42 replies to this topic

[oakydoky]

fatixxx, on 18 October 2011 - 11:34 AM, said:

@ Okidoki

I read all of your comments here in this topic. Firstly you set the basis for a deep-ongoing discussion for nothing. A big elephant in porcelain-store that what happened here.

1.I didn't create this thread.
2.I responded to what other people, such as yourself said and corrected the lies.

You also foldly talked/wrote about the israeli ocupation, the west-bank .. Iran and so on. You accused me (indirectly) too. I have a lot of jew friends. And also israeli friends from the eurovision-circuit. At the first page I was only talking about Israel refering to the gouvernment that this state has at the moment. I didn't accused any israeli citizens.

I didn't indirectly accuse you of anything. I quoted what you said and responded to it.Your statement about Israel becoming even more isolated for daring to challenge Turkey had undertones and implications which I responded to.

I cleared only 1 thing up; Israel (those knesset members) are doing wrong in this anti-Olympic campaign case. Don't spoil your political revenge into the sports-area. That's not clean from Israel. And by the way you can accuse Turkey of a lot of things. You can underbuild your statements with international accords and so on. But please do also put effort to get an idea from our side too. Israel is not innocent. Everybody knows this.

Everybody knows Israel isn't innocent? What are they guilty of? Please list, with proof, their guilt for there acts. Don't just say "Israel isn't innocent, everybody knows this". That's poor argument and baseless. With regards to those 'international accords' as you call them -- they PROVE certain truths and expose the lies that many repeat ad nauseum when talking about Israel.

If 9 people on a Turkish Vesel are killed by isreali soldiers (thus those represent the state of Israel) at International Waters, THAN THIS IS ENOUGH TO DECLARE WAR TO TUKEY (to any country actually). Every nation in the world has a honourable place in her own souverinty .. But Turkey has a big experiennced political history towards the jews in history (and israel in common). Turkey as a big country didn't declare ware to this tiny state in he region .. but in place Turkey acted WISEFULL and GRACEFULL COUTNRY to transfer this in an diplomatical orbit/channel to be from answer towards this cruel action.

Turkey has a rich history of genocide (Armenia) and currently is engaged in anti-Israel rhetoric and politics aswell as allied with Iran. So, let's not paint Turkey as the beacon of victimhood. Oh, and Erdogan officially ended the alliance with Israel last May (2010) when he sent the IHH, an al Qaeda-aligned, Turkish NGO affiliated with his Islamist AKP Party to lead the pro-Hamas flotilla to Gaza.You know that 'aid ship' which had weapons on board used to attack IDF soldiers who in accordance with International law, are responsible for the coast of Gaza.Israel held an internationally sanctioned blockade of the Gaza coast (so did Egypt BTW) and passengers aboard the Mavi Marmara and the rest of the ships in the flotilla were engaged in illicit acts of war against the Jewish state and providing illicit aid and comfort to an illegal terrorist organization in the form of Hamas. In supporting and arguably organizing the flotilla, including the Mavi Marmara, Erdogan himself was waging an unlawful war against Israel.

Those IDIOT Knessed members who are seeking for revenge towards the JUSTIFIED Turkish Diplomatic/Lobby Policy (started as mentioned above about the killing of our citizens) do not know what for instance the Israeli President SHIMON PEREZ knows; The only way to keep Israel on soil in the region and to guarantee the future of Israel as a Jewish State is to be friends with Turkey. Both sides are knowing this. Israel needs Turkey (as long as the world turns around) more than vice versa. Those idiots are spoiling in this way with their stupid ego the future of their own country.

Utter lies. The Knesset members are raising legitimate concerns about Islamic Turkey and its anti-semtiism, sponsoring of ilicit wars against Israel, support for global Jihad and alliance with Iran -- a country who openly said it was going to "wipe Israel off the map". Turkey's actions have been appalling. And they do not fit with IOC philosphy so well don't to Israel for raising the issue.

