112 replies to this topic

[faster]

Which side of the fence are you on?

[RobH]

It's a toughy but after much non-existent-soul-searching I feel that I wouldn't be able to adequately defend myself if I were to declare that I'm an atheist who believes in creationism. I'm therefore forced to go with evolution. despite it "only being a theory". Life's tough.

Have the "intelligent design" lobby got a foothold in Canada or is that still pretty much an American phenomenon Faster? I know in the UK the Education Secretary has been very quick to say he won't allow Creationist groups to set up Free Schools here, not that there'd be any significant appetite in this country for such institutions anyway.

Edited by RobH, 08 November 2011 - 02:04 PM.

[DannyelBrazil]

Somehow, I think both describes the same thing. The evolition theory tries to explain it with scientific language, meanwhile creation explains the world through metaphor. That's my opinion.

[RobH]

What exactly does that imply Danny? Do you understand evolution as most scientists would; as an entirely physical process without higher intervention, or when you say you think it's a metaphor are you actually saying you think evolution did occur, but that the whole thing was kicked off by God?

[faster]

RobH, on 08 November 2011 - 02:03 PM, said:

It's a toughy but after much non-existent-soul-searching I feel that I wouldn't be able to adequately defend myself if I were to declare that I'm an atheist who believes in creationism. I'm therefore forced to go with evolution. despite it "only being a theory". Life's tough.

Have the "intelligent design" lobby got a foothold in Canada or is that still pretty much an American phenomenon Faster? I know in the UK the Education Secretary has been very quick to say he won't allow Creationist groups to set up Free Schools here, not that there'd be any significant appetite in this country for such institutions anyway.

I think its strongest in Alberta where American style Christianity has a foothold. But in general the intelligent design idea is not that mainstream here. I know in Ontario evolution is taught in high school (some teachers just push it to the end and hope they don't have to teach it though).

The first day of my biology 101 class in university the prof gets up in front of about 300 people and says something like, if you cannot accept evolution as true and valid, you cannot be taught biology. All biology is taught and understood through evolution. You cannot accept any principle of biology without first accepting evolution. A few people walked out.

[Rols O'Bertilsson]

Having strolled down memory lane with James' old "Do you believe in God" thread, I almost wish he was here to set us straight about creation.

[jawnbc]

Creation is a narrative explanation for how the universe has come to be. Evolution is a systemic explanation derived from data.

Back in the early 1990s the BC Abbotsford school district was found to teach creationism in biology classes. The province threatened to withhold ALL funding unless they stopped. They stopped.

Generally religious folks in Canada don't try to force their beliefs into public policy. Perhaps because at its founding, Canada had three equally adhered to traditions: Roman Catholicism, Protestantism (Anglicism; later Presybeterianism), and Indigenous. Rather quickly folks figured out "live and let live" between the Europeans.

[Citius Altius Fortius]

well - I esteem the creation theory as a try of several churches to combine natural science with their faith...

Altough the main thesis of evolution and the genesis of the bible are obviously conflicting - e.g.:

evolution = creatures survive due better adaption to their surroundings/life styles based on accidental mutation and gives their genotype to the next generation => evolution hasn't stopped yet

creation theory = a creator planned all transformation with its final "super-creature" = man

Edited by Citius Altius Fortius, 08 November 2011 - 05:46 PM.

[faster]

Don't get me wrong, I definately think there is a place for creation stories in the public school system. But it is not in science class. I took religion in high school were we did learn about the various creation outlooks and it was very interesting. But to present creation as science is well ludicrous.

I wish I could find the statistics but evolution as a firm knowledge in people is still very low. Probably because of the religious fight-back against it. I mean have any of you gotten the, then why are there still monkeys around if we evolved from them question? When discussion evolution?

Rob I don't think you have your thinking right. Being an atheist does not mean that you have to accept evolution, just like being a theist does not mean you have to reject evolution. There was a very interesting article on the BBC in September about religion in the Netherlands and how some churches are trying to reconstruct the bible and Christian belief in the frame-work of a moral and ethical foundation that can exist without true belief in a single G-d or supreme being. http://www.bbc.co.uk...europe-14417362

I find people deal in absolutes too often. Another common one now is that you cannot be a moral person without belief in a G-d to give you a moral compass through scripture. But ethics and morality have existed as concepts before Christianity. So how can a reject of Christianity make a person also immoral? Or amoral?

[Citius Altius Fortius]

faster, on 08 November 2011 - 05:46 PM, said:

I mean have any of you gotten the, then why are there still monkeys around if we evolved from them question?

that is a common misunderstanding - man didn't evolved from monkeys - the apes, which are living with us on the earth right now, share with us "forefather creatures", which were neither "man" nor "ape" - its like the Archaeopteryx, which has characteristics of a dinosaur and a bird...

Every single different ape family/group (orang utans, chimpanzees, gorillas, guenons etc. etc.) found their own ecological niche on earth - like man, too - one day they might be another creature which will take our niche, when the circumstances on earth have changed and we couldn't adapt - like it happened several times in the past

Evolution is the branch of science, which is looking for universal rules how life is changing over millions of years - the Creation theory is the try to keep at the genesis of the bible in todays enlighted scientific society

Edited by Citius Altius Fortius, 08 November 2011 - 06:24 PM.