55 replies to this topic

[jim jones]

roltel, on Apr 6 2006, 02:16 AM, said:

Why would he have specifically asked a country not to bid? That seems wrong to me. The more competition the better I say.</font>
<font color='#000000'>I'm not sure of the full details _ I only vaguely remember it _ but NZOlympic can fill you in fully. But basically, when NZ was pondering a bid for 2006/2010?, while on a visit to NZ Rogge made some comment on the fact that it would be difficult for a southern country to win a winter games.
As I said, I have a few theories that would minimise the issues that are always brought up by northerners whenever the issue of a southern WOGs comes up _ that it would be out of season, it would be strange to watch winter events in (northern) summer, and that NZ doesn't have a heritage of strong and sustained winter sports success. Basically, I'd advocate that a southern WOG could be held in late September-October _ still ski season down south, autumn/fall up north, the FIFA WC of the same year would be well over and it would be well into the US TV ratings season. Also, a full series of FIS and other federation lead-up events could be held in Australia, Chile, Argentina and NZ in the southern winter leading up to the games.
As for sports success _ well, that just takes time, will and a bit of government support. Anyway, the incentive of hosting a winter games and the facilities that would be built around it (like a bobsled run) would give southern countries the perfect facilities to help lift their game.</font>

I think Roltel you run into the same problem with American TV in September-October for a Southern Hemisphere Winter Games as you did with Doha 2016 presenting a bid outside the July-August Window. It would be a ratings disaster in America much like Sydney 2000 was with a September staging of those games. This is Why the IOC threw out Doha even with a better evaluation score then Rio de Janeiro. Words from Dick Embersol to Juan Antonio at the end of Sydney 2000 had Beijing change from a Fall proposed games to an August games for 2008.

September you have School years starting in North America with the TV sets going off for the kids early. You have the National Football League dominating the Airwaves in America for Sports interest in September with the start of that season. Then you have your TV season starting for Variety, Sitcoms and Series' of Different types at that time as well. In October you have Major League Baseball ending the season with the playoffs and World Series and then you have the National Basketball Association and National Hockey League starting up their regular seasons. You would have no pro-players for Ice Hockey making their way to play in New Zealand in September or October simply because they are in Training Camp in September preparing for the start of the season in October. So not only do you have fewer viewers and more choices to watch in September October for the Olympics to Compete with you also have your Primary Team sport for the Winter Games without the World's Best . Whether it is Finland, Sweden, Russia , Canada , the US all the best ice hockey players make their livings in the National Hockey League.

New Zealand hosting the Winter Games will never happen very simply. You might see the possibility of a southern Hemisphere winter games only in Chile or Argentina because at least competition would not be broadcast live at 3 am New York Time in the morning unlike New Zealand or Australia. The Winter Sports tradition is just not there yet and it is unlikely really to go beyond short track, freestyle skiing and snowboarding for Australia or New Zealand. There is no compelling reason to build bobsled runs or indoor long track ovals in the southern hemisphere.
Jim Jones

[jim jones]

The entire question is far fetched really. You are not going to have any desire by the National Hockey League to adjust the Schedule to Fly players to a place that they have probably never had even an exhibition game in or even the interest to. June, July and and August for the southern Hemisphere winter is the off season for the pro ice hockey players after an eight month season . September they are in training camp with exhibition games and then the season starts in October. One of the largest tv draws for the winter games for North America is indeed Ice hockey and without the best people on the Ice no one will watch in the market that pays for most for TV rights America. Then there is a possible September /October Hosting which Roltel talked about . That is as inviting to NBC Tv or any American Network as throwing away a billion dollars. NBC got slaughtered for their investment for the broadcast of the Sydney 2000 games which were held in September.

Dick Embersol of NBC explained it to Jacques Rogge later nice well . School in North America Starts in September and so does National Football League . You have the Tv sets for Teenaged girls that would watch Gymnastics or Figure Skating go black for the first few weeks of the Fall as they are busy with a new school year. This is why Beijing changed their hosting plans for their bid to August instead of the Fall of 2008. Bidding to Host outside the July August time period for the summer games is what got Doha out of the 2016 bid competition.
Then there is the issue of Timezones . Live Coverage would be what time in New York City for a New Zealand winter games ? 1 am to 10 am eastern standard time ? Tape Delay for Sydney 2000 also helped create a huge ratings loss for the largest private funder of the games NBC simply because of the Internet presence in this day and age . Basically anyone into sports would have watched Football Games earlier in the day and gone to bed with their fill of sports. October it does not get better with the end of the Major League Baseball Season , the start of National Basketball Association Play and the start of the National Hockey League . Then you have NASCAR's season coming to a close as well with a race every weekend. NBC versus Fox , ABC or CBS with those Sports properties gets creamed with the Olympics which is a lightweight for Brand loyalty in NA.