Last but not least. Turkish gouvernment will do everything to prevent/inhibit/obstruct (call it how you want to cal it) this revenge towards an Justified diplomatic fight. Becaus only this will rescue Israel's face towards the Olympic Movement and Sports fields in general. Turkey isn't a country to play with like a toy !!

Revenge? I'll call it what it is -- Israel calling a spade a spade unlike the rest of the world which does not give a flying f*ck about the despicable actions of nations and how they contradict the lofty IOC goals and visions. Israel doesn't need rescuing -- it has done nothing wrong.

In 1972, perverted Palestinians murdered Jews in Munich. It's the Jews who require an apology for the treatment they received at the hands of the IOC.There still hasn't been an official memorial tot he slain Jewish athletes. So forgive me for not accepting the notion that Israel somehow has to endear itself to these guys.

Regards
fatih

[fatixxx]

okidoki.. you are responding on the arguments what fits you the best.

I didn't wrote lies and as you bring still new argumants to hit up the issue.

Turkey is not working with Iran to erase Israel from te Map, otherwhie we won't install the NATO missiles towards Iran .. isn't it.

This visit with you here on this topic .. I will leave as it is now.

Not hat I am not capable of to respond to you lies, but of the fact of a double missunderstanding that you create here.

You can be the lawyer of Isreal here .. no point.

Turkey is and still be be the one and only countrY to preserve Israel on the Map, because we (and aso I) believe that an Isreaili/Jewish State must live in tHis world.

And don't provocate with the "so called ARMENIAN GENOCIDE " - thing .. because you don't know nothing of it!!

You would be surprised if you knew the truth .. so I believe that at the end Istanbul 2020 will get it. And if not. No hard feelings. We will work furthEr for a brighther and powerfull Turkey.

And as the 1RST man of Israel .. shimon perez said and mentioned; Turkey is the one and only Gracefull country towards Israel.

Shortly 1 life of an Isreali Soldier will be rescued thanks to the pro-peace-active foreign Turkish Policy. That's what counts. But israel didn't rescued 1 single life of those who she killed!!


Jewish lobby will get its answer to all this anti-campaign-revenge towards a Justified Case that continues!

1 - Israel has to appologize to Turkey, coz' of the fact she killed 9 Turkish citizens
2 - Israel has to pay the families for they (human) losses
3 - Israel has to demolish the wall and the illegal ambargo towards Palestine

If the Israeli state doesn't take messures to take these steps (because of a single megaloman man 'callad avigdor lieberman who nowadays has bloked all the Israeli politics,) than they will turn up for the up-coming consequences howmany you do or support the countries policies.



regards
fatih

[oakydoky]

fatixxx, on 18 October 2011 - 12:36 PM, said:

okidoki.. you are responding on the arguments what fits you the best.

I didn't wrote lies and as you bring still new argumants to hit up the issue.

Turkey is not working with Iran to erase Israel from te Map, otherwhie we won't install the NATO missiles towards Iran .. isn't it.

I said Turkey was allied with Iran. And that Iran vowed to "wipe Israel off the map". Difference.

This visit with you here on this topic .. I will leave as it is now.

Not hat I am not capable of to respond to you lies, but of the fact of a double missunderstanding that you create here.

My lies? Convenient you haven't listed any. Would they be the listing of the proof which exploits the 'illegal occupation' myth people have stated here?

You can be the lawyer of Isreal here .. no point.

I'll just remain being a person who, when in possession of facts, states the when a nation and people (Israel/Jews) are being defamed with ignorance.

Turkey is and still be be the one and only countrY to preserve Israel on the Map, because we (and aso I) believe that an Isreaili/Jewish State must live in tHis world.

Sadly many in your country do not share that view. And that's true of the whole world btw so it's not just aimed at Turkey. But that's not my issue.

And don't provocate with the "so called ARMENIAN GENOCIDE " - thing .. because you don't know nothing of it!!

I'll do as I like when it's appropriate. I know plenty about it and I mentioned it to illustrae a point regarding Turkey as you were contextualising your nation as some sort of victim at the hands of Israel who had the right to wage war on them.

