Stu Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 England's football team could represent Great Britain at the 2012 Olympics, following agreement from the other home nations not to block the idea. A joint letter has been sent to Fifa, which has yet to ratify the proposal, saying that Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales would have no involvement, but it goes on to say they would not prevent England from fielding a team. Scottish FA spokesman Rob Shorthouse said: "I think the English are going to go it alone." LINK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tower Bridge Fox Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 England's football team could represent Great Britain at the 2012 Olympics, following agreement from the other home nations not to block the idea. A joint letter has been sent to Fifa, which has yet to ratify the proposal, saying that Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales would have no involvement, but it goes on to say they would not prevent England from fielding a team. Scottish FA spokesman Rob Shorthouse said: "I think the English are going to go it alone." LINK I think we will in the end have a team with players from England Scotland and wales Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob2012 Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 As good news as we could have hoped for in this sorry saga. It says a lot about the powers-that-be in FIFA and the other home nations' associations that football, unlike virtually every other sport that normally has seperate teams, cannot work out a way of having a one off GB team for the Olympics. Very sad indeed. It shouldn't be that difficult and it never should have become a political football, if you'll pardon the pun. But sod them all. It saves the arguments about whether we should weight the team so a few Northern Irish or Scottish players get a chance and also gives us (by which I mean the English) an opportunity to see our youngsters in action. I feel sorry for the young non-English British players who might have had a chance, but they know who to blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4gamesandcounting Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 A good news story. Wonder who will manage and how the selection process will work. It's under 23s with two exceptions if I remember correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrianme17 Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 A good news story. Wonder who will manage and how the selection process will work. It's under 23s with two exceptions if I remember correct. i honestly don't see the point of football in the olympics full-stop - same with tennis! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Torch Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 i honestly don't see the point of football in the olympics full-stop - same with tennis! I feel the same about Softball, Baseball, Handball and Synchro Swimming. ZZZzzzzzzzzzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4gamesandcounting Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 Why handball? It is huge all over Europe - and unlike baseball, tennis, football etc it is the pinnacle of the sport - much like Hockey. I could add Basketball to the list of sports to drop... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob2012 Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 That's not the point. Football's there whether you think it should be or not and it is the biggest sport in the country. To not enter a team because of politics (sporting or otherwise) would have been wrong. We've got a compromise solution now which, although nowhere near perfect, means this will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob2012 Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 Wonder who will manage and how the selection process will work. Whoever England's U-21 coach at the time is I'd imagine. With a few exceptions that's what this team will be so we might as well move the whole setup across and just change the kits and the team name for this one tournament. We've got our team there in a messy way, there's no point trumpeting this compromise like it's a massive acheivement by trying to get a top Premier League manager to manage England U-23s - that would be slightly embarrassing in all honesty. If Stewart Pearce is still managing the England U-21s in three years, he'll be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Tickle Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 A footnote on the story that explains how pathetic the Scottish are. Hampden set to miss out on British matches after fan boycott June 3 - Plans for Britain to open the Olympic football tournament in 2012 at Hampden Park are set be scrapped after Scottish fans said that they would boycott any matches involving team made up of English players. The Tartan Army, Scotland's supporters club, are angry at the deal struck by the Football Associations of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland for them to turn a blind eye to Britain competing in the men and women's tournaments as long as they do not select players from those countries. The three countries all fear that if they are involved it could jeopardise their independence and the right to compete in events like the World Cup and European Championships. Hamish Husband, the spokesman for the Association of Tartan Army Clubs, said that they would refuse to support any British team. That is certain to scupper any plans that London 2012 had to have Britain play their opening match at Hampden Park in Glasgow, which is one of a number of venues across the country scheduled to host