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Should a future Munich bid drop Gramisch?


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#1 kernowboy

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 08:03 AM

Berchtesgaden to be the centre for the Alpine events.

In the 2018 bid, opposition seem to focus around two major issues:

- the use of green land in Munich to build indoor facilities even if only temporary structures
- the use of land in Garmsich-Partenkirchen for some of the Nordic events and concern that despite hosting FIS World Championships, Garmisch was too small for the larger Olympics.

But as Schonau am Konigsee was going to be used for the sliding events anyway, surely moving all of the outdoor events to this part of South East Bavaria actually enhances the bid.

1. Berchtesgaden bid for 1992 Olympics suggesting public support to have a larger slice of the games might be higher.

2. Though not as big as Garmisch, Bertesgaden has hosted FIS events before and has the ability to host the full range of alpine events.

3. Nordic and biathalon events could be held at Ruhpolding which is hosting the 2012 Biathalon World Championships. The Large Hill at the Chiemgau arena simply needs to be expanded from a HS128 to a HS140 size for ski jumping.

4. It also will make it easier to use the Eisstadion Inzell, a 20000 seat cover speed skating track and 2nd fastest in Euope as part of the bid.

The Ruhplding/Inzell cluster (120km) from Munich is only about 30km from Berchtesgaden/Schonau and being by the Austrian border, spectators could stay in the Salzburg area 35km from the events. There is also the German-Austrian train link available at Freilassing.

Meanwhile back in Munich

5. There would be no need for the temporary areas as the Olympia Eishalle could be used and speed skating is now at Inzell. The Eishalle could always be demolished after the games.

6. The main Ice Hockey arena would still be built but this was always going to be on brown land anyway.

Despite increasing the distance to the Alpine Events, this option reduces the size of the Munich 2018 bid as it simply arranges all the events down the European Route 8 corridor between Munich and Salzburg and not included Garmisch which is in the oppostite direction from Munich. Distances between the 2 locations would be 150km or under 2 hours driving, making it no larger than the Denver-Vail proposal and significantly less than the proposed Sacramento-Lake Tahoe-Reno bid. The legacy would be developing a larger German Alpine alternative to Garmisch, as well as improving the indoor facilities in Munich.

Personally I think it makes Munich 2022 more robust as it offers a new location for the games, yet includes those that have bid before (Schonau in 2010 and 2014, Berchtesgaden in 1992, Munich in 2018) either as part of a bid or individually. Thinking that only Garmisch can host the alpine and nordic events might actually be holding back a bid by raising opposition.

Berchtesgaden to be the centre for the Alpine events.

In the 2018 bid, opposition seem to focus around two major issues:

- the use of green land in Munich to build indoor facilities even if only temporary structures
- the use of land in Garmsich-Partenkirchen for some of the Nordic events and concern that despite hosting FIS World Championships, Garmisch was too small for the larger Olympics.

But as Schonau am Konigsee was going to be used for the sliding events anyway, surely moving all of the outdoor events to this part of South East Bavaria actually enhances the bid.

1. Berchtesgaden bid for 1992 Olympics suggesting public support to have a larger slice of the games might be higher.

2. Though not as big as Garmisch, Bertesgaden has hosted FIS events before and has the ability to host the full range of alpine events.

3. Nordic and biathalon events could be held at Ruhpolding which is hosting the 2012 Biathalon World Championships. The Large Hill at the Chiemgau arena simply needs to be expanded from a HS128 to a HS140 size for ski jumping.

4. It also will make it easier to use the Eisstadion Inzell, a 20000 seat cover speed skating track and 2nd fastest in Euope as part of the bid.

The Ruhplding/Inzell cluster (120km) from Munich is only about 30km from Berchtesgaden/Schonau and being by the Austrian border, spectators could stay in the Salzburg area 35km from the events. There is also the German-Austrian train link available at Freilassing.

Meanwhile back in Munich

5. There would be no need for the temporary areas as the Olympia Eishalle could be used and speed skating is now at Inzell. The Eishalle could always be demolished after the games.

6. The main Ice Hockey arena would still be built but this was always going to be on brown land anyway.

Despite increasing the distance to the Alpine Events, this option reduces the size of the Munich 2018 bid as it simply arranges all the events down the European Route 8 corridor between Munich and Salzburg and not included Garmisch which is in the oppostite direction from Munich. Distances between the 2 locations would be 150km or under 2 hours driving, making it no larger than the Denver-Vail proposal and significantly less than the proposed Sacramento-Lake Tahoe-Reno bid. The legacy would be developing a larger German Alpine alternative to Garmisch, as well as improving the indoor facilities in Munich.