You would be surprised if you knew the truth .. so I believe that at the end Istanbul 2020 will get it. And if not. No hard feelings. We will work furthEr for a brighther and powerfull Turkey.

I do know the truth. That's the point.

And as the 1RST man of Israel .. shimon perez said and mentioned; Turkey is the one and only Gracefull country towards Israel.

Turkey, under Erdogan has cut ties with Israel and engaged in illicit acts of war against Israel via the 'Gaza aid ship' fiasco which, orchestrated by Turkey, had weapons on board used to seriously injure IDF soldiers who were safeguarding and upholding an internationally backed gaza blockade which clearly your country wanted to break.

Shortly 1 life of an Isreali Soldier will be rescued thanks to the pro-peace-active foreign Turkish Policy. That's what counts. But israel didn't rescued 1 single life of those who she killed!!

And over 1,000 Islamic Jihadists will be released back into he world. Not exactly a fair trade, is it? But hey, when did a little jihad hurt anyone.....................


Jewish lobby will get its answer to all this anti-campaign-revenge towards a Justified Case that continues!

1 - Israel has to appologize to Turkey, coz' of the fact she killed 9 Turkish citizens

Turkey should apologise to Israel for engaging in war against in an ilicit manner, sponsoring global jihad, underscoring international law with its 'aid boat/texas chainsaw massacre love-boat' it sent to attack Israel with.

2 - Israel has to pay the families for they (human) losses

Perhaps Turkey can repay the families of the Jews who have suffered via johad which Turkey endorses via its Islamist principles.

3 - Israel has to demolish the wall and the illegal ambargo towards Palestine

Total lie from you. Israel is not breaking any international law. So stop lying. Saying something does make it a a fact. If I said you were a serial killer, I would need to prove it with evidence. Israelis have as much right as per the 4th Geneva convention to settle in the areas of Gaza, Westbank etc. Israel isn't illegally occupying anywhere -- what sovereign state is Israel occupying from?

You are simply wrong here.Palestinians get free hospital care via Israel even when they attack the Jews constantly.Much of Gaza aid is financed by Israel.So cut your propaganda out. It might impress anti-semites but I'm not one of them.The Palestinians are an invented people wwith no historical reference to a nation in the history of humanity. They are also a 'nation' which voted in Islamic terrorists -- Hamas-- as their leaders in 2006. Lovely. Not.

If the Israeli state doesn't take messures to take these steps (because of a single megaloman man 'callad avigdor lieberman who nowadays has bloked all the Israeli politics,) than they will turn up for the up-coming consequences howmany you do or support the countries policies.

I think Turkey has a lot more apologising to do frankly. And you personally have a lot of apologising to do -- freely throwing about ignorant remarks about Israel just because you haven't read the facts is not acceptable.



regards
fatih

[demetrius]

So, TOKYO 2020!!!


乾杯 , KampaÏ

[emre]

Oki...

dude i dont know what u are looking for or back for but its leggaly announced by UN, that numerous serious violations of international law, both humanitarian law and human rights law, were committed by Israel during the military operations in Gaza, and slams 'reckless' violence of Turkish activists facing IDF soldiers; however, Israel's deadly raid on vessel characterized as 'excessive, unreasonable...

please before making a comment or judge someone or something search a bit, get some information , balance your mind and talk logical...


and its not the place for accusing countries. try to not out from the topic and lets all use gentle tounge.

[oakydoky]

emre, on 18 October 2011 - 04:15 PM, said:

Oki...

dude i dont know what u are looking for or back for but its leggaly announced by UN, that numerous serious violations of international law, both humanitarian law and human rights law, were committed by Israel during the military operations in Gaza, and slams 'reckless' violence of Turkish activists facing IDF soldiers; however, Israel's deadly raid on vessel characterized as 'excessive, unreasonable...

Did it ever cross your mind that the U.N may be anti-semitic and therefore blinded to the truth? I'm sure you're aware that in the 1970s, The U.N passed a resolution which declared that Jewish Zionism was racist. The irony of that was that the Jews and their right to self-determination was branded racist yet every other country on earth -- Germany, France, Iran, China etc were all allowed to express their national self-determination.