matches during the Olympics. Husband said: "Scotland supporters won't be watching these games, so we won't be cheering on Team GB. "Our attitude is going to be one of passionate indifference. Olympic football has never exactly been electrifying." Tartan Army clubs up and down Scotland had been drafted in by the SFA to help oppose plans for a single British team representing all four home nations. Husband said he felt the SFA's compromise was "unforgivable". He said: "They have come under an avalanche of political pressure both from [Prime Minister] Gordon Brown and from some international football authorities. "But we have always been passionately against a Team GB. "The way we look at it, Team GB is bad for supporters of all the home nations, including England. "If there had been a Team GB back in the 1960s, England fans would never have seen Bobby Charlton pull on a white English shirt. "Your national football loyalties are all about the country you come from. "Nobody would ever get excited about a British side in the Olympics. "I would never support a Team GB. "If there was a British team up against Brazil and the British team was made up of 11 Scots I would still support Brazil." The last point sums them up really, how pathetic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob2012 Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 Really, how could I be so stupid to think that this announcement would be the end of the matter? Of course some cantankerous Scots are never going to let this drop and are determined to make mountains from molehills wherever they find them. How sad it that? If that's how all Scots feel and not just this one miserable git, then sod them all. I really hope it's not though (and I hope the Scottish members here will tell me that's the case and restore my faith). If the worst comes to the worst and the Scottish are going to jeopordise their chance at hosting football in 2012 we're better off without their "support" to be honest. I'd much rather see another big Premier League stadium hosting anyway than Hampden, which is an ok stadium but whose inclusion will probably mean a better stadium in England missing out (which would normally be fair enough as Scotland should host a few games if they want to). Two stadiums in Manchester perhaps or an extra London ground would work. I'd much rather Scotland was involved but if they don't want to be and want to try to make things difficult our best bet is to wash our hands of them and show just how easily we can do without their national stadium. Simples. Other sports (and their fans) who normally compete as separate countries don't seem to mind this compromise once every four years or act as if it's going to completely destroy their identity, their nation, and their culture. Why are Scottish football fans (or at least the sad git in the article above) any different? Personally, I'd put it down to attention seeking and an inferiority complex on the part of those particular people. I don't think we need to read anything more into it than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tower Bridge Fox Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 I know I’ve said this before but if it was a Scottish city Hosting the Olympics for the UK , would this still be the case, And I hat to say this but football fans have often not been the best ambassadors for the game. Or acted in its interests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob2012 Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 And I hat to say this but football fans have often not been the best ambassadors for the game. No, but those who aren't have mostly been drunken idiots or hooligans. I'd expect better from the spokesman for the Association of Tartan Army Supporters than to threaten to leave a black-mark the nation's party in 2012 because of what is essentially a complete non-issue. I hope most Scots who hear his words are embarrassed by him. This for example is cringeworthy: "If there had been a Team GB back in the 1960s, England fans would never have seen Bobby Charlton pull on a white English shirt." Let's reword that to make it relevent to what's actually happening: "If there had been a Team GB in the 1964 Olympics, like there was in 1960 and in the four previous games, AND the post 1992 rules of only under 23s playing had applied, England fans would never have seen Bobby Charlton pull on a white English shirt." Call me slightly optimistic if you will, but I don't think an U-23 tournament in '64 would have made the slightest bit of difference to the '66 world cup team or their chances. See how silly his stance and his argument are now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Tickle Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 My personal opinion is still play matches in Scotland. Make sure they are the early stages with countrys playing that people would least want to see, theres no way after this they should get any high profile matches. Then matches are spread all over the nations but all the plum matches are in England. They had their chance and they've blown it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob2012 Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 I disagree. If this guy is shown to be voicing a minority point of view London 2012 should get Scotland involved as much as they can. If his view is widepread, better to cut their losses completely than give Hampden a few smaller games. Give the games to cities and people who want them; I hope that includes the Scots but if it doesn't I won't give a seconds thought to Hampden not being a venue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox334 Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 My view on the mater is that if Scotland wants a national team, they should become a f*****g country. Enough of this Englang, Scotland, Wales and N.I. having different national teams bull! You know what I find to be the most tragic in all of this (and I bet the Tatar army guys would scorn at it...)