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Too Many Olympic Bid Losers, IOC Chief Says; Vows Further Changes To Come


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47 minutes ago, budse said:

Perhaps it's time to separate Olympics and Paralympics bid. Since these two games governed by different organization and maybe can reduce the cost of host city to host two games in the same year. 

Or perhaps another idea is staging these two games in different year but in the same bid.

Sadly, that's exactly the opposite of the real logic, which is to hold the Olympics and Paralympics as close together in time as possible, so they can benefit from the same temporary facilities (including temporary personnel).

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8 hours ago, FYI said:

And besides. as nice as some Madrid I think is like Toronto, as far as the interest of the IOC goes of wanting to go there.

 

Now that would be an interesting showdown to see! Both of them have had an interest in hosting the game for decades. Both have a very laidback personality. Madrid has a massive cultural background, perfect summer weather for hosting, and an insanely good public transportation system. Toronto has a stronger economy as of right now and has the benefit of being in the eastern time zone. Could be a great showdown for 2028 if neither LA or Paris decide to return if they lose the 2024 bid.

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3 hours ago, JMarkSnow2012 said:

Sadly, that's exactly the opposite of the real logic, which is to hold the Olympics and Paralympics as close together in time as possible, so they can benefit from the same temporary facilities (including temporary personnel).

that's also possible.. but the travel grants to Olympic family and Paralympic family including IFs, then NOCs and NPCs are quite huge also. If they can split into two different bid mean different host city, and the same situation like Rio can be avoided which they move the Paralympic budget to Olympic.

or different time frame so they can split the budget into two financial years.

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7 hours ago, budse said:

Perhaps it's time to separate Olympics and Paralympics bid. Since these two games governed by different organization and maybe can reduce the cost of host city to host two games in the same year. 

Or perhaps another idea is staging these two games in different year but in the same bid.

3 hours ago, budse said:

that's also possible.. but the travel grants to Olympic family and Paralympic family including IFs, then NOCs and NPCs are quite huge also. If they can split into two different bid mean different host city, and the same situation like Rio can be avoided which they move the Paralympic budget to Olympic.

or different time frame so they can split the budget into two financial years.

How many cities out there will have any interest in the Paralympics without the Olympics tied to it?  JMark is right that the sensible plan is to have both relatively close together to make use of both facilities.  If we're looking for reasons why a city like Rio struggles with hosting an Olympics, I think the Paralympics is very low on the list of reasons.

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18 hours ago, Sir Rols said:

Good you clarified that - just that you do seem extremely dismissive of arguments against it or comments that some IOC members may be against it.

I would think that as much grief that truff gives me (& others) about L.A. (in the L.A. '24 thread), I would think that my position about L.A. was already clear. I think Bach wants L.A. 2028 much more than I care to, either way.

I'm not being extremely dismissive at all, but like I said earlier, just have more reservations about them, since there's just as many IOC members who are for it, or at least not as 'extremely dismissive' themselves to even consider it, or at the very least, talk about it. 

18 hours ago, Sir Rols said:

Of course that's problematic. The IOC should be dealing with their image problem though, not compounding it by changing rules ad-hoc without consultation to suit a short term aim. Yeah, that's really going to help their image for forthrightness and level-playing fields, isn't it?

There's an IOC meeting in July, where it mentions that could be the first platform on how to act on it, if at all. But no matter which way the IOC goes, there's always gonna be people critical about what the IOC does or doesn't do no matter what. Just look at paul, for example.

18 hours ago, Sir Rols said:

If 2028 is so bereft of likely candidates as many make out, this may be their golden, best opportunity and do a Beijing/Almaty (or as we say in Oz, doing a Bradbury).

So let a quality bidder maybe slip away, so perhaps Brisbane 2028 could do a Beijing 2022? Yeah, that doesn't seem like very sound reasoning to me. I also don't think that anyone is saying that 2028 would be depleted of candidates, but rather the quality of candidates could very well be lacking when you consider how Europe is so anti-Olympic these days.

As much as you want to tout the likes of Doha, for example, I don't believe that they're on the same level yet to be given the honor of an Olympics, not yet anyway. I mean look at how much grief FIFA is getting from giving them the World Cup, at the price of slave labor to prepare for that "lavish" show. 

As much as you say that you find the selection of Beijing 2022 distasteful, a Doha Games should be enough to make anyone queezy then. I honestly see Istanbul being the first Muslim city to get the Games anyway. But I guess the IOC can just keep going to East Asia, though. Sapporo is already on track to launch a 2026 bid. Then we can have Shanghai or Guangzhou 2028 (more China anyone)!

 

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10 hours ago, LatinXTC said:

Now that would be an interesting showdown to see! Both of them have had an interest in hosting the game for decades. Both have a very laidback personality. Madrid has a massive cultural background, perfect summer weather for hosting, and an insanely good public transportation system. Toronto has a stronger economy as of right now and has the benefit of being in the eastern time zone. Could be a great showdown for 2028 if neither LA or Paris decide to return if they lose the 2024 bid.

