even final yet, those in Alberta could still shoot it down, and could always pull a Denver 1976 as well. I am very optimistic, and will be hoping daily for the next year that the IOC does what's good for the movement as a whole and focuses on North American and European host cities, but given the fate of some recent host city elections, nothing is certain until your name comes out of that envelope.
  20. I enjoyed the Closing, much more than the Opening to be honest. While I did keep my expectations a little lower, because SK is not high-tech China or historically eloquent to a Westerner as the Russians, I was pleasantly surprised with just how much I enjoyed the ceremonies as a whole. I got chills numbers of times during the closing ceremony, I felt the segments were much more interesting than the first. They also had the live drones instead of the recorded ones so I did enjoy that. I also enjoyed less of a reliance on pre-recorded videos that the Opening Ceremony had. Soohorang was cute, probably my favorite mascot from any Olympics, and the KPop was amazing. EXO seemed to use the layout of the stadium and the seatback LED pads to their advantage and it really added to the overall show. Can't knock the Koreans, they really went out with a bang. Good for them honestly, they did not disappoint. Beijing's handover was great. Still think I love the Athens 2004 one a little bit more, because it was much less high-tech and to me had a much larger wow-factor (maybe because it was China finally showing itself to the whole world like this for the first time), but it was still enjoyable. I'm questioning the presence of whales in the handover though that were projected on the ground, Beijing is landlocked???? and dry???? But all in all, I loved it. I'm hoping the pandas are adapted as the mascot. Maybe not as scary-looking, but I would enjoy a panda as the mascot. Overall, very optimistic for Beijing! Loved the "Welcome to/See you in Beijing" segment, I liked the emphasis on winter sports in China as well. Something they need to start building now so it's popular by 2022. Gotta keep my ceremony review short and simple so I can go all out for my full Games verdict later tonight
  21. Loved the handover! China outdid China, which is exactly what I wanted to see
  22. I'm still hoping they do though. The UK and the USA wouldn't have to build a stadium at all, and other than colliding with the Commonwealth Games in Birmingham, scheduling shouldn't be a major issue. It's not like FIFA would be asking either to drop billions just because. Hell, the US is avidly looking to host 2026. They could always do a Euro 2020 approach as well, and commit single stadiums in single cities rather than an entire country. There certainly are ways around a Qatar WC. But you're right, it's rather unlikely. I will surely be hoping for it, but I will not get my hopes up too far. I'll believe it when I see it.
  23. https://youtu.be/K5RJBInCI1M Beijing 2022 published this two days ago, obviously preparing for the large influx of online searches they were likely to get once the Closing Ceremony of Pyeongchang happened and the focus turned to Beijing. Many of the venues in the video look much more futuristic (and expensive) than the initial bid proposal videos and photos, which is somewhat concerning. I hope these modern designs aren't breaking the budget.
  24. I watched it, I felt somewhat sorry for the Koreans, but at the same time, they only made their country proud, and also contributed to the longterm legacy Pyeongchang 2018 will leave for the country in terms of encouraging and growing the sport. Cinderella stories only go so far. Onto the next Cinderella Story, the German and Russian hockey game!
  25. Says the one who refuses to imagine a Winter Olympics in any place other than Europe or North America....
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