? Its that England's national team qualified for Beijing (and the Olympic tournament isn't second rated for them, it IS the pinnacle of the sport), but couldn't compete because of something that could come up in only one sport and one country: Football and Great Britain... And I am sorry, but until further notice if you are Scottish that means you are first and foremost British. If you don't like that, then get your own country, it isn't that hard... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox334 Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 You know what I find to be the most tragic in all of this (and I bet the Tatar army guys would scorn at it...)? Its that England's national team qualified for Beijing (and the Olympic tournament isn't second rated for them, it IS the pinnacle of the sport), but couldn't compete because of something that could come up in only one sport and one country: Football and Great Britain... I hate not being able to edit... I meant to say England's women's national team. Sorry for the confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob2012 Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 My view on the mater is that if Scotland wants a national team, they should become a f*****g country. Enough of this Englang, Scotland, Wales and N.I. having different national teams bull! Not going to happen and nor should it. The first international was between England and Scotland and that distinction has to stay. The countries have separate leagues and different footballing histories. In the sport of football they are different countries, that's all that matters. But for a one off competition like the Olympics there's no reason why they shouldn't come together as GB with Wales and NI as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Tickle Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 I think the real issue is they wouldn't have any decent players and so wouldn't get in the team anyway. Deep fried mars bar and a can of special brew anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakydoky Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Hello, new poster here to the Gamesbid forums. This topic is obviously very touchy to a lot of posters. What I find absolutely disgraceful is that English posters, in trying to make a point are resorting to making prejudiced remarks against Scottish people. Example: poster Davepodmore said: ".... the real issue is they wouldn't have any decent players and so wouldn't get in the team anyway. Deep fried mars bar and a can of special brew anyone"? How disgusting is that comment. I would hope that no English person would defend such a statement. Trying to mock Scottish people by saying they are not good enough and mocking stereotyped Scottish food to make Scottish people seem 'uncultured' is wrong. Imagine if English people were condascendingly mocked or black people were mocked or asian people were mocked in a similar manner - All the English posters would be up in arms. Further, saying England should get all the good games and that Hampden park is getting football matches at the expense of the 'superior' English grounds is not just the remark of ignorance but defies any logic. Hampden is the national ground of the joint oldest football team in the world -Scotland, and is a UEFA 5 star rated stadium(the highest ranking a stadium can get). Oh, and the Olympic games, contrary to what many English posters think, is not being held exclusively by England but rather by 'Britain'- therefore the staging can incorporate all parts of the isles. Hence the reason why Millenium stadium in Cardiff is holding a match. Also, this topic isn't about football anymore as if it were being discussed in light of this then Scotland's rejection of TEAM GB would be understood. Fifa president Blatt supported Scotland's decision not to be part of Team GB. Scotland's football team has been an autonomous team since the 19th century and Scotland have never been part of a collective team GB - doing so would jeopardise their status individually. Further, both northern Ireland and Wales are taking the exact same stance as as Scotland yet only Scottish people are being maligned and rudely spoken of. Also the poster Rob seems to display a total condensation for "cantankerous Scots" and thinks the English should ""sod them". Why on a topic of the Olympic games and football must Scottish people be rudely spoken to like that. Imagine if Scottish people were calling English people "arrogant English twats" and saying "sod them" - that would be disgusting and I am sure not tolerated by the posters on here. Fox334 said: "My view on the mater is that if Scotland wants a national team, they should become a f*****g country". How absolutely disgraceful to be so rude. in football terms Scotland is seen as an individual country. Further, I sense your English nationalism is really the cause of such a distasteful and naive remark. Little old ' Scotland' is a "f*****g" country as you put it and one which proportionatly is contributing as much or more to the staging of the Olympic games than England is. Almost £200 million has been taking from Scotland's sports funds to fund the games in England. Scotland, being less than 10% the population of England and not actually 'hosting' the games is actually supporting the games substantially but of course little is ever