January and February are probably the only times to host the winter games because the Ice Hockey and Basketball are mid season , Nascar starts up in February and the NFL has ended with the Superbowl end of January. It is not like September were on a Sunday and some Saturdays the Channel surfing from Football Game to football games occurs.

The answer is simply NO. there will never be a games in New Zealand and the only possible place for a Southern Hemisphere Winter Games is South America. Atleast the Time Zones are have the possibility of Prime time Viewing in the Eastern Seaboard Region of America where 60 percent of TV revenues come from for an Olympics.

jim jones

[stevie]

It is 12:30pm in NZ which would make it 8:30pm in NYC, 7:30pm in Chicago and 5:30pm in LA. Mid-day competition here would be broadcasted live prime time in north america.

Edited by stevie, 26 April 2009 - 07:40 PM.

[micheal_warren]

stevie, on Apr 27 2009, 12:37 PM, said:

It is 12:30pm in NZ which would make it 8:30pm in NYC, 7:30pm in Chicago and 5:30pm in LA. Mid-day competition here would be broadcasted live prime time in north america.

Exactly you could have finals at 12:30 pm and it would be perfect timing for much of north america!!! Jim your argument falls over on this one!!!

[dr_jazz]

barrack, on Apr 5 2006, 10:50 AM, said:

<font color='#000000'>I will be honest, I didn't read the entirety of your post, but I do think that New Zealand could host a Winter Games. Maybe not now, maybe not soon, but within the next 20 years maybe? I'm pretty sure that it would have to be in Christchurch on the South Island. I think that anything on the North Island would be too temperate.

Christchurch, though not the biggest city, is still bigger than past Winter Olympic cities. It has international recognition, at least among the English-speaking countries (I can't speak on behalf of other cultures though.)

In general though, I am all about trying to get a Winter Games to the Southern Hemisphere.</font>

Me too!! I'm a huge fan of the idea of a Down Under winter games, particularly in NZ. We have discussed this topic in this forum before and it turns out that having a winter games during the Northern Hemisphere summer (when most of the human population belongs) will always be a challenging obsticle to overcome. Yes I agree that a Down Under winter games won't be any time soon but I do agree that NZ could host a WOG within the next 20 years maybe; i.e. 2026 or 2030 may be more suitable. As an Australian (AUS will never host a WOG at least not during my life time unless pigs fly) I would back up for any WOG bid for New Zealand any damn day.

I must say in terms of somewhere on the North Island being the WOG host? Most definatley not! Yes the climate is way too temperate yet there is no city on the north island close enough to be the host city. If NZ is to host, it would definatley have to be on the South Island without any exceptions. I know there are exeptions to the WOG as opposed to the Summer games of extenting some events outside the host city to find more snow, but remember as for an OG as opposed to a single world sporting event such as the soccer and rugby world cups, the venue is primarily about one city in a nation, not the general country area itself. So to get to the point here, if the winter games were ever come to Australasia, the only cities/towns that could host are Christchirch, Queenstown or Dunedin. But at the end of the day if NZ does host a winter games the host city would have to be Christchurch, unless the population of Queenstown increases significantly within the next couple of decades, making the town the first perfernce to host more likely without needing Christchurch.

[Alexjc]

It's great that the WOGs are wanted to be hosted by New Zealand (because it would require everyone here to contribute...), problem is - at the moment we're kind of broke. . We got no money to spend on 'extra's' just now. Infrastructure projects have to take MAIN priority during this reccession. And this will be NZ's drive for the next five years at least....But let's dream -

North Island

Only one mountain can host this event. Mt Ruapehu. The nearest decent airport is at Taupo. Rotorua and Hamilton still a two to three hour drive away, Auckland four. The start of the Ski season can have up to a five week window!!. Really just a weekender's play thing. Not really much chance.

South Island

South Canterbury and Lakes District are the true home of New Zealand's winter sports. As mentioned, you really can't do the Olympics without Queenstown. Christchurch would be host city but a 1994 styled event would be needed. Mt Hutt can't do it alone. To make Queenstown the host would work but I think we would have to agree that Christchurch is a better fit. Both centres have good airports but Christchurch can handle up to A380 while Queenstown up to A320.
However Lakes District is surrounded by other airports within a two hour drive that can handle the B787 (Invercargill and Dunedin).

I'd be amazed if the NZ Government endorsed a bid attempt for 2018, I reckon a 2022 bid sounds better. It would give the region a chance to prepair...

...AND to get NZ's Winter Olympic athletes a chance to build up talent and depth. (Which, sadly, fell away during the mid nineties reccession).