Laidback personality?! :blink: Not if the the members here from those respective places are any indication! 

But yeah, Madrid vs Toronto would definitely be good here! But you know what would make it even BETTER?! Madrid vs Toronto vs L.A. 2028!!! OMFG - that would be enough to blow up all the servers for GB's!!!!! :lol::lol:

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7 hours ago, budse said:

that's also possible.. but the travel grants to Olympic family and Paralympic family including IFs, then NOCs and NPCs are quite huge also. If they can split into two different bid mean different host city, and the same situation like Rio can be avoided which they move the Paralympic budget to Olympic.

or different time frame so they can split the budget into two financial years.

Travel grants? To the best of my knowledge, costs for foreign dignitaries (including IOC/IPC) are not the responsibility of the hosts, apart from security, local travel (which in London, at least, was built into most ticket costs anyway, to encourage public transport use by spectators, so successfully that some of the "Zil lanes" on major roads were abandoned because so many of the Olympic Family were travelling by train instead) and pre-booking of accommodation. All those costs can be mitigated by scale savings if the Olympics and Paralympics are held sequentially in the same city.

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13 hours ago, budse said:

Perhaps it's time to separate Olympics and Paralympics bid. Since these two games governed by different organization and maybe can reduce the cost of host city to host two games in the same year. 

Or perhaps another idea is staging these two games in different year but in the same bid.

 

Not gonna work.  Separating them would render the Paralympics and opportunities for Paralympians extinct.  The Paralympic survive becuz the Olympic budgets are forced to accommodate the Paralympics.  If you separate them, gov'ts and organizing committees are LESS LIKELY to fund the Paralympic efforts.  Again, budse, not a viable suggestion.  

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i don't know, they always find hosts for pointless things like the youth olympics and the world university games. they'd just have to scale it back.

maybe attach it to the youth olympics. perhaps the two events together could drum up something resembling interest.

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27 minutes ago, krow said:

i don't know, they always find hosts for pointless things like the youth olympics and the world university games. they'd just have to scale it back.

maybe attach it to the youth olympics. perhaps the two events together could drum up something resembling interest.

Good point. Decoupling from the Olympics wouldn't kill the paras altogether, but would kill them as we know them. 

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5 hours ago, FYI said:

So let a quality bidder maybe slip away, so perhaps Brisbane 2028 could do a Beijing 2022? Yeah, that doesn't seem like very sound reasoning to me. I also don't think that anyone is saying that 2028 would be depleted of candidates, but rather the quality of candidates could very well be lacking when you consider how Europe is so anti-Olympic these days.

Brisbane's chances or not are just a distraction from the main debate. As I said, I don't fancy their chances myself, and whether it will go the distance at all. The only point I was making was that, as in any race and as we saw for 2022, the vote ain't over till it's all played out with all the dramas, drop-outs and unexpected occurrences. The fact is though, that Brisbane is well advanced in planning for a bid. It's spent millions already on its evaluation and started a formal public study involving all levels of government in South East Queensland. It's making all the serious and formal pre-bid moves. Whether it goes ahead in the end or not will depend on all the usual factors - money, political support, public support and appetite for it.As any city does, if they go into it, they'd be doing so with a hope they can win. They wouldn't be doing so on the basis of hoping everyone else would fall over so they can win.

5 hours ago, FYI said:

As much as you want to tout the likes of Doha, for example, I don't believe that they're on the same level yet to be given the honor of an Olympics, not yet anyway. I mean look at how much grief FIFA is getting from giving them the World Cup, at the price of slave labor to prepare for that "lavish" show. 

As much as you say that you find the selection of Beijing 2022 distasteful, a Doha Games should be enough to make anyone queezy then. I honestly see Istanbul being the first Muslim city to get the Games anyway. But I guess the IOC can just keep going to East Asia, though. Sapporo is already on track to launch a 2026 bid. Then we can have Shanghai or Guangzhou 2028 (more China anyone)!

The inappropriateness of a single city hosting a World Cup complete with its 10 or so stadia is a different kettle of fish than an Olympics, which of course is traditionally a single city event. In regards to their ability and appropriateness for an Olympics, the better example would be their 2006 Asian Games, which went off pretty bloody successfully. Ther question then would be whether they leverage their existing infrastructure from those games and the WC for an Olympics, or whether they'd bring out their bags of gold to go all out in excessive lavishness again. Yeah, I'm sure they'd attract the same level of queasiness as Beijing 2008 or Sochi 2014 did in the west. But I'm also sure the IOC would be confident they'd be able to deliver as slick and lavish games as those two as well.