reported of that. Yet when Scotland uphold their football status as exhalted by FIFA, they are maligned and mocked. Yeah, that makes sense. Just think about things from both sides - Scotland, by law has a right to maintain it's footballing sovereignty and it is doing so ( where's the problem then?). You may not like that decision but to mock Scottish people as you have been doing is really just your own English nationalism venting it's hatred of Scotland. How sad of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakydoky Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Poster Rob wrote: "If that's how all Scots feel and not just this one miserable git, then sod them all. I really hope it's not though (and I hope the Scottish members here will tell me that's the case and restore my faith)" This was wrote in reference to a comment a Scottish person had made. The comment obviously forced poor Rob to generalise about Scottish people as he has lost his "faith" in Scottish people. Surely basing a general opinion on one person's comment is an illogical fallacy? Rob, can you please explain why Scottish people have to be sub-servant to you and help restore your faith in Scottish people? So basically, because you don't like Scotland standing up for it's FIFA sanctioned rights, you have generalised a kind of disdain for all Scottish people and are waiting for Scottish members to make you like us again. Imagine if I disagreed with a comment or statement or political stance the English football team made or a supporter made - by your same logic I should dislike all of England and it's people and wait for an English person to "restore my faith" in English people. How utterly arrogant! Can I ask? Would you like Scotland to give up it's FIFA sanctioned and supported rights and become part of team GB? Would you then be happy if Scotland's sovereign, individual football team status was jeopardise because of it because that is something which is likely?. The football teams of the United Kingdom are all individual - N.Ireland, Scotland, Wales and England since their conception - these teams can't just become one GB team when it suits them. By that same standard European football teams can all have their individual football teams but when it suits them come together to form a super E.U team. I wish these forums were free from such thinly veiled prejudice as many posters are exhibiting against Scottish people here. Sadly, a topic on football has forced many English posters to abandon reason and to mock Scottish people- the deep fired mars bar comment, Scotland not a country, Scottish people wouldn't make the team etc.. I wouldn't stand for people mocking others personally - (all nationalities) and even if I disagreed with a comment or political idea I would engage in intelligent dialogue. Imagine if some of the things that have been said or implied about Scotland were labelled at English persons - would you like it? You may feel I am overreacting but I wish I could post on a public forum free from prejudice and discuss things related to the greatest cultural event on Earth - the Olympics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox334 Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 How absolutely disgraceful to be so rude. in football terms Scotland is seen as an individual country. Further, I sense your English nationalism is really the cause of such a distasteful and naive remark. Little old ' Scotland' is a "f*****g" country as you put it and one which proportionatly is contributing as much or more to the staging of the Olympic games than England is. Almost £200 million has been taking from Scotland's sports funds to fund the games in England. Scotland, being less than 10% the population of England and not actually 'hosting' the games is actually supporting the games substantially but of course little is ever reported of that. Yet when Scotland uphold their football status as exhalted by FIFA, they are maligned and mocked. Yeah, that makes sense. I know that it might be surprising considering my post, but I have absolutely no interest in "English nationalism". Being a French-Canadian from Christian lineage, the odds of me having any family link to England are rather slim. I am just rather annoyed by this whole situation... There is just so much stubbornness involved. I personally would see it as no loss if the four home nations would be forced to compete together, although thats probably not a popular opinion on these boards... But thats not even the point. The point is, how would this dispute the national team status of the home nations? This would be very, very easy to work around whit a semblance of collaboration from the four boards and FIFA, but it appears that I will win millions at the lottery before that happens... And again, you know what made me hate this whole situation? England's quarterfinal run at the 2007 FIFA World cup. That placed them in the top 3 from UEFA teams. But guess what? It went to Sweden instead... If foolish pride is too much to give up, fine, but at least keep the women's teams out of this (its not like that many MEN'S football fans would notice anyway...). The Olympics IS there pinnacle, politics, bickering and rivalries have no rights to take that away from them. Just think about things from both sides - Scotland, by law has a right to maintain it's footballing sovereignty and it is doing so ( where's the problem then?). You may not like that decision but to mock Scottish people as you have been doing is really just your own English nationalism venting it's hatred of Scotland. How sad of you. Then why isn't this a problem in every other sports where the "home nations" compete separately? On a side note, I would very highly doubt that the top 18 U23 players from Great Britain are all from England... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakydoky Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 I know that it might be surprising considering my post, but I have absolutely no interest in "English nationalism". Being a French-Canadian from Christian lineage, the odds of me having any family link to England are rather slim. I am just rather annoyed by this whole situation... There is just so much stubbornness involved. I personally would see it as no loss if the four home nations would be forced to compete together, although thats probably not a popular opinion on these boards... But thats not even the point. The point is, how would this dispute the national team status of the home nations? This would be very, very easy to work around whit a semblance of collaboration from the four boards and FIFA, but it appears that I will win millions at the lottery before that happens... And again, you know what made me hate this whole situation? England's quarterfinal run at the 2007 FIFA World cup. That placed them in the top 3 from UEFA teams. But guess what? It went to Sweden instead... If foolish pride is too much to give up, fine, but at least keep the women's teams out of this (its not like that many MEN'S football fans would notice anyway...). The Olympics IS there pinnacle, politics, bickering and rivalries have no rights to take that away from them. Then why isn't this a problem in every other sports where the "home nations" compete separately? On a side note, I would very highly doubt that the top 18 U23 players from Great Britain are all from England... When I mention 'English nationalism' I am referring to a kind on mentality that sees things exclusively from an English perspective. Whether Scotland is being stubborn in this situation is actually irrelevant - by law and supported by FIFA, Scotland has a right to reject Team GB. what you label as Scotland "foolish pride" is nothing of the sort. A team GB has implications for Scottish football which are not entirely positive. Womens football is a different kettle of fish - I disagree that the Olympics is their pinnacle ( womens FIFA world cup is still more prestigous). But the same argument can be extrapolated for the womens game too - the home nations each set up their respective teams along national boundaries so why should a team GB form just to accomodate this desire for one game in one tournament. Sometimes I feel like people want their cake and to eat it to - what I mean is, is that England would never dissolve their sovereign status for the world cup (mens and womens team) as this would compromise their money revenues and force (if a permanent team GB was formed) them to share their money around the whole UK (they would not do this). But Scotland, which is a smaller country, is not funded like English football is but yet is supposed to bow down to demands and form a GB team. There is level of hypocrisy there. England want an Olympic GB team as it would mostly represent them (more players etc). And if the sole reason you want to see a womens team represented is beacuse England is good then that somewhat undermines a team GB - if a united team GB was formed then the rather good English womens team would have other British players in the new team thus changing the teams very essence. Scotland, Wales, N.Ireland and England would no longer have individual teams but becuase England gets a disproportiante amount of funds they would always be at an advantage. Also, can it just be noted that representatives from all corners of the British isles have voiced concerns over a team GB. So why the constant hostility to the Scots. If the teams were founded as team GB then fine but in Britain each home nation has their own respective team and hence, a team GB compromises that position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakydoky Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 . Then why isn't this a problem in every other sports where the "home nations" compete separately? What other sports are you referring to? After football in the UK, the next biggest sport is Rugby Union and that is not an Olympic sport. Comparing other sports to football however is tricky as Britain is immersed in football like no other country on earth - a team GB would dissolve the Scottish, Welsh and N.Irish footballing teams but England would still be in an advantageous position as they form the bulk of the population and get most of the sports allocated funds and have a sponsored premiership by SKY TV which helps fund the development of new English football talent. England would benefit at the expense of the other home nations in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Rols Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 . Then why isn't this a problem in every other sports where the "home nations" compete separately? What other sports are you referring to? After football in the UK, the next biggest sport is Rugby Union and that is not an Olympic sport. Well, I've kept out of this to now, but two points to make on that: * Rugby may not be an Olympic sport YET, but there's a good chance it could well be after October this year. It's certainly campaigning, quite strongly, for inclusion * And one thing Rugby does manage to do is form a combined team, the British Lions, which is a huge touring drawecard whenever the tours are on. The Lions team still doesn't dilute the sovereignity, competitiveness, tradition and rivialry of the individual Home Union teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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