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munichfan

Munich 2022

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Also it could be the start of changing the global routine and status quo towards South America and New Zealand hosting.

As much as I'd like to see it ... I still can't see it happening anytime soon. Just too many factors working against it.

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I'd love Munich to bid for 2022. 50th anniversary of 72 would be a nice time to return there.

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While those precedents you mention speak for themselves, they were up against some ridiculous situations, and have never had an opportunity so open before with a) having easily the strongest and most appealing bid B) being largely unaffected by the 2020 result and 2018 in Asia and c) a weak potentially competitive field.

Munich & it's supporters didn't think that PyeongChang's perseverance was a 'ridiculous situation' to overcome. On the contrary, 'perseverance' can only get you so far. Just ask Ostersund (& Sweden in general), Detroit, Paris & soon to be Madrid. PyeongChang mainly won with sentiment rather than perseverance. I think that gets misconstrued a lot.

And while I mainly agree about Berlin (although other cities have opposition groups, doesn't necessarily derail a bid) & especially Leipzig & Berchtesgaden, they were still loses nonetheless that they had to deal with. The GOC truly believed that Leipzig was the best choice for their 2012 candidate. And while I agree that it deserved to be snubbed, I still remember one German member in particular here that was so critical with anyone that criticized the choice of Leipzig. Needless to say, he/she disappeared as soon as Leipzig was done.

Hindsight is always 20/20 & it's easy to give reasons now well after certain votes, but at the time of the losses, it's a different story. Especially when a bid & a city feels that they gave it their all only to be shot down in flames. I think that Munich might be suffering a little of what Chicago did (& hence most likely why they've told the USOC a big flat-out, "NOT interested). The loses hit home at the time, & sometimes people need to step back & take a break from it all.

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The GOC truly believed that Leipzig was the best choice for their 2012 candidate.

That's a whole different debate, but I'm not sure if that's true. I wasn't here to observe the race online, or know of the German poster you mentioned, but I've seen several acknowledgements from German members here since that Leipzig's choice was a political decision mainly to prop up the eastern part of the nation. I'm not a huge studier or enthusiast of in-depth bid and venue plans, either, but I'd be surprised if Leipzig's plan was superior to Hamburg's or Berlin's.

That said, yeah, I expect they still thought they could win. I'm a firm believer that a city just can't go into a bid race without believing they can win. It's the kiss of death to go in half-heartedly and not expecting to be able to triumph.

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I'm not a huge studier or enthusiast of in-depth bid and venue plans, either, but I'd be surprised if Leipzig's plan was superior to Hamburg's or Berlin's.

Berlin was not in the German domestic running for 2012. It was Leipzig, Hamburg, Frankfurt, Dusseldorf & Stuttgart. And there have been German's here that have argued that Frankfurt wouldn't be good for as an Olympic venue. Hamburg came in runner-up to Leipzig, though.

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W hen you looked at some of the plans Leipzig looked really interesting - but we all know the bids aren't purely judged on technical merit. Against the big boys of 2012 it was always a no win situation.

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Well, in the k.o. rounds Stuttgart dropped out first, Frankfurt dropped out next followed by Düsseldorf - Hamburg was runner up - Leipzig won with 81:51

Hamburg became first and Leipzig second in the evaluation of the German NOC.

I esteem the choice of Leipzig as a political decision, since the German NOC must had been aware that in an international competition a city like Leipzig has no chance at all. Leipzig was always a sport centre in Germany indeed, but it has not the level of recognition outside Germany. Many politicians supported the and hoped for "second wonder" for the former eastern part of Germany...

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They want to eliminate a stumbling block, but I fear that they create a new stumbling block for the IOC by shifting the biathlon and cross-country to Ruhpolding. The article doesn't even raise the question what will happen to the nordic combined events then. It's 150 kilometres (93 miles) from Garmisch-Partenkirchen (where the ski jumps are located) to Ruhpolding, an almost two-hour drive by car (not to mention that busses used for team transportation are slower, of course) because there's no fast motorway leading directly from Garmisch to Ruhpolding, you have to drive quite a stretch on Bundes- or Landesstraßen (federal or state roads, i.e. normal roads leading directly through cities, with traffic lights, slower speeds and so on). If there weren't the nordic combined events, you could still somehow argue that the Games and their events aren't that much stretched out across southern Bavaria.

I suppose that Munich needs to have a rather weak opposition in order to win the Games despite that serious question that will be raised for sure.

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They want to eliminate a stumbling block, but I fear that they create a new stumbling block for the IOC by shifting the biathlon and cross-country to Ruhpolding. The article doesn't even raise the question what will happen to the nordic combined events then. It's 150 kilometres (93 miles) from Garmisch-Partenkirchen (where the ski jumps are located) to Ruhpolding, an almost two-hour drive by car (not to mention that busses used for team transportation are slower, of course) because there's no fast motorway leading directly from Garmisch to Ruhpolding, you have to drive quite a stretch on Bundes- or Landesstraßen (federal or state roads, i.e. normal roads leading directly through cities, with traffic lights, slower speeds and so on). If there weren't the nordic combined events, you could still somehow argue that the Games and their events aren't that much stretched out across southern Bavaria.

I suppose that Munich needs to have a rather weak opposition in order to win the Games despite that serious question that will be raised for sure.

When Oslo are planning to use the Lillehammer venues, its almost like they want to let Barcelona into the race :huh:

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I think that Oslo still has a more compact venue plan than the (proposed) plan for Munich 2022. Munich would have alpine events 90 kilometres from the main host city plus biathlon and cross-country events 115 kilometres from the main host city plus sledding events 160 kilometres from the main host city. Oslo, on the other hand would have more events (including biathlon and cross-country) directly in the city or in its immediate surroundings - while only the alpine events would take place 240 kilometres away in Kvitfjell and the sledding events would take place 200 kilometres away in Hunderfossen. Those are very large distances by Winter Olympic standards but at least they would have only two venue clusters as opposed to Munich's three. Plus: In Oslo the nordic combined events could take place in a very compact venue - nothing beats Holmenkollen in that regard.

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Yeah... Oslo's plan is more compact, but Munich makes a more attractive option.

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