And before you mention 'Israeli atrocities' please, for the sake of truth, do not omit facts which de-construct your anti-Israel/Jews stance. Gaza, led by Hamas, provoke and attack Israel daily. Israel has never offensively attacked another neighbouring region without prior provocation. Fact. So, how about you acknowledge the CAUSES for the Israeli-Arab conflict. And how about you mention them.

Israel's raid on the ship was in keeping with International protocols. I'm not sure if you understand this but Israel (aswell as Egypt btw) held an internationally sanctioned blockade on gaza. Thus, Israel was within its rights to intercept a ship approaching the coastline. The 'aid ship' was an act of war against Israel and as such, Turkey, which orchestrated much of it, engaged in ilicit acts of war against Israel who were acting within the bounds of law.

please before making a comment or judge someone or something search a bit, get some information , balance your mind and talk logical...

You haven't listed 1 fact to back up your (bigoted) claims. You make generalised claims like "Israel isn't innocent, everybody knows that". Do they? What are they guilty of? List their crimes with proof. Merely saying Israel is guilty is not proof.

It's an objective fact Israel is not illegally occupying anywhere. The 1920 San Remo resolution is the ONLY legally binding manual on the Israeli-Arab conflict. And it states the Jews are allowed to settle in the region of Palestine.Thus, it is not an 'occupation'. If it's wrong for the Jews to live in the West-Bank, then it must be wrong too for the Arabs. And this view is substantiated, again by the fourth Geneva convention which makes it illegal to discriminate on the grounds on race.

-The 1948 war of Independence was a war that 5 Muslim armies committed against Israel. Israel won that war.
-The 1967 six day war was a war that Egypt, Syria and Jordan perpetrated against Israel. Israel defeated them and thus 'captured' land (Golan Heights etc) which were lands used to attack Israel from. However, rather than expelling the Arabs from their land, Israel let them stay. Fact.

Israel's wars are reactionary. It is flanked by 22+ Islamic nations who hate its guts. And yes, your country Turkey is of them.

So, perhaps when you distance yourself from the bias of your own nationalism, and actually read the sources on the event's between the arabs/Jews, you'll get the facts. I'm presenting facts. You're presenting generalised and incorrect opinions.

and its not the place for accusing countries. try to not out from the topic and lets all use gentle tounge.

No-one's accusing. I'm stating as a matter of fact. And let it be shown that:

1. I NEVER started this thread. I commented after several others did.
2. I presented facts to overturn the bigoted and yes, anti-semtic fuelled lies many were spewing.

Politics is a part of sport. To constantly use the 'don't mix politics and sport' card is total stupidity. I don't recall you or anyone having any problem when Israel is accused of crimes it didn't commit when stated within a forum such as this. So, if you're going to lie, I'm going to speak up for the truth whenever I can.

[emre]

there is nothng to say after u said un is antisemitic and cannot see the trurth...dude better change your nick to alice or peterpan cause u r not living in this world or u r high

[oakydoky]

emre, on 19 October 2011 - 02:57 AM, said:

there is nothng to say after u said un is antisemitic and cannot see the trurth...dude better change your nick to alice or peterpan cause u r not living in this world or u r high

You have not provided a single piece of evidence to support your anti-Israel stance.

You fail to realise that when you say something about a people/nation which has serious ramifications, you're meant to have proof to back it up. I asked you for it several times and you cannot provide it. Of course, your points have been shown to be incorrect.

Your opinions are exactly that -- crude, nationalistic and ignorant views devoid of any objective reasoning. Your protestations that "Israel isn't innocent...." without any evidence to substantiate your claims exposes your weak argument.You promote deliberate ignorance towards Islamic Jihad against Israel and refuse to mention the plethora of times when Israel was attacked at the hands of the people you claim are victims.