Personally, I think Turkey's a lame duck in the water, at least as long as its present government is in place, for the Olympics. I think there's a very good chance the first Middle East Olympics will be one of the Gulf states, and possibly even within the next decade or so. I'm pretty sure thy're gonna be trying for it and will do persistently and aggressively all the while carrying their own particular set of positive and negative baggage. And as usual, how that plays out will be seen and followed here.

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4 hours ago, baron-pierreIV said:

Not gonna work.  Separating them would render the Paralympics and opportunities for Paralympians extinct.  The Paralympic survive becuz the Olympic budgets are forced to accommodate the Paralympics.  If you separate them, gov'ts and organizing committees are LESS LIKELY to fund the Paralympic efforts.  Again, budse, not a viable suggestion.  

what do you think if paralympics merge with Special Olympics and Deaflympics... seems these two events can still survive without tapping to Olympic. And perhaps if these 3 organizations could join force together to have single mega big events.. they will have better exposure.

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5 hours ago, JMarkSnow2012 said:

Travel grants? To the best of my knowledge, costs for foreign dignitaries (including IOC/IPC) are not the responsibility of the hosts, apart from security, local travel (which in London, at least, was built into most ticket costs anyway, to encourage public transport use by spectators, so successfully that some of the "Zil lanes" on major roads were abandoned because so many of the Olympic Family were travelling by train instead) and pre-booking of accommodation. All those costs can be mitigated by scale savings if the Olympics and Paralympics are held sequentially in the same city.

Local Organization Committee needs to pay travel grants at least to NOCs and NPCs.

http://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1045092/rio-2016-finally-pay-travel-grants-to-international-paralympic-committee-three-weeks-after-deadline

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1 hour ago, Sir Rols said:

Brisbane's chances or not are just a distraction from the main debate. As I said, I don't fancy their chances myself, and whether it will go the distance at all. The only point I was making was that, as in any race and as we saw for 2022, the vote ain't over till it's all played out with all the dramas, drop-outs and unexpected occurrences. 

Yeah, I get that. But the thing is, there's too much negative drama, drop-outs & unexpected occurrences as of late that I'm sure that the IOC would rather stay away from for the time being. I mean the number of referendums & withdrawals that we're seeing now mid-campaign are unprecedented. That's got to be making the IOC very, very nervous.

1 hour ago, Sir Rols said:

Personally, I think Turkey's a lame duck in the water, at least as long as its present government is in place, for the Olympics. I think there's a very good chance the first Middle East Olympics will be one of the Gulf states, and possibly even within the next decade or so. I'm pretty sure thy're gonna be trying for it and will do persistently and aggressively all the while carrying their own particular set of positive and negative baggage. And as usual, how that plays out will be seen and followed here.

Perhaps you're right. I still don't see it anytime soon, though. At least not with 2028. And now with the latest European casualty, Budapest 2024, added to that extensive list of bid withdrawals this afternoon, I can only see the talks of a double-award only intensify in the coming weeks in the corridors of Lausaunne.

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59 minutes ago, budse said:

what do you think if paralympics merge with Special Olympics and Deaflympics... seems these two events can still survive without tapping to Olympic. And perhaps if these 3 organizations could join force together to have single mega big events.. they will have better exposure.

 
 

I think the logistical challenges will be HORRENDOUS.  Paralympics are for the physically-handicapped playing in the same sports as the regular Olympics.  Special Olympics are for the mentally-handicapped; and of course, Deafolympics are for the hard-of-hearing.  Each one has its own subset of officials, referees, technical experts, etc.,  I don't know what steps have to be taken to coordinate the special needs of each one into one two-week period.  This might need a special, extensive study -- but I don't know how to approach it.  Maybe a sports giant like Russia can study and come up with a solution, and make that their offering to the sporting world as amends for all the cheating they have done!! 

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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6 hours ago, budse said:

Ah, sorry, I was misunderstanding you- those are the travel grants which help to ensure that teams from poorer nations can take part in the games, wherever in the world they may be held.

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On 2/22/2017 at 1:25 PM, FYI said:

Laidback personality?! :blink: Not if the the members here from those respective places are any indication! 

But yeah, Madrid vs Toronto would definitely be good here! But you know what would make it even BETTER?! Madrid vs Toronto vs L.A. 2028!!! OMFG - that would be enough to blow up all the servers for GB's!!!!! :lol::lol:

Never met anyone from Madrid here but yea the Toronto people are not a good representation of the city's friendliness. In the 3 times I went there I only experienced 2 pissy moments with locals, and that was when I went the 1st time over 4 years ago. Europeans hate tourists in general, but I found the locals in Madrid far friendlier than Barcelona.

Now that would make for an interesting race for 2028. North American supporters will have to choose between the US or Canada, especially a US that either recently just went through a Trump administration or at worst, currently under one. Would be hilarious if that torn support, and those unwilling to pick a side, vote in Madrid and there is no round 2!

 

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