127 replies to this topic

[Misha Bear]

Golan Trevize, on Oct 22 2009, 08:48 AM, said:

On October 20th the head of the Portuguese Football Federation and the head of the Spanish Football Federation submited to FIFA the proposal for an Iberian Bid for the 2018/2022 World Cup. There will be only one bid commitee wich will have it's headquarters in Madrid, on December 4 the bid will have a big showcase in the World Cup 2010 final draw in Cape Town.


The Likely Venues:

Porto - Dragon Stadium - 50 000


Lisbon - Luz Stadium - 65 000


Lisbon - Alvalade Stadium - 50 000


Madrid - Santiago Bernabeu - 82 000


Madrid - La Peineta - 70 000


Barcelona - Camp Nou - 105 000


Valencia - Nou Mestalla - 72 000


Bilbao - New San Mames - 58 000

Seville - Olympic Stadium - 60 000

Zaragoza - San Jose - 43 000

La coruna - Riazor - 40 000

Faro/Loulé - Algarve Stadium - 30 000 + 10 000

So the bid really proposes two cities with two stadiums (Lisbon and Madrid)?

[Troupe]

Misha Bear, on Nov 10 2009, 08:36 PM, said:

So the bid really proposes two cities with two stadiums (Lisbon and Madrid)?

No, there are 24 candidate stadia in Spain, among them two in Madrid, three in Barcelona, and three in Seville. These will be shortlisted later on, and it's not difficult to guess which are the favourites. Portugal needs to include both stadiums in Lisbon, and if it's allowed to propose two cities with two stadiums, it would be logical to include both stadiums in Madrid as their second stadium, La Peineta, will be new and quite big (the Bernabéu is unquestionable, of course). If it's not allowed, there are other possibilities elsewhere.

[gotosy]

Portugal Not Prepared To Invest In Stadiums For World Cup Bid

Feb 12, 2010 3:36:00 PM

Involved in a joint-bid for the World Cups of 2018 and 2022 with neighbouring Spain, Portugal has announced that it will not be investing any additional revenue in stadiums for the competition.

According to the AFP news agency, the Portuguese have excluded the possibility of investing in the modernisation of venues planned to be hosting the event.
...

Portugal most recently hosted Euro 2004. Though it was deemed a great success on a sporting level, many of the venues built for the competition are now little more than white elephants. Some economists have even suggested the most efficient thing to do with Estadio Municipal de Aveiro, which was built at a cost of €62 million, would be to knock it down.

At present the economic climate in the Iberian nation is poor, which is the reason the government is so reticent to invest.

http://goal.com/en/n...s-for-world-cup

[gotosy]

Spanish Sports Minister Blasts Portugal Jeopardizing Joint World Cup Bid

February 12, 2010

(WFI) Spanish sports minister Jaime Lissavetzky says that his Portuguese counterparts do not share Spain’s enthusiasm to host the 2018 World Cup.

In an explosive interview with the Madrid newspaper AS, he said: “I do not see Portugal as a very interested country.
...

Lissavetzky’s comments cast further doubt on an increasingly fragile bid, which has been undermined by repeated suggestions that Spain may ditch its Iberian partner. The campaign has also suffered from poor organization and underfunding.

Although hotly tipped as the European candidate when bidding started last year, the momentum has slipped away from Spain-Portugal.

Funding has been a problem and the bid budget of approximately $10 million is less than half that of England’s and around a quarter of Russia’s.

http://www.worldfoot...y.aspx?id=32997

[LuigiVercotti]

Unfortunately for our Iberian friends I cannot see where the impetus is now for FIFA to think about heading this way for 2018. Unfortunately England appears to have a lock on that year (forget all the equivocation from Sepp Blather...oops, I meant Blatter ...if he said even just once 2018 is going there it's going there). Perhaps the government types in Spain and Portugal can see the writing on the wall, but no matter what these developments have taken a long shot bid and basically put it in the dumpster.