And I am living in this world -- hence why I'm citing FACTS to PROVE my points. You and people of your mindset are sadly engaging in anti-semitic stances devoid of truth all because something deep in your psyche requires that little Israel be blamed for things it simply hasn't done. And that's YOUR PROBLEM!

Whenever Israel is mentioned anywhere, the same tired and worn arguments are peddled. They lies and they're bigotted. But even when the facts disprove the bigots' stances it matters little because Israel is so absolutely despised due to being a Jewish state. And that's disgusting.

Every red arrow on my factually correct comments is testament to how people are threatened by the truth when it de-constructs their anti-semitism which they require in their life for some bizarre reason.Aw well, I'll stick to facts.

Shalom!

[emre]

oakydoky, on 19 October 2011 - 03:47 AM, said:

You have not provided a single piece of evidence to support your anti-Israel stance.

You fail to realise that when you say something about a people/nation which has serious ramifications, you're meant to have proof to back it up. I asked you for it several times and you cannot provide it. Of course, your points have been shown to be incorrect.

Your opinions are exactly that -- crude, nationalistic and ignorant views devoid of any objective reasoning. Your protestations that "Israel isn't innocent...." without any evidence to substantiate your claims exposes your weak argument.You promote deliberate ignorance towards Islamic Jihad against Israel and refuse to mention the plethora of times when Israel was attacked at the hands of the people you claim are victims.

And I am living in this world -- hence why I'm citing FACTS to PROVE my points. You and people of your mindset are sadly engaging in anti-semitic stances devoid of truth all because something deep in your psyche requires that little Israel be blamed for things it simply hasn't done. And that's YOUR PROBLEM!

Whenever Israel is mentioned anywhere, the same tired and worn arguments are peddled. They lies and they're bigotted. But even when the facts disprove the bigots' stances it matters little because Israel is so absolutely despised due to being a Jewish state. And that's disgusting.

Every red arrow on my factually correct comments is testament to how people are threatened by the truth when it de-constructs their anti-semitism which they require in their life for some bizarre reason.Aw well, I'll stick to facts.

Shalom!

god O_o Alice, UN made that decision and blame Israel in int laws not me not turkey or any arab country.... how on earth u can judge this ??? this is realty face it... check out UN press and news.

for make it asy for u ..
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8257301.stm
http://www.independe...za-1787972.html

it really hard to communicate and argue with u... u just hang on 1 thing that u see is relty and do not accept or try to see deeper.
well not my prob.

enjoy your day ;=)

[oakydoky]

emre, on 19 October 2011 - 04:07 AM, said:

god O_o Alice, UN made that decision and blame Israel in int laws not me not turkey or any arab country.... how on earth u can judge this ??? this is realty face it... check out UN press and news.

for make it asy for u ..
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8257301.stm
http://www.independe...za-1787972.html

it really hard to communicate and argue with u... u just hang on 1 thing that u see is relty and do not accept or try to see deeper.
well not my prob.

enjoy your day ;=)

I notice you omitted the part about how Palestinians (arab muslims) STARTED the Gaza war. Moreover, I notice you were unable to fathom that any organisation, when comprised of fallible humans, can be systematically bias in their application of blame.

The United Nations has demonstrated numerous anti-semitic policies towards Israel -- in the 1970s, they passed a resolution saying Jewish Nationalism was akin to racism. But every other country on earth was allowed their self-determination.

And now you're using quotes from the a bias and corrupt organisation -- the U.N.-- to denounce Israel. Your logic is skewed.

Further, U.N. resolutions are not legally binding. They act as recommendations in conflicts.They are opinions really and bias ones at that. It's like asking Al-Qaeda for their views -- you'll get jihadist gibberish from them.

Emre, you made several claims about Israel without evidence. That's my point. Can you not see how this is wrong? If I made derogatory claims about you without evidence, I would be slandering you.

And note this -- when someone attacks another person, it's not up to the attacker to dictate the response. If someone walks up to you in the street at hits you, you have every right to fight back. If Muslims persist in attacking Israel, Israel is not the bad-guy for fighting back for if it didn't, all the Jews would be slaughtered. Fact.