Personally I think it makes Munich 2022 more robust as it offers a new location for the games, yet includes those that have bid before (Schonau in 2010 and 2014, Berchtesgaden in 1992, Munich in 2018) either as part of a bid or individually. Thinking that only Garmisch can host the alpine and nordic events might actually be holding back a bid by raising opposition.


drop GARMISCH lol
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#2 intoronto

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 10:07 AM

Apparently Berchtesgaden is further away, however if it is used it eliminates having one stand alone venue (the luge track) as it would be part of the snow cluster now.

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#3 kernowboy

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 10:37 AM

Apparently Berchtesgaden is further away, however if it is used it eliminates having one stand alone venue (the luge track) as it would be part of the snow cluster now.


That was my thought

In addition, it avoids the need to build two additional centres/arenas - one for nordic/biathalon events and the other the Speed Skating Arena.

In fact Munich would only need to build one new site - the main Ice Hockey arena
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#4 Athensfan

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 12:05 PM

It makes sense, but Garmisch is skier Valhalla....

"...unforgettable, dream Games..."


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#5 Querque

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 12:15 PM

As I suggested it in the other Munich thread, I think the bid would be more compact. The last world cup event in Berchtesgaden was in 2000 for women and in 1986 for men and probably the slopes and the arena have to be adapted and expanded but nevertheless, I would prefer Berchtesgaden to Garmisch.

I even would drop Munich and use Salzburg for the ice events (all venues would be less than 30 minutes from the Red Bull Arena which could be used for the ceremonies) and it would be the most compact bid since... I don't know since when...
Of course I know that is unrealistic^^

#6 kernowboy

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 12:23 PM

As I suggested it in the other Munich thread, I think the bid would be more compact. The last world cup event in Berchtesgaden was in 2000 for women and in 1986 for men and probably the slopes and the arena have to be adapted and expanded but nevertheless, I would prefer Berchtesgaden to Garmisch.

I even would drop Munich and use Salzburg for the ice events (all venues would be less than 30 minutes from the Red Bull Arena which could be used for the ceremonies) and it would be the most compact bid since... I don't know since when...
Of course I know that is unrealistic^^


I think despite what the IOC says about it being the city rather than the country, its a non-starter having a 50/50 split of events. It tends to be the National Olympic Committees which get behind the bids.

There would be howls of anguish from Austrian ski resorts if Salzburg looked across the border for the alpine events and one of reasons why the Swiss rejected Geneva was because the closer ski resorts were all in France meaning the Geneva alpine events were likely to be over 200km away.

If you look at Salzburg there is the shadow of Innsbruck in 1964/1976 rather than Garmisch in 1936
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#7 Querque

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 12:51 PM

The problem with 2 countries co-hosting the games probably isn't the border (which isn't really existing anymore in Europe) but the fact that there would be 2 pre-qualified teams in ice hockey, curling...

And there are many other points that make an Austrian-German co-bid like that impossible. On the one hand Germany and the DOSB probably doesn't want to share the games (at all if the host city is Salzburg), on the other hand Salzburg won't bid as long as Heinz Schaden is the mayor of Salzburg. He already had big problems after bidding and losing twice (at all because of the financial disaster after their 2014 bid).
So that idea only was a hypothetical one ;)

#8 intoronto

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 01:23 PM

Salzburg proposed having the luge track at Sochau and look how far it got them.

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#9 Tulsa

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 02:49 PM

There would be howls of anguish from Austrian ski resorts if Salzburg looked across the border for the alpine events and one of reasons why the Swiss rejected Geneva was because the closer ski resorts were all in France meaning the Geneva alpine events were likely to be over 200km away.


There are lot of ski resorts whom are less 200 km away from Geneve

Geneva > Verbier 163 km
Geneva > Gstaad 158 km
Geneva > Champéry 130 km etc.

But Geneva > Chamonix 80 km

French ski resort are nearest from Geneva than Swiss Ski resort ;).

Swiss should try with Lausanne or Sion or Luzern... St Moritz/ Davos isn't a very good choice.

We could imagine a bid Swiss/ France with Geneva Chamonix, but I think Annecy Chamonix like in 2018 stay a better choice.
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#10 kernowboy

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 03:51 PM

There are lot of ski resorts whom are less 200 km away from Geneve

Geneva > Verbier 163 km
Geneva > Gstaad 158 km
Geneva > Champéry 130 km etc.

But Geneva > Chamonix 80 km

French ski resort are nearest from Geneva than Swiss Ski resort ;).

Swiss should try with Lausanne or Sion or Luzern... St Moritz/ Davos isn't a very good choice.

We could imagine a bid Swiss/ France with Geneva Chamonix, but I think Annecy Chamonix like in 2018 stay a better choice.


Geneva's bid was based around alpine events at Crans Montana 191km away

Verbier wanted to be part of a Valais bid including Sion I'd imagine.

The problem with bids from Switzerland is that if the venues are in several cantons they all have to agree. That is why I think they favour St Moritz - only one canton is involved
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