[Keitho]

The dual approach is definitely hurting this bid. Although the bid from the point of view of cities/stadiums/football culture & history is actually quite breathtaking, perhaps Spain should have gone it alone. From a fans viewpoint however, this bid is awesome. The only thing stopping it from being odds-on favourite is the fact that 2 hosts would automatically qualify and to a lesser extent, having 2 host cities with 2 stadiums. Maybe joint bids in the future should see only one automatically qualify. In this case Spain as it comprises about 70% of the bid.

[RobH]

The Iberian bid's stadiums are the best of the European bids but not so good, I'd suggest, that they could potentially be odds on favourites.

I think Spain having hosted in '82 puts it at a disadvantage compared with England and Russia and noises from Blatter about joint bids, especially unnecessary ones, don't make me think this bid would ever be an odds on favourite with FIFA, even if everything was hunky-dory.

This latest news puts an already disadvantaged bid at a further disadvantage. FIFA didn't like dealing with two organising committees for the 2002 world cup and although I believe this bid is avoiding that mistake, early signs of bickering between the nations isn't going to make FIFA warm to them.

However, these nations have strong connections in FIFA, so I'm not ruling out their bid.

[Keitho]

The Spain bid would have been much stronger if it used just 2 stadiums in Portugal. One in Lisbon and one in Porto. Also Portugal should have to qualify like everyone else through the normal group process. If they fail to qualify, it wouldnt have a major impact on the tournament as a 'festival' as they are only providing 2 stadiums. It would still be a 'Spanish' WC. I have also made this point with the England bid, where considering Cardiff/glasgow/Edinburgh might have been a good idea.

Having 2 automatic spots for 2 hosts is a huge minus point. FIFA allocates a certain number (14 ?) places to Europe. this would mean the rest fighting it out for 12 spots. Obviously this is a problem for the Holland /Belgium bid too.

[Cirdan]

Keitho, on 12 February 2010 - 09:30 PM, said:

The dual approach is definitely hurting this bid. Although the bid from the point of view of cities/stadiums/football culture & history is actually quite breathtaking, perhaps Spain should have gone it alone. From a fans viewpoint however, this bid is awesome. The only thing stopping it from being odds-on favourite is the fact that 2 hosts would automatically qualify and to a lesser extent, having 2 host cities with 2 stadiums. Maybe joint bids in the future should see only one automatically qualify. In this case Spain as it comprises about 70% of the bid.

You do know that the English bid includes 2 stadia in Manchester and 3 (!) in London? Plus, Sunderland and Newcastle are basically the same metropolitan area... I also don't think 2 automatic berths should be much of a problem, both have very strong nts and at least Spain is almost certain to qualify anyway. And Spain and Portugal have the same currency, are/will be well connected by rail and there's basically no border control when traveling between the countrys. The biggest problem I see with the dual approach is that it will be lopsided - 4 stadia in Portugal, 8 in Spain, and if 80k seats are required for both opening match and final, neither one could be held in Portugal.

[LuigiVercotti]

Cirdan, on 21 February 2010 - 06:00 PM, said:

You do know that the English bid includes 2 stadia in Manchester and 3 (!) in London? Plus, Sunderland and Newcastle are basically the same metropolitan area... I also don't think 2 automatic berths should be much of a problem, both have very strong nts and at least Spain is almost certain to qualify anyway. And Spain and Portugal have the same currency, are/will be well connected by rail and there's basically no border control when traveling between the countrys. The biggest problem I see with the dual approach is that it will be lopsided - 4 stadia in Portugal, 8 in Spain, and if 80k seats are required for both opening match and final, neither one could be held in Portugal.

The issue for FIFA won't be whether or not border control, currency and transport problems aren't as big as they may be if we were talking about (hypothetically) a joint US/Canadian bid or English/Franech bid. It's about having to deal with two FAs, each with their own agendas. FIFA has been down that path with the 2002 WC and doesn't give any indication it would welcome dealing with two separate football associations again in such a context. They'll leave it up to UEFA for the European championships, and rely on single country/association bids.

Plus, if you were one of the 15 voters in the FIFA boardroom and there is a chance because of the extra place reserved for Portugal and Spain at the WC qualification that your team will miss out you'll vote for them? Nope...ain't gonna happen.