70 replies to this topic

[baron-pierreIV]

eusebius65, on 05 August 2010 - 06:03 PM, said:

Now as for something I'd like to question; if a SA bid goes ahead for 2020 and loses should Nawal accept responsibility for issuing a provocative statement?

It would be time to bring out that long tucked-away burkha.

[Rafa]

I personally do not take a Rabat bid seriously.

[baron-pierreIV]

I hope RSA puts out a fatwa on Nawal, or at most a bad juju spell!!

Edited by baron-pierreIV, 06 August 2010 - 09:39 AM.

[Mainad]

eusebius65, on 05 August 2010 - 07:55 AM, said:

Fair comment Baron but when you say that Nawal is selling 'her' continent short I think you're guilty (as we all can be) about putting too much emphasis on her 'African-ness'. I suspect now she is in the IOC clun she considers herself no longer an African but now separate from her continental affiliation. And let's not forget every IOC member is not 'from' the specific country but 'in' (hence Nawal is the IOC member in Morocco, JR is the IOC member in Belgium etc etc). There is a supra-national sense when it comes to the IOC that at least ideologically puts itself and the membership both above nation and continent (hence such ludicrous positions as the IOC UN Permanent Observer Mario Pescante). And just like a NATO, IMF, OECD, UN and any other quasi-autonomous bodies the IOC considers itself never beholden to its constituency (whether that be the IFs, the NOCs or the nation states that help fund participation of teams at the games), but instead follows a path bent of acquiring at best relevance and at worst power and the associated benefits of wealth and ego-massaging. Nawal is arguably no longer a citizen of Morocco or of Africa when it comes to the politics of bids and global sporting events, she is a potentate in that nation sans frontieres called the IOC. This hypothesis would certainly validate the supposedly disloyal comments she has made against Africa in toto insofar she is warding off the encroachments of that other big supra-national sporting organisation FIFA in setting global sports agendas. Whether this is off her own bat or as a mouthpiece for others within the IOC is something we may never discover (though I lean to the later).

I think you could certainly exclude old JAS from that assessment.He was very definitely chief IOC cheerleader for his home country Spain (as well as being Chief IOCer)!

As for Nawal's statement about Africa...I confess I am taken aback by it.I don't necessarily believe she is engaging in some sort of Machiavellian manoeuvering to make sure Morocco gets first bite of the African cherry but at the same time I can't help wondering why,at this stage,she is prepared to be so dismissive of South Africa's chances.It would be interesting to hear her elaborate more on her reasons for making these comments!

[Athensfan]

I really didn't interpret Nawal El Moutawakel's comments as being anti-South Africa. I think she was just offering a much needed reality check -- not just for Africa, but for the IOC and for other bidding nations.

If South Africa chooses to jump into the 2020 race, they need to do so with their eyes wide open. With Rio's victory, all the talk about new frontiers, and Rogge pushing so hard for an African bid, it would be possible for South Africa to become overly optimistic and lose sight of the fact that the Olympics pose a significant challenge.

SImilarly, how many IOC members have jumped on Rogge's bandwagon and started thinking "There's only one continent left to cross off the list"? They too need to be reminded that WC success does not automatically translate into a guarantee of Olympic success. That doesn't mean South Africa can't host the Games. It just means that the 2010 World Cup is not proof that they can.

Finally, how many prospective bid cities started thinking "Any African bid is a shoo-in. Look at Rio. Listen to Rogge. Maybe there's no point in bidding." GB even carried a story about Japan being wary of Africa's aspirations. It is important for these other prospective bidders to remember that the presence of an African bid does not mean other bidders would be wasting their time and money by jumping into the race. (The presence of a technically solid African bid WOULD mean they'd be wasting their time and money....).

I got the sense that Nawal was just trying to get everybody to slow down. A technically solid bid is not going to be easy for any African city. Nawal's timeframe may or may not be correct, but the spirit of her statement was one of thoughtful practicality -- not petty pessimism. The worst case scenario for all concerned would be premature African Olympics that fall far short of the standards set by previous hosts. I applaud Nawal for speaking so directly.

[Rafa]

Why would an African Olympics in South Africa fall short? premature...?

If South Africa does get to host at some stage it will become a national priority like all other previous events and I have no doubt it would be a success if an appropriate ticketing strategy is formulated.

[Refiloe Molefe]

baron-pierreIV, on 06 August 2010 - 09:38 AM, said:

I hope RSA puts out a fatwa on Nawal, or at most a bad juju spell!!

NO! WE WONT PUT A FATWA AT HER! OR JUJU, WE HAVE IZANGOMA (TRADITIONAL HEALERS) SHE NEEDS TO BE CURED OF HER HATE FOR SOUTH AFRICA.

[Athensfan]

Mo Rush, on 11 August 2010 - 04:23 AM, said:

Why would an African Olympics in South Africa fall short? premature...?

If South Africa does get to host at some stage it will become a national priority like all other previous events and I have no doubt it would be a success if an appropriate ticketing strategy is formulated.

Mo -- for starters, I'd really love to see the Games in Africa. Take that as a given.

Here's a parallel scenario: some wanted to send the 1996 Games to Athens, but Athens clearly was not ready. Had the IOC gone with sentiment rather than practical reality, a 1996 Athens Games could have been an embarrassment to both the host and the IOC. (As it turned out, Atlanta didn't exactly do a bang up job, but I digress....)

Similarly, South Africa should get the Games when they are really ready. If the IOC gives the Games to South Africa (or Istanbul or Delhi or any number of other places) before they are able to comfortably satisfy the technical requirements of staging an Olympics, the Games could be an embarrassment. Nobody wants to see Games that make Africa look bad. We all want to see African Games that are a huge success.

I don't know enough about your country to know if they will be ready for 2020 or not. This is something that they must prove if they enter the race. Neither SA nor the IOC can afford to get swept up in sentiment over this one.

[FYI]

Comparing South Africa to Athens (1996) is apples & oranges.

Granted, the World Cup is not the Olympics, but it is a very clear & good indicator of South Africa's capabilities. Not to mention all the other international sporting events that the country has hosted.

Besides, going to Africa would always be a "sentimental" vote, regardless of how capable the bid is. Just like it was going to Athens for 2004, Beijing for 2008, Sochi for 2014 & Rio for 2016. An African vote wouldn't be any different.

[Rafa]

There are perhaps a handful of cities that are "ready" and even in those cases infrastructure like an OV and/or MV is likely to be required in the absence of freely available University Residences.

The issue is not whether South Africa can deliver the venues, accommodation, transport, safety etc. Time and time again South Africa has delivered, and the Olympic Games would be no different.

I'm always open to discuss a South African Olympics or Cape Town in the technical context you speak of, so fire away.

One of the major risks is Accommodation, which is partially mitigated by the supply of University Residences in Cape Town along with the option of cruise ships.
This risk on the other hand is potentially one of the greatest legacies given the housing backlog in Cape Town.
Rio's 25,000 room media villages across the city, while a large risk, present a great legacy, the alternative being an oversupply of hotels.

The second is ticketing and attendance. Without a proper ticketing strategy venues will be empty. It will require an entirely new approach with the focus being on breadth not depth, i.e. the coverage. Can tickets be made available widely. Young sports people given free tickets. Reduced "student" ticket prices. A large government subsidy for certain devleopment goals. etc.

Cape Town is compact. There are links between sites and venues in terms of rail or bus. The airport already has a planned future expansion beyond the World Cup expansion, with an existing bus link to be supplemented by a rail link soon.

At peak during the WC, the Central City, a vital component if Cape Town ever bids, had hundreds of thousands in this area, going to the match and in